Price increase for FAC

[Dougy]

Just heard that there is a possible increase in the near future for FAC. £90 for 3 years Also tightning up on the usage of weapons, ie;Use it or loose it !!!

 

this has come from FLO in staffs this morning just visited a mate who put in for a variation for 257 and 30 cal. Is there any truth in this? does anyone know

[seeker]

Have a look at Basc post ... this is A Select Committee Report and suggestions ... needs to be debated, negotiated, legislated .. implemented ..... so who can say what the final result will be .... unless your FLO is clairvoyant ... but a price increase at some stage is almost inevitable.

[Cannon]

I wouldn't mind paying a higher price if the service was there. A variation over here costs £28 but can take the guts of a year to do. I'd pay 3 times that amount if I knew it would be back with me in 2 weeks

[hambone]

It would be a use it or lose it condition that would worry me. If 2 people had .243 for example both bought 40 rounds each, 1 goes stalking on say 30 occasions and possibly uses 20 rounds + a few to check zero. The other likes his target shooting and uses all his ammo in 2 x trips to the range. Along comes the local FLO who is now looking at use (proved by ammo use) and comes to the conclusion that the second man is using his rifle more. The situation is not black and white and i think it's fine as it is.

[Dougy]

The problem may be as post above, what is considered to be "lack" of use The FLO in question was not 1 that i have had dealings with personaly, but the comments were made, and came from somewere. I agree with your views with regards to "how many rounds" are considered to be fair reason. There is allot of speculation at the moment, we will have to wait and see what comes in the new year.

[jonesbach]

im with both above...! had a few words with FEO last time he was with me as he said if i used a good couple of hundred of rounds of .223 then i would be able to get an open cert on it... so in reality, you can "pay for" an open cert...!? whereas the person that goes out shooting will know that to shoot a couple of hundred rounds could take quite some time and also mean quite a reduction in fox numbers in their area...they need to see the bigger picture not count how many shots the cert holder has taken.

[HDAV]

A mates dad already lost a slot on a gun he owned due to lack of use and had to do a DSC1 to get it back....So nothing new...

[skyshooter]

What about reloading? I've got a job lot of components bought 20 yrs ago. They arent on my cert :unsure:

[vampire]

I asked my feo about getting open cert but he said no unless you use a lot of ammo,so far i have used 600 rounds on the rabbits and EVERY shot had to be thought about,but if i was a target shooter i would have used loads of ammo by now and all would have been safe shots and could have open cert,so where is the sense in that

[hambone]

I asked my feo about getting open cert but he said no unless you use a lot of ammo,so far i have used 600 rounds on the rabbits and EVERY shot had to be thought about,but if i was a target shooter i would have used loads of ammo by now and all would have been safe shots and could have open cert,so where is the sense in that

 

That is exactly what i was getting at, then multiply it by the different calibers you have. Restriction through cost?

[Redgum]

I asked my feo about getting open cert but he said no unless you use a lot of ammo,so far i have used 600 rounds on the rabbits and EVERY shot had to be thought about,but if i was a target shooter i would have used loads of ammo by now and all would have been safe shots and could have open cert,so where is the sense in that

 

Is it as straight forward as that,it you are a target shooter getting through loads of ammo it will not be expanding and you will not be able to hunt with it so what is the use of an open ticket.What is true though is that someone managing a herd of deer will struggle to get through a hundred rounds with zeroing. I seem to spend more time waiting for deer than shooting em but as I really enjoy my rifle and reloading I will probably get through 3 times as many for a lot less deer. And as for those who have a few bought hunting breaks a year may only use 20rnds,does it mean the luxury of having your own rifle will be gone and estate rifle only. Of course who knows what will happen in the future,the government don't really know whats going on, the Tory's promised voters that they would stiffen penalties for knife crime but have back peddled on that already.

[mossy835]

if this is true they can have my fac back.

[Dekers]

if this is true they can have my fac back.

 

I'm sure many in Parliament would be very happy to see lots of FAC handed back!

[Dekers]

The FAC/SGC prices have not changed for over 10 years from what I recall, it is inevitable they will go up sooner or later!

 

You have to justify every tool you have, there has always been a use it or lose it policy, it's simply a matter of enforcement!

[Dougy]

The FAC/SGC prices have not changed for over 10 years from what I recall, it is inevitable they will go up sooner or later!

 

You have to justify every tool you have, there has always been a use it or lose it policy, it's simply a matter of enforcement!

A price increase from £10 a year to £30 is a bit of a jump dont you think thats if its true of course.

Yes i agree. but its the way in which these laws are inforced, say for example you dont use a certian rifle for whatever reason for say a couple of years,is it then seen by the FLO to be an excessive rifle in your collection therefore no longer needed ? 1 less rifle

 

it may be someone who cant afford to go stalking as often as they would like, for whatever reason if the laws are enforced to get the amount of rifles owned by shooters down then i think its a law we would not like to be enforced.

 

Its only speculation at the moment, we will have to wait and see.

[al4x]

As dekers says at the moment if you don't use a rifle or don't buy one after getting a variation for it you aren't showing you need to have it. Same with using ammo its a guide as to how much use a gun gets and your only way of demonstrating it. As for cost you can't get a tradesman to the door for £50 so why should the country subsidise our licenses. I won't like paying more but I can see we have to be whiter than white and pay our way

[MC]

If you were a target shooter you automatically get an open ticket. I can use any of my target rifles on ANY approved range I want as long as the range is approved for that firearm. So not open in the sense you can use them where you see fit but open in as much no one range is mentioned.

I use loads of rounds target shooting, probably 5000 or so a year but the HUGE difference is you never have to consider backstops etc and all the approved ranges have butts and bullet catchers etc.

