njc110381 Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 (edited) I've had a very strange evening tonight. I went out with a mate of mine with my new SBS to see if we could bag some bunnies on some areas of my land that aren't suitable for the rifle. These areas have lots of Rabbits because they are small peaks on pretty much flat ground. When I shoot that's where I lie prone as it's the highest point, I can't safely shoot at them from any angle and they provide enough backstop to use my .17AH. So we led up in the maize about 30 yards out from the ridge and waited. Well out popped a bunny and boom, both barrels, big cloud of dust comes up from the area he was sat in, bunny runs off This happened a couple of times so I gave up. I was either pricking them or completely missing so I wasn't happy to continue. It looked like the shot was hitting the zone and even my mate who was watching the shots said I wasn't missing? The gun is choked half and full and I was using Eley 30g #6 which from my other guns have been fine on the few bunnies I have taken with the shotgun but they're just not working tonight! So if I'm not missing are the pellets too small? Am I trying to take them at too long a range or am I using too light a load? I've not shot many Rabbits with a shotgun but know some of you do. I'm not the best shot but I'm not that bad! As it was a new gun I thought I may be hitting low, so I varied the height of the shots to see where the gun was going. Still no luck! Where am I going wrong? :( Edited June 19, 2010 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 So if I'm not missing are the pellets too small? Am I trying to take them at too long a range or am I using too light a load? You mean try a larger harder hitting shot size, like a 5 or even a 4? 30g of number six should be ok. If it was me, and I posses no special skills, I would try patterning the gun and make sure you really are shooting where you think you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 I should pattern it. I'll blast one of the old split silage bales next time I'm there and see what it's doing. I was thinking of going up to 32g or 34g #5 though just to give me a bit more confidence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 just to give me a bit more confidence! I think that is often 90% of the problem. Just do something different and everything can fall into place. Good luck! :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 6 at 30yards should do the job easy, even though I use 5. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 Pattern it. That load should kill no problems at that range. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 Pattern it. That load should kill no problems at that range. FM True! You may be completely 'off target'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 I don't rate 30g 6's really out past 30 yards on rabbits.. Pattern it and if that's ok then try 5's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 You may be completely 'off target'! That wouldn't come as a great surprise to me! Some days I feel I'd be better off throwing stones than using the shotgun! If they were running when I missed them then I could accept it but they were just standing around eating. I really can't see how I could be going wrong, not to that extent anyway? I think the pattern plate idea is the best plan. With all my other guns I've usually managed to down what I'm going for so to miss with that many shots on sitters just doesn't make sense. With the dust clouds I've been getting I'm beginning to think it's shooting very low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 Are you shooting from a prone, or standing position ? If you are laying down, its possible you are hitting the ground before hitting the target. When patterning your gun, try to duplicate the shooting conditions as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 Lying prone, or any other situation where you have to "aim" a shotgun is never ideal IMHO (with the possible exception of a planned ambush on a fox using large shot at intermediate range). I would far rather shoot a moving target than a static one every time when using a shotgun, to the point where I will often try to bolt quarry and shoot it on the move. I dont know whether it is a shot placement thing or the fact that a bolting rabbit/bird is a softer target (perhaps by being less "bunched up"), but I find that these shots are almost always more accurate and result in more stone-dead kills. ZB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 All the shots I've taken have been free standing. Just bringing the gun up like I would with the rifle and pulling the trigger as the barrels cross the target. It works fine with the .22lr and I can shoot fairly accurately (couple of inch group at 50 yards) with the rifle using that method. I'm wondering if there may be some truth in the "bunched up" point that ZB mentioned? When a Rabbit is running the skin is tight and the pellets can easily rip through it. When it's loose it may just absorb some of the energy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 i had a problem like that i told the guy in the shop where i get my carts and he said its because i was aiming it like a rifle and my shot was going over it he told me if i have to aim at it to aim at its feet so i did and it worked a treat but thats just me and my gun thaks colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 (edited) If the rabbit is at full stretch,(botling) it's 'vitals' if you like are much more exposed than when it is all bunched up. Edited June 20, 2010 by CZ452 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSS Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Whether the rabbits are bunched up or running, 30 gram of 6's will smash the **** out of them at 30 yards. I shot 2 at about that tonight and they just die. I wouldn't say it is shot size, more like pattern in the wrong place. Pattern test it to see if you can see the problem, and if everything is fine on the pattern plate, give up shotguns and stick with your rifles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 i had