Elby Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 It might just be worth mentioning again that the wood pigeon population in the UK numbers in millions. It is one of the UK`s most successful and prolific birds.It breeds in every month of the year. Each year millions are shot and the population is barely held in check. On the other hand, the canada population numbers a handful of thousands.If we continue to treat it with the contempt suggested by some on here it will soon be gone. Canada geese round here are a massive pest and I'm as inland as you get. Getting anything put on the vermikn list theses days is far from easy, must have been done for a reason. My point still stands though, you can't take the moral high ground about leaving goslins but not about pigeon chicks ect. Vermin is vermin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Any round your way at the moment? Perhaps you can sell me a days decoying. Have you never heard of the term "Killing the goose that lays the golden egg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Any round your way at the moment? Perhaps you can sell me a days decoying. Have you never heard of the term "Killing the goose that lays the golden egg? Got some bad news for you, they don't lay golden eggs. Like I said before I'm not happy about shooting them out of season but that's just because for 30 years of shooting they have had a season. Now they are on the pest list and thrown in with all the other pests I would be a hypocrite if I berated someone for shooting them and leaving Goslins to die. If one of my farmers had problems with them stripping a field and wanted me to shoot them then I would as I couldn't use the excuse "they are out of season" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Hi Paul223, to answer your questions if the grass was being treated as a crop and a considerable amount of damage was being done, then yes as per my post they need moving/controlling. As to not treating pigeons the same, if i shot pigeons OFF OF THEIR NEST, i would take every step possible to dispatch the young. But stepping back into the real world as pigeons breed all year round then you have to assume you do take birds that are a breeding pair and possibly leave young behind.This is not ideal but there is no way of avoiding it apart from not shooting pigeons. I didn't state shotgun in my post, i said a suitable gun/cartridge meaning rifle/shotgun with a suitable cartridge. In my opinion and that of the BASC that does not include sub 12ft lb air rifles. Not double standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Hi Paul223, to answer your questions if the grass was being treated as a crop and a considerable amount of damage was being done, then yes as per my post they need moving/controlling. As to not treating pigeons the same, if i shot pigeons OFF OF THEIR NEST,And what if you shot them somewhere else? i would take every step possible to dispatch the young. But stepping back into the real world as pigeons breed all year round Do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) Do they? I have certainly read (in a pigeon shooting book not an RSPB report) that whilst they peak in Spring, woodpigeon have been recorded hatching eggs in every month of the year. Edited April 21, 2011 by Blunderbuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 I have certainly read (in a pigeon shooting book not an RSPB report) that whilst they peak in Spring, woodpigeon have been recorded hatching eggs in every month of the year. That's true, they will lay if there is a good spell of weather. As soon as it changes back again though they will abandon the nest and leave the eggs. They may breed all year but the chances of them rearing young any time other than April - September are very slim. If they have eggs on the nest when there's no leaf on the tree corvids put pay to them pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 It might just be worth mentioning again that the wood pigeon population in the UK numbers in millions. It is one of the UK`s most successful and prolific birds.It breeds in every month of the year. Each year millions are shot and the population is barely held in check. On the other hand, the canada population numbers a handful of thousands.If we continue to treat it with the contempt suggested by some on here it will soon be gone. I think that's the point. The Canada goose is a non native, invasive species like the grey squirrel, American crayfish, Chinese mitten crab, Japanese knotweed, Himalayan balsam, etc etc....(does that post make me sound a bit zenophobic?). Not that I'm saying I'd be happy to shoot nesting birds, but it's shooting as conservation - not of Canadas but of native flora and fauna - and not wildfowling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I also thought that pigeons only bred during the warmer months. Until last year, when I went decoying just as the snow was thawing out. I shot quite a few VERY young birds, who were not long out of their nest. They are an incredibly resilient bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I`m getting on a bit now and I can`t continue to work for the future of shooting for ever. That being so, I`m in the process of moving aside from positions of responsibility within the shooting community and handing the reins over to younger men. I really do worry about the future of the sport