 

Ammo usage should really be an issue for any gun, if you aren't using it you don't really need it do you?

[MC]

So the cost will go up? Does it matter? At the moment I am paying £12 a year to carry out a hobby that I love doing.

 

Even if they double it, it won't be an issue to me. Shooting to me is far more than cost. If I took the cost into account I wouldn't do it.

[Scully]

There is no 'use it or lose it policy',the licensing authorities are as bound by firearms legislation as everyone else.If you have satisfied the 'good reason' criteria then the amount of ammo you use is irrelevant.There is no legislation regarding the minimum or maximum amount of ammo used by any individual,and if licensing try to 'enforce none existing rules' then you get your shooting organisation on to the case.

There is no requirement by law to take a DSC level whatever to justify 'good reason',you either have a 'good reason' or not.People often take DSC qualifications as they cannot get to shoot deer otherwise,for various reasons....lack of deer on their permissions,career expectations,just for the experience,whatever.

If your FEO says you ned to justify your 'good reason' by the amount of ammo you use,then he/she is misleading you.

[Dekers]

If you were a target shooter you automatically get an open ticket. I can use any of my target rifles on ANY approved range I want as long as the range is approved for that firearm. So not open in the sense you can use them where you see fit but open in as much no one range is mentioned.

I use loads of rounds target shooting, probably 5000 or so a year but the HUGE difference is you never have to consider backstops etc and all the approved ranges have butts and bullet catchers etc.

 

Ammo usage should really be an issue for any gun, if you aren't using it you don't really need it do you?

 

 

Even the government cannot simply base usage/need on ammo used, target shooters will always use more than hunters, Game Keepers, Pest Controllers, Stalkers, etc, etc.; need must be considered, but I can see that the recreational shooter is likely to have an even harder job getting/keeping their guns!

[Dekers]

There is no 'use it or lose it policy',the licensing authorities are as bound by firearms legislation as everyone else.If you have satisfied the 'good reason' criteria then the amount of ammo you use is irrelevant.There is no legislation regarding the minimum or maximum amount of ammo used by any individual,and if licensing try to 'enforce none existing rules' then you get your shooting organisation on to the case.

There is no requirement by law to take a DSC level whatever to justify 'good reason',you either have a 'good reason' or not.People often take DSC qualifications as they cannot get to shoot deer otherwise,for various reasons....lack of deer on their permissions,career expectations,just for the experience,whatever.

If your FEO says you ned to justify your 'good reason' by the amount of ammo you use,then he/she is misleading you.

 

 

I can see where you are coming from on this but there most certainly is a use it or lose it policy, call it what you will, you have to justify EVERY tool you own, if you don't use one then try and justify your continued ownership of it, no use, no requirement, lose it, simple.

 

Like I said earlier, it has always been there, fact is it is likely to be enforced more rigorously in the future.

 

Nevertheless, I don't see ammo used as the sole justification for any given tool!

[Scully]

Sorry to disagree with you Dekers,but there is no 'use it or lose it policy' in firearms legislation.My initial post still stands.I know what you're saying,and I agree,if you don't use any ammo then you don't 'need' the gun,and therefore your 'good reason'(the only requirement you need by law)to possess said firearm does not exist.If you shoot 2,5 or 10 deer in this case then you have shown you have 'good reason'.Your FEO may ask you if you have a genuine need given the limited amount of ammo used,and licensing may not be entirely happy,but there is nothing in law which states you have to fire a certain amount of rounds.I speak from experience.If your FEO is telling you otherwise,then tell your Shooting organisation,that is what they are there for.

[Dekers]

Sorry to disagree with you Dekers,but there is no 'use it or lose it policy' in firearms legislation.My initial post still stands.I know what you're saying,and I agree,if you don't use any ammo then you don't 'need' the gun,and therefore your 'good reason'(the only requirement you need by law)to possess said firearm does not exist.If you shoot 2,5 or 10 deer in this case then you have shown you have 'good reason'.Your FEO may ask you if you have a genuine need given the limited amount of ammo used,and licensing may not be entirely happy,but there is nothing in law which states you have to fire a certain amount of rounds.I speak from experience.If your FEO is telling you otherwise,then tell your Shooting organisation,that is what they are there for.

 

 

I think we are singing from the same Hymn sheet, like I said ..Call it what you will, if you don't use it then you may have a problem keeping it, and as I said, this cannot simply be based on ammo usage.

 

Use it or lose it, not justified, call it what you will, it's only words, if you don't use it and can't justify it the odds are you may well lose it.

 

...and no, my FEO is not telling me anything, I use all mine plenty, but I am also Secretary of a Home Office approved Rifle Club at Bisley, and many of the members **** themselves when they look at ammo use when renewal time comes around and rush to me to buy ammo to their limit!!

Edited December 22, 2010 by Dekers

[Scully]

Yeah,I know what you mean regarding people 'panicking' at renewal time.I had a bit of difficuilty myself once when licensing wanted me to keep receipts for ammunition bought for two firearms that I had already proven 'good reason' for.When I questioned the legality and reason for this i received another letter admitting their was no legal authority for requesting this information.

[kent]

All these thoughts come down to one thing. there can never be generalisation in firearms licencing, we need FEO's who speak and know what goes on. You can not and i doubt they ever will treat everyone the same, ammo useage and granting open certificates on the ammo used basis is totally maddening to experianced users, i have no gripe here as all my rifles are open but how many of us actually shoot over 100 foxes or deer a year say and over 5yrs you would only get through around 600 bullets including zero checks. Think about it two deer or two foxes a week practically every week for 5yrs, not only would you need one serious fox problems or deer over population issues but a heck of a lot of ground to cover.

I am an optimist and feel that some good might just come of this review as at leat the PM recognises the failures of the past and the dangers of over legislation by the misguided.