a problem like that i told the guy in the shop where i get my carts and he said to aim at its feet so i did and it worked a treat but thats just me and my gun thaks colin That's how I've always done it but it doesn't work with this gun. I've always thought it's best for the target to be "standing on the end of the barrel" as the guy who taught me used to say. I'm going to be losing it behind the rib soon! Whether the rabbits are bunched up or running, 30 gram of 6's will smash the **** out of them at 30 yards.I shot 2 at about that tonight and they just die. I wouldn't say it is shot size, more like pattern in the wrong place. Pattern test it to see if you can see the problem, and if everything is fine on the pattern plate, give up shotguns and stick with your rifles Stick to the rifles.... Well I did that last night on the rest of the field and got quite a few so you may well be right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 simple answer is you're missing them with at least most of the shot, I can't shoot a side by side for toffee so my suggestion as well as patterning it is try it with an over and under. Get the shot in the right place and the cartridges certainly aren't the problem. Might I suggest getting an HMR if that doesn't work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoughton Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) I used to have the same problem - but when I patterned the gun I found that I needed to aim much lower - actually putting the bead onto the rabbits paws on the ground. Pulling the trigger then bowls the rabbits over and you'll how hard the shot hits them. I would put money on the fact that you are shooting over the top. Just humour me - shoot low and I bet you hit them! I use 5s and 6s - and although I prefer the 5s for rabbits I couldn't really swear any real difference at a range of 30 yards. Both are good enough. Good luck - please let us know how you get on. It's nice to hear the outcome of these threads! Steve Edited June 21, 2010 by shoughton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lez325 Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) I agree- shoot at their feet- I had the same problems whilst walking around my shoots - I can nail Pigeons all day long ( well most pf the time) but Rabbits seem to be completeley different point of aim- shoot low best results Ive found Les Edited June 21, 2010 by Lez325 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesLeic Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Pattern it in the prone (as in laying down like you were when you shot the rabbits) and look for holes in your pattern - if there are holes change to a different cartridge to find one that doesnt have any but the shot size at that range isnt the problem there maybe a hole in the pattern (laying down will change how the gun will pattern). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 simple answer is you're missing them with at least most of the shot, I can't shoot a side by side for toffee so my suggestion as well as patterning it is try it with an over and under. Get the shot in the right place and the cartridges certainly aren't the problem. Might I suggest getting an HMR if that doesn't work How can I put this?..... Oh I know, the second word's off! :blink: I can't actually shoot any shotgun for toffee, I'm rubbish! With my .17AH (like your HMR but a million times better) I had no problem in taking them down right out to 250 odd yards. The trouble is these couple of areas just aren't safe with the rifle so I figured a shotgun was the answer. I think a couple of them must have died of laughter by now, but for the rest of them I'm considering hiding in the maize and ambushing them with my air rifle. That would do the trick nicely and would be quite safe too. I will pattern the gun when I have a moment. It would be interesting to see how it goes and I'll take a photo of the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 It was only half meant in Jest, In a similar situation I'd park my truck close and shoot off the back to get a decent angle into the soil not something I'd do with a centrefire. If you can't hit stationary objects with a shotgun you're half way to finding out why you can't, as said aim at their feet and odds are you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 I would suggest going back to the spot and replicate the shot with some newspaper weighted down and an empty plastic bottle sat on the paper as the rabbit. I would guess you will find you are shooting over the top. Might we be worth a try to get your confidence back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 It was only half meant in Jest, In a similar situation I'd park my truck close and shoot off the back to get a decent angle into the soil not something I'd do with a centrefire. I have considered that with the AH as it's very similar to the HMR. It's the same 20grn bullet just with an extra 1000fps in it so they break up virtually as soon as they contact anything. I did some tests some time ago by putting paper a few feet behind various items (apples etc) and shooting through, the bullets hit the paper in pieces! It's still risky though due to the positioning of local houses and a railway line. Just not worth the risk for a few bunnies because you never know when you might get a freak bullet which holds together. I need an excuse to try out the air rifle anyway. They're a very under rated tool and perfect for situations like these. I'll try the bottle trick. An old 4 pint milk bottle looks just about right as a dummy Rabbit! :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 (edited) I think the problem is you are shooting it like a rifle and not like a shotgun. With a lot of shotguns if you aim it like a rifle it will shoot high. Others, just to be difficult will shoot low. The bead is not a fore sight. 30g of eley sixes will not only kill a rabbit at that range it will do it easily. And do a bit of pattern testing with an aiming mark to see where its shooting. Edited June 22, 2010 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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