Vermincinerator Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 On a slightly different note, in the mid 1980s when i worked for a doorstep money lending firm, i was told that it was illegal to cold call to lend money but a leaflet drop and follow up call was allowed. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Maybe SHE didn't call the police? Just like last week when we were asked to attend a similar incident after being alerted by an old lady's concerned Grand Daughter. Maybe she was a normal trusting old lady who would not be as naturally suspicious as would younger people who have more exposure to this sort of crime? Like I said, we don't actually know what happened. It is another bash the police thread with no chance of the full facts being published. It reads "As is his normal practice he drops leaflets to all the surrounding houses when he was finished. One lady opened the door to him and asked how much he charged. He gave her a quote and one of his leaflets. A few days later he gets a call to say OK and he arranges to go the next morning. When he arrives there the local homebeat officer was there waiting for him, told him it was a no cold calling area (how would he know that?) gave him a ####ing took his details, which was already on the leaflet anyway, and told him he would be recorded on the police database." She entered into conversation with him. Then phones up and books him. I wasnt knocking the police.... i actually said "Fair play to the police though for turning up and investigating even though it seems silly" shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Alot of areas working with trading standards and the council are starting no cold calling areas, usually in areas were there may be a lot of elderly people etc to reduce miss selling etc. I am sewing an increase over the last few months at work ? How the enforcement works I wouldn't know but someone like yourself has not been hassleing people, I'm sure that would be very easy to prove . I think it's mainly aimed at criminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 It is another bash the police thread with no chance of the full facts being published. Cant let a simple thing like facts get in the way of Police bashing thread! I recon on a 6 pager for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy1403 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 leaflet drops are not cold calling.the guy has done nothing wrong and should complain. cold calling is when for example pikie or cowboy builder etc.knocks on the door and says something like i was driving past and seen you had loose tile on your roof i have my ladders with me i can sort it for a tenner.ten mins later he is back at the door saying that there was x amount of broken tile that he has replaced thats £500 please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 as said the signs will be on lamp posts as you get into the area This outlines what you can and can't do. Its to stop amateurs mob as well and seems quite a good idea, http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/sccwebsite/sccwspages.nsf/LookupWebPagesByTITLE_RTF/Frequently+asked+questions+about+No+Cold+Calling+Zones?opendocument Its the first I have heard of such a scheme and reading through the FAQ's in that link it seems a great idea. £150 to pressure wash a drive ? :blink: Living in the middle of nowhere I am glad to be out of the loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/sccwebsite/sccwspages.nsf/LookupWebPagesByTITLE_RTF/Frequently+asked+questions+about+No+Cold+Calling+Zones?opendocument Qu.2 of the above link seems to suggest that distributing leaflets is allowed in a 'No Cold Calling' zone so whether or not the person knew it was a zone doesn't matter as they have not broken the rules. Q2. What sort of people is the zone designed to prevent calling?A2. The zone is primarily designed to reduce instances of doorstep crime and distraction burglary and therefore the primary purpose is to prevent rogue traders. However, the zone is there to stop any unwanted cold callers and to empower residents to have confidence to deter callers away who they do not wish to deal with. The zone is not designed to prevent people from distributing leaflets or catalogues such as Betterware or the “Avon Lady”. It is also not designed to stop people on legitimate business such as gas, electricity and water meter readers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguar Warrior Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) DocW quotes with bold: The zone is not designed to prevent people from distributing leaflets or catalogues such as Betterware or the “Avon Lady”. It is also not designed to stop people on legitimate business such as gas, electricity and water meter readers. I think DocW is misreading the english. I think that it is intended to be read as: The zone is not designed to prevent people from distributing leaflets or catalogues, such as Betterware or the “Avon Lady”. It is also not designed to stop people on legitimate business such as gas, electricity and water meter readers. Betterware and Avon are national, reputable firms. Correct me if I'm wrong. JW Edited April 5, 2011 by Jaguar Warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Its the first I have heard of such a scheme and reading through the FAQ's in that link it seems a great idea. £150 to pressure wash a drive ? :blink: Living in the middle of nowhere I am glad to be out of the loop. That makes 2 of us then … nobody knocks on my door! I like the idea of people taking care of my granny (inheritance protected! Lol) … good on NHW & the police. I think a quiet word from the police would have been enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 DocW quotes with bold: The zone is not designed to prevent people from distributing leaflets or catalogues such as Betterware or the “Avon Lady”. It is also not designed to stop people on legitimate business such as gas, electricity and water meter readers. I think DocW is misreading the english. I think that it is intended to be read as: The zone is not designed to prevent people from distributing leaflets or catalogues, such as Betterware or the “Avon Lady”. It is also not designed to stop people on legitimate business such as gas, electricity and water meter readers. Betterware and Avon are national, reputable firms. Correct me if I'm wrong. JW OK I will. They are just two example of businesses, nowhere does it state that it has to be a person from a nationally recognised company. Also Betterware