shotgun laws bound to be tightend because of 1 man

[RC45]

It is truly sad that the media have demonised guns and gun ownership I am sure some of you,myself included can remember carrying a gun unsleved to permission and no one batted an eyelid yet now you would have swat descending on you.

One of the biggest problems is that we have hidden for too long we should be out promoting our sport I mean we have some of the worlds most successful shooters in the uk yet who knows that mick gault is the most successful common wealth medal winner ever 15 medals all for shooting.

 

 

I have said for years, we should teach our kids, the art of shooting. Instead of try, most people knock it, because they are scared of peoples opinions. We need to take our SPORT into schools. I understand there is a funding problem, but ALL sporting associations should get involved, instead of fighting each other. I am sorry to say it, BASC need to tackle this problem, as the others are not up to it. (this is not a"knock BASC" statement) I just think they are the only people capable to organise such a thing.

 

Maybe Pigeonwatch can help. I know I would be interested in helping.

 

Most people scoff getting qualifications, but I think it maybe the only option.

 

Any thoughts???

 

Phil

 

P.S. The USA has a huge following for firearms, the NRA spends millions promoting and protecting shooters rights. I challenge ALL those that represent shooting, to get together, rather than fight between each other.

[bicykillgaz]

i personally don't see a need to change anything, there has only been 3 tragic incidents (that i'm aware of please correct me if i'm wrong) involving legally owned guns and any change is purely knee jerk, we have some of the tightest laws and regs in the world its just a tragic thing that couldn't have been prevented, there are hundreds of people killed a year by drink drivers yet no one would ever contemplate getting rid of cars or banning alcohol, its a similar situation to the banning of selling replica samurai swords because of knife crime most people are stabbed with kitchen knifes are we gonna ban them?

 

the bloke had a breakdown and not much could have changed this unfortunately, if he didn't have guns he'd of got a golf club, knife or something else and although the numbers of people harmed would have been a lot less people still would have died.

 

i don't mean to seem cold my heart really goes out to all those poor families and i hope they can all make it through this difficult time, but also think any decision made needs to be a well informed one not one swayed by public hysteria and ill informed reporters on the news!

[RC45]

i personally don't see a need to change anything, there has only been 3 tragic incidents (that i'm aware of please correct me if i'm wrong) involving legally owned guns and any change is purely knee jerk, we have some of the tightest laws and regs in the world its just a tragic thing that couldn't have been prevented, there are hundreds of people killed a year by drink drivers yet no one would ever contemplate getting rid of cars or banning alcohol, its a similar situation to the banning of selling replica samurai swords because of knife crime most people are stabbed with kitchen knifes are we gonna ban them?

 

the bloke had a breakdown and not much could have changed this unfortunately, if he didn't have guns he'd of got a golf club, knife or something else and although the numbers of people harmed would have been a lot less people still would have died.

 

i don't mean to seem cold my heart really goes out to all those poor families and i hope they can all make it through this difficult time, but also think any decision made needs to be a well informed one not one swayed by public hysteria and ill informed reporters on the news!

 

 

Too simplistic, we have too many enemies now. We need to act before it's too late, even if it is to make our associations work more closely together.

 

[claypop]

i personally don't see a need to change anything, there has only been 3 tragic incidents (that i'm aware of please correct me if i'm wrong) involving legally owned guns and any change is purely knee jerk, we have some of the tightest laws and regs in the world its just a tragic thing that couldn't have been prevented, there are hundreds of people killed a year by drink drivers yet no one would ever contemplate getting rid of cars or banning alcohol, its a similar situation to the banning of selling replica samurai swords because of knife crime most people are stabbed with kitchen knifes are we gonna ban them?

 

the bloke had a breakdown and not much could have changed this unfortunately, if he didn't have guns he'd of got a golf club, knife or something else and although the numbers of people harmed would have been a lot less people still would have died.

 

i don't mean to seem cold my heart really goes out to all those poor families and i hope they can all make it through this difficult time, but also think any decision made needs to be a well informed one not one swayed by public hysteria and ill informed reporters on the news!

 

Agree with all points

[David BASC]

Hi,

 

BASC already have an active schools programme, all be it limited by resources, but we aim to get as many schools and school children involved. Its been running for a few years now.

 

However, as you can imagine, not all schools wil welcome us with open arms!

 

I am sure some of the other orgs do as well - the CA have started a schools project for example - but i guess that will be a bit more 'broad brush' than just shooting

 

David

[Albertan_J]

I have said for years, we should teach our kids, the art of shooting. Instead of try, most people knock it, because they are scared of peoples opinions. We need to take our SPORT into schools. I understand there is a funding problem, but ALL sporting associations should get involved, instead of fighting each other. I am sorry to say it, BASC need to tackle this problem, as the others are not up to it. (this is not a"knock BASC" statement) I just think they are the only people capable to organise such a thing.

 

Maybe Pigeonwatch can help. I know I would be interested in helping.

 

Most people scoff getting qualifications, but I think it maybe the only option.

 

Any thoughts???

 

Phil

 

P.S. The USA has a huge following for firearms, the NRA spends millions promoting and protecting shooters rights. I challenge ALL those that represent shooting, to get together, rather than fight between each other.

 

 

We had a course at school called Outdoor Education where we were taught various outdoor pursuits including the safe use of firearms for hunting and outdoor survival skills. Then again I'm from western canada where hunting is pretty normal and accepted with there being almost no stigma to owning a gun as there seems to be in the UK.

[Billy.]

Look at Switzerland. They have the most guns per person in the world. Yet they have the lowest gun crime rate in the world

 

People are taught to use a gun during the mandatory 1 year of armed service, which teaches them about the respect that's needed for firearms.

 

However if someone 'snaps' there's nothing you can do if they're intent on gunning people down, but in this case, he could have just as easily mounted the kerb in the highstreet and started mowing down pedestrians.... You can't ban everything.

[DJLeslie]

i personally don't see a need to change anything, there has only been 3 tragic incidents (that i'm aware of please correct me if i'm wrong) involving legally owned guns and any change is purely knee jerk, we have some of the tightest laws and regs in the world its just a tragic thing that couldn't have been prevented, there are hundreds of people killed a year by drink drivers yet no one would ever contemplate getting rid of cars or banning alcohol, its a similar situation to the banning of selling replica samurai swords because of knife crime most people are stabbed with kitchen knifes are we gonna ban them?

 

the bloke had a breakdown and not much could have changed this unfortunately, if he didn't have guns he'd of got a golf club, knife or something else and although the numbers of people harmed would have been a lot less people still would have died.

 

i don't mean to seem cold my heart really goes out to all those poor families and i hope they can all make it through this difficult time, but also think any decision made needs to be a well informed one not one swayed by public hysteria and ill informed reporters on the news!

 

 

Well said.

 

Was there not a guy in essex or somewhere last year who went nuts and shot his wife, his daughter,

the family pets, his wifes horses and torched the house and then shot himself?

[KPV4]

Yes, but the incident wasn't essex it was on the Wales/Shropshire border in village called Maesbrook, not far from Oswestry. The guy was a businessman with a large house expensive cars, and his daughter in private school etc and he was being chased by the baliffs due to massive debts from his company, the baliffs were due on his doorstep the day after the shootings took place, his family knew nothing if his money troubles.

[Bazooka Joe]

Shooting Bud had the FEO around the other day for the renewal of his S/C...crack was they are thinking of renewing every 3yrs, instead of 5yrs,

 

Also spot checks are on the cards.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Bazooka Joe

[Vipa]

Shooting Bud had the FEO around the other day for the renewal of his S/C...crack was they are thinking of renewing every 3yrs, instead of 5yrs,

 

Also spot checks are on the cards.

 

At the end of the day that is just speculation, it's not up to Plod what rules are imposed, it's up to Parliament. 3 yearly renewals is just going back to what it used to be so no great shakes there and as for spot checks..... when I was pistol shooting in Lancashire the firearms boys (there were 2 of them at the time) used to turn up on my doorstep at least once a month begging tea and biccies, we used to have a good laugh. My mate who came under Greater Manchester had the same thing, the guys used to turn up unanounced for a coffee and a natter quite regularly.

 

The difference between then and now is that back then, they were interested shooters just like us, they were considered mates and whilst I'm sure, if they spotted anything they weren't happy about when they came round, action would be taken, that's not what they came round for (if you know what I mean,) We were all part of the same friendly fraternity, they just happened to drive a squad car!

 

Everything changed after Dunblaine, far more than Hungerford. Firearms owners of any type were seen as deviants rather than the 'proven' upstanding citizens that the vast majority of us are. All down to the media in reality!

[the running man]

Shooting Bud had the FEO around the other day for the renewal of his S/C...crack was they are thinking of renewing every 3yrs, instead of 5yrs,

 

Also spot checks are on the cards.