and Avon don't drop leaflets so it can't be referring to them. I refer you to Qu.3 on the same website Q3. Why are you setting up No Cold Calling Zones?A3. No Cold Calling Zones are being established to protect residents from unwanted doorstep callers. They are designed to act as a deterrent to stop businesses cold calling in areas that are clearly marked as No Cold Calling Zones. The zones empower local residents to feel confident about sending unwanted callers away. It specifically states in Q3 that the zone is designed to stop cold calling, posting leaflets is not cold calling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 as said the signs will be on lamp posts as you get into the area This outlines what you can and can't do. Its to stop amateurs mob as well and seems quite a good idea, http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/sccwebsite/sccwspages.nsf/LookupWebPagesByTITLE_RTF/Frequently+asked+questions+about+No+Cold+Calling+Zones?opendocument To quote from the attachment that you supplied "The zone is not designed to prevent people from distributing leaflets or catalogues such as Betterware or the “Avon Lady”. It is also not designed to stop people on legitimate business such as gas, electricity and water meter readers." It would appear that the police officer was working outside of the intention of the restriction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 put anyone in a uniform and they think there it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguar Warrior Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) OK I will. They are just two example of businesses, nowhere does it state that it has to be a person from a nationally recognised company. Also Betterware and Avon don't drop leaflets so it can't be referring to them. I refer you to Qu.3 on the same website It specifically states in Q3 that the zone is designed to stop cold calling, posting leaflets is not cold calling. What I think is more significant, and something i'm taking into consideration, is that nowhere does it say that leaflet drops are not cold calling. I'm putting some weight on what WASN'T said as what is said, but poorly worded. I'm still waiting to be corrected using some form of logic, rather than repeating your pre-formed viewpoint. Sorry DocW, you've forgotten the mantra: Snap diagnoses are only impressive when 100% correct. Try looking at it from the point of view of the writer. I'm confident that then the lights will come on and someone will be at home... The aim is to stop strangers wandering about on the estate. People dropping leaflets is just the thing they are trying to stop, but not the activities of Betterware, Avon and other larger companies. ATB JW Edited April 5, 2011 by Jaguar Warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted April 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I was the OP on this thread and I don't really think the motives are wrong I have an old mum who lives on here own. The reason for the complaint and why its going to run for quite a long time yet involves the use of alleged deception to get him round there. He was "booked" to do a job of work on that day, at an agreed price and a "verbal contract" was made. If there was absolutely no intent to ever have him do the job then deception was employed. The question now revolves around who's idea it was and what words were actually used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguar Warrior Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Look, I'm just trying to be objective here. If the interpretation that some of you want to use, which is that leaflet drops don't count, be my guest. If that was the case though, if i was a burglar I'd just walk about with leaflets and there would be nothing that any of you that live in 'no cold calling zones' could do about it, including the police. Now that wouldn't make sense would it? I have a nasty Rhode Island Red cockerel that means cold callers don't stay around long. I rarely have chance to get to the door. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I'm still waiting to be corrected using some form of logic If it's logic you're looking for.... "The zone is not designed to prevent people from distributing leaflets or catalogues such as Betterware or the “Avon Lady”" Betterware and Avon don't distribute leaflets, just catalogues. The people referred to as distributing leaflets can't be from Betterware or Avon. Therefore they are talking about two different groups of people, those who distribute leaflets and those who distribute catalogues. As you said.... Try looking at it from the point of view of the writer. I'm confident that then the lights will come on and someone will be at home... ...I'm not that confident though. Nial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguar Warrior Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) Vince, I think there are two issues here. 1) If your friend leaflet-dropped in a 'no cold calling' area, and it was wrong to do so, then he got a telling off for breaching a rule. 2) If he got a telling off for 'cold calling' a few days later, this would appear to be wrong since he was invited. I don't think that is what has happened here though. I think there's confusion because the police spoke to him on his invited visit. I think this was just a way of getting him back to tell him off in public so the neighbours could credit the police for taking some obvious, visible action. I find this a bit sneaky and underhand and think it reflects badly on the police. I agree that they could have rang him and this is the option I think all of us would have preferred. In this case, the police and the complainant took the option they preferred. Another example of the police doing what looks best rather than what IS best. Now your friend holds resentment towards the police, and if I were in his shoes, i would too. They could have sorted the problem without this resentment. In my experience, the police treat everyone as if they are at fault without getting enough details before forming a judgement and later end up looking the fool. JW Edited April 5, 2011 by Jaguar Warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguar Warrior Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) If it's logic you're looking for.... "The zone is not designed to prevent people from distributing leaflets or catalogues such as Betterware or the “Avon Lady”" Betterware and Avon don't distribute leaflets, just catalogues. I agree -JW. The people referred to as distributing leaflets can't be from Betterware or Avon. I agree -JW. Therefore they are talking about two different groups of people, those who distribute leaflets and those who distribute catalogues. I disagree -JW. As you said.... ...I'm not that confident though. Good job - you still haven't grasped it IMHO Nial I still think my interpretation is the likeliest of several, and is the one the writer intended. I think the writer is trying to refer to legitimate people like Betterware, Avon and lots of other similar companies, be it delivering brochures, leaflets, catalogues, freebies or whatever. It is trying to clarify who can legitimately be there, not the goods they individually deliver. Sorry, my lights still on. JW Edited April 5, 2011 by Jaguar Warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 There is never the full amount of detail on these threads, for posters to make a proper judgement. We don't know the full circumstances or what was said by whom. Jaguar Warrior - I cannot subscribe in any way shape or form to this:- In my experience, the police treat everyone as if they are at fault without getting enough details before forming a judgement and later end up looking the fool. In my considerable dealings with them - this couldn't be further from the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguar Warrior Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) There is never the full amount of detail on these threads, for posters to make a proper judgement. We don't know the full circumstances or what was said by whom. Jaguar Warrior - I cannot subscribe in any way shape or form to this:- In my considerable dealings with them - this couldn't be further from the truth. Sorry gordon, I wasn't clear. I only meant at times when they think that an offence has been committed I just reported my experience Gordon. I'm glad yours has been better. In all my firearms dealings with the police (not accused of anything at the time) I have received excellent treatment. In all work related dealings with the police (not accused of anything at the time), ive had excellent treatment. In all social dealings with the police, off duty, (not accused of anything at the time)I have had excellent treatment. Every time I have, however briefly, been a 'suspect' I have been treated rudely, as if i am guilty until proven otherwise, other than minor routine motoring stops. Routine meaning not expecting you to have done anything wrong. Its the last bit i find unprofessional. Oh, there is one exception, when the police recognise me personally. Then i'm treated as nice as pie, and told to be on my way. Its good to get polite treatment, but even that is unprofessional. Edited April 5, 2011 by Jaguar Warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsm1968 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Betterware and Avon are national, reputable firms. Who have 100's of self employed individuals who sell on a commision basis only, and are not so different from a self employed drive way cleaner. It seems to me the OP's mate is a victim of circumstance. He has entered an area where there has most likely been problems before, and the police have acted quite harshly. I think it is heavy handed. However I did enjoy their no nonsense heavy handed approach when they helped me with an ongoing problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del.gue Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I appreciate he may have been genuine, but be aware that it is an offence not to give a written quote for all work quoted over £35. The bquote has to on headed paper with the company details. The householder also has a 7 day cooling off period in which they can cancel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguar Warrior Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I've thought a bit more about this, and we all appear to have been looking at things from the point of view of the 'innocent' drive washer. Now what if he had been the local OAP beating burglar the police had been looking for??? They could have rang him, using the number on the leaflet. The number could have been an untracebale one using a cheap pre-paid SIM card. Mr OAP-beater then says 'OK officer, I didn't realise' on the and disappears off forever. The address on the leaflet was a fake one. The police wouldn't be looking so good now, would they? Any police PW member could have pointed this out. I'm wondering if the attending officer also missed an opportunity to point this out and explain why the matter had to be handled in that specific way. I'd like to retract my comment about the issue being mishandled in a procedural way, as it now makes more sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I've thought a bit more about this, and we all appear to have been looking at things from the point of view of the 'innocent' drive washer. Now what if he had been the local OAP beating burglar the police had been looking for??? They could have rang him, using the number on the leaflet. The number could have been an untracebale one using a cheap pre-paid SIM card. Mr OAP-beater then says 'OK officer, I didn't realise' on the and disappears off forever. The address on the leaflet was a fake one. The police wouldn't be looking so good now, would they? Any police PW member could have pointed this out. I'm wondering if the attending officer also missed an opportunity to point this out and explain why the matter had to be handled in that specific way. I'd like to retract my comment about the issue being mishandled in a procedural way, as it now makes more sense to me. I did. Several pages ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguar Warrior Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 UK poacher - your first post justified the police doing something. I'm not saying they shouldn't have acted. Your second post was about who might have actually called the police, and i don't disagree with that either. I've had my fair share of being pointed at about things that in the end were shown to be nothing to do with me, so I'm all in favour of being careful in pointing fingers and making accusations. You never explained why the police followed the procedure that they did - if you had, i'd have thought 'fair enough'. Like I did in the post above, without prompting. More importantly, thanks for posting at all, despite the fact it makes you a target. After all, it's vital to get both points of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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