I always thought spot checks were always on the cards? Wat I mean is I thought they could come round anytime and check all was where it was suppossed to be.,tri annual renewal,well if they want to create more work for themselves then I've no problems with that.

[Bazooka Joe]

At the end of the day that is just speculation, it's not up to Plod what rules are imposed, it's up to Parliament. 3 yearly renewals is just going back to what it used to be so no great shakes there and as for spot checks.

 

True....this is just a new FEO, he's taken over from the dodgy one that up in the courts at the moment, so it could have being in a briefing he had before Cumbria.

 

All the years I've being shooting I've never had a spot check....maybe a new thread on who has, would be interesting,

[al4x]

I've had very short notice before on a few occasions but might just be my FEO trying to squeeze in more apointments while in the area. Had him call 8am to say i'm passing and can check the cabinet when I had moved in 20 mins. Personally its a good thing if it can pick up people who get lax round their gun security. If you play by the book you have nothing to fear yet there are still farmers I know who will leave a gun in their farm truck overnight which is just a problem waiting to happen. 3 yearly renewals would be a nightmare for all concerned as they can't cope with 5 yearly ones at the moment

[the running man]

I've had very short notice before on a few occasions but might just be my FEO trying to squeeze in more apointments while in the area. Had him call 8am to say i'm passing and can check the cabinet when I had moved in 20 mins. Personally its a good thing if it can pick up people who get lax round their gun security. If you play by the book you have nothing to fear yet there are still farmers I know who will leave a gun in their farm truck overnight which is just a problem waiting to happen. 3 yearly renewals would be a nightmare for all concerned as they can't cope with 5 yearly ones at the moment

nor can my dept mate but like I said,if they want to create more work for themselves then that's up to them.

[Christopher Graffius]

There's a lot of speculation about potential changes but little substance beyond that this or that measure has been discussed before and may be on the cards. Nor would I be surprised that every licensing department in the country is working hard to make sure that they've crossed all their t's and dotted their i's. Ministers have not made any prejudgements or decisions.

 

I can tell you that both the Police, the Home Office and BASC are seperately running through the options and possibilities but no one will be going firm on anything until we've seen the Cumbrian Police report and taken the political temperature in the Commons debate.

 

BASC is in touch with the Police and will be meeting Home Office civil servants next week for a preparatory discussion. We'll be meeting Home Office Ministers shortly.

 

Should the Cumbrian police report show that the system was properly applied and not identify failures, and should the argument that you can't legislate for a lunatic gain political support, then no change becomes a valid position.

 

Christopher

[Simon Clarke]

BASC calls for shooters to lobby MPs. (Press release)

 

9th June 2010……………………………………………………………immediate release

 

The UK’s largest shooting organisation, the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC), is calling on its members and others who shoot to lobby their MPs in advance of a parliamentary debate on firearms laws in the wake of the murders in Cumbria.

 

BASC has launched a campaigning website which allows people to look up their local MP by postcode, constituency name or the name of the MP. The results show whether an MP has indicated if they are supportive of, or opposed to, shooting. An email text is then made available, which can be edited and altered if desired.

 

BASC spokesman Simon Clarke said: “While our thoughts are very much with the people of Cumbria as they cope with the aftermath of this appalling tragedy, inevitably media and public attention has been drawn to the UK’s firearms licensing laws. Those who are opposed to the lawful use of guns have not been slow in putting their views across and shooting must make sure that its voice is heard. We urge everyone who is involved in shooting to visit the BASC website and to take a few short minutes to send a message to their local elected representative. It’s also vitally important that they send responses back to us. All the details are on the website which can also be found here.”

 

The email to MPs sets out the value of shooting to the countryside and to the economy, where it generates £1.6 billion pounds a year, and asks them to consider the damage that knee-jerk legislation would do to lawful and responsible shooting and the countryside. It also offers them a chance to find out more about shooting in their constituency.

 

Simon Clarke said: “While professional campaigning groups such as BASC have their work to do, nothing gets through to an MP more quickly than a message from one of their own constituents, so we are calling on everyone to play their part to back up the work we will be undertaking.” ENDS

[the running man]

BASC calls for shooters to lobby MPs. (Press release)

 

9th June 2010……………………………………………………………immediate release

 

The UK’s largest shooting organisation, the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC), is calling on its members and others who shoot to lobby their MPs in advance of a parliamentary debate on firearms laws in the wake of the murders in Cumbria.

 

BASC has launched a campaigning website which allows people to look up their local MP by postcode, constituency name or the name of the MP. The results show whether an MP has indicated if they are supportive of, or opposed to, shooting. An email text is then made available, which can be edited and altered if desired.

 

BASC spokesman Simon Clarke said: “While our thoughts are very much with the people of Cumbria as they cope with the aftermath of this appalling tragedy, inevitably media and public attention has been drawn to the UK’s firearms licensing laws. Those who are opposed to the lawful use of guns have not been slow in putting their views across and shooting must make sure that its voice is heard. We urge everyone who is involved in shooting to visit the BASC website and to take a few short minutes to send a message to their local elected representative. It’s also vitally important that they send responses back to us. All the details are on the website which can also be found here.”

 

The email to MPs sets out the value of shooting to the countryside and to the economy, where it generates £1.6 billion pounds a year, and asks them to consider the damage that knee-jerk legislation would do to lawful and responsible shooting and the countryside. It also offers them a chance to find out more about shooting in their constituency.

 

Simon Clarke said: “While professional campaigning groups such as BASC have their work to do, nothing gets through to an MP more quickly than a message from one of their own constituents, so we are calling on everyone to play their part to back up the work we will be undertaking.” ENDS

its a bit soon for this isent it? Its only been a week.how's this move by basc going to be veiwed or twisted by journolists?

[Simon Clarke]

its a bit soon for this isent it? Its only been a week.how's this move by basc going to be veiwed or twisted by journolists?

 

 

As I've answered elsewhere, I appreciate your concern, but questions are being asked about gun controls by MPs now. There were questions raised at Prime Minister's questions in the Commons today - as memorial services were being held. Our opponents will not hesitate, and I'm afraid we must make a move too. The Cumbria police report is due out in June and MPs will be debating the issue before the end of July. Journalists were asking questions about gun law within hours of the events in Cumbria last Wednesday, and we would be neglecting our duty if we did not answer them. The full message to MPs reads:

 

"I am a constituent and participate in shooting sports.

 

The murders in Cumbria have shocked and saddened the whole shooting community.

 

I am concerned that this may result in legislative damage to safe and legal shooting. I am also aware that you will have the opportunity to contribute to the debate promised in parliament.

 

Shooting is a major contributor to the economy and the environment. The independent PACEC report found that live quarry shooting alone contributed £1.6 billion to the economy, was responsible for the full time equivalent of 70,000 jobs and provided 2.7 million work days on conservation.

 

I have been pleased by the good sense displayed by both government and opposition in warning against knee-jerk legislation. As the Prime Minister has said you cannot legislate for a lunatic.

 

I would be very happy to brief you on shooting sports and their role in your constituency. Please let me know if you would like to take up my offer."

Edited June 9, 2010 by Simon Clarke

[the running man]

Well its wat I pay u for I suppose,ure in the political loop I'm not!

[wymberley]

Well its wat I pay u for I suppose,ure in the political loop I'm not!

Hello, mate. I honestly do sympathise with and understand your point of view and also the same by another member on the other thread. BUT, following Dunblane we shooters sat back and said, no, the right thing to do is to wait for the Cullen Report to be published. So we did. Unfortunately, no one else did AND WE GOT SHAFTED. Consequently, let's not make the same mistake again.

Cheers

[hawkeye]

I have E-mailed my MP just now will let you know what his reply is if i get one.. :blink:

[Imperfection]

Also spot checks are on the cards.

 

To be honest-im all in favour of spot checks.It would keep everyone on their toes and helps prevent people getting complacent about security.Might also give the FEO's advance warning if people were mentally slipping.

[mossy835]

To be honest-im all in favour of spot checks.It would keep everyone on their toes and helps prevent people getting complacent about security.Might also give the FEO's advance warning if people were mentally slipping.

 

 

 

i dont see how that would help.you could have a spot check today and go mad tomorrow,im sure we are all on our toes all the time,i dont see a answer to what has happened,and it will happen again in time,

[Breastman]

i dont see how that would help.you could have a spot check today and go mad tomorrow,im sure we are all on our toes all the time,i dont see a answer to what has happened,and it will happen again in time,

 

I think the key word in Imperfections sentence was MIGHT. :blink: There will never be a 'silver bullet' (excuse the pun) solution to stop things like this happening, but sensible and more importantly, proportionate, changes to the system could be possible.

 

As an aside, its a damn pity Ann Widdecombe isn't still an MP, what an article!

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/179973...nges-to-gun-law

 

Mark

Edited June 9, 2010 by Breastman