when I read some of the naieve and politically inexperienced comments on this forum from younger contributors who, one day, will be running our clubs and contributing to the sports future. Talk about sleepwalking into a trap. The prime mover behind the current situation in respect of shooting the canada has been promoted by the RSPB with its hand up the backside of the government agencies and that hotbed of anti`s, the EU. Many of you have fallen hook line and sinker for an extra bit of shooting with a set of circumstances that was unintentional and has come about by accident. For the umpteenth time, the canada is not classed as vermin. It is however,non native. Some of you promote its extermination. Headlines will read, "The grass roots shooting community backs the principle of the removal of a non native species from our environment." Our opponents play a long game. They battered wildfowling for fifty years and almost broke it. The observant ones amongst you will have noticed that attacks on gameshooting are on the increase. It`s their turn now. And guess what,the main support, the central pillar of our game shooting is, oh, dear, another introduced and non native species, the pheasant! Do you begin to see how this works now. Without wishing to preempt any political decisions, it may well be that nothing can be done, but both the BASC and the CA are reviewing the likely long term effects of the current situation persisting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) I have a pair of Canada's and a single youngster on a pond I look after, they do make a mess but it would be like shooting rats in a barrel. Several times now I have put a rifle bullet over their heads only for them to return. I was not aware they kept Cormoronts away, that gives me an excuse not to shoot them as the pond contains some valuable fish. Then come a duck flight in the autumn they will be far more sporting. The whole discussion about air rifles and their use on larger animals has been done to death here and elsewhere, like all tools they have their uses at short range. While I have not shot geese with one my ORIGINAL 45 .177 12 ft lbs has accounted for several larger mammels. All killed cleanly with sub 20 yard head shots and that is the secret. I would not though do it through choice today having far more efficient and longer reaching tools available. A Edited April 22, 2011 by Alycidon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 It is however,non native. According to DEFRA it's now classed as an Alien/Native species. https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/nonnativespecies/factsheet/factsheet.cfm?speciesId=533 What is also noticeable from their website is that Sika and CWD are protected by a close season even though they are also a non native species. As of course are Pheasant and Red Legged Partridge. That shows to me that shooting a Canada simply because it's 'non-native' is not good enough reason as far as the law is concerned. It therefore boils down to the conditions of the OGL ie SERIOUS crop damage/health & safety reasons etc. Personally I'd have no problem with their culling IF there's good reason. To shoot the odd one or two which are causing no real problem just for the hell of it is simply wrong, and possibly illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 According to DEFRA it's now classed as an Alien/Native species. https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/nonnativespecies/factsheet/factsheet.cfm?speciesId=533 What is also noticeable from their website is that Sika and CWD are protected by a close season even though they are also a non native species. As of course are Pheasant and Red Legged Partridge. That shows to me that shooting a Canada simply because it's 'non-native' is not good enough reason as far as the law is concerned. It therefore boils down to the conditions of the OGL ie SERIOUS crop damage/health & safety reasons etc. Personally I'd have no problem with their culling IF there's good reason. To shoot the odd one or two which are causing no real problem just for the hell of it is simply wrong, and possibly illegal. Can I shoot them in my garden, using a 105mm howitzer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Can I shoot them in my garden, using a 105mm howitzer? You're not taking this seriously are you (Yes, as long as you shoot them under the terms of OGL04 or OGL05, and remember to use non-toxic shot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I was not aware they kept Cormoronts away, that gives me an excuse not to shoot them as the pond contains some valuable fish. probably not in every instant, I have a fisheries that has large flocks of canada's and three cormorants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I also thought that pigeons only bred during the warmer months. Until last year, when I went decoying just as the snow was thawing out. I shot quite a few VERY young birds, who were not long out of their nest. They are an incredibly resilient bird. about 50 pairs nest year in year out at my place of work, they nest on girders, under pipes you name it, they use wire, plastic, anything they can carry as nesting material,comfort is not on the agenda, they nest here from early march to late oct, I was watching a pair today nesting on a mezzanine floor that has an oil conservator immediately above it, dry and warm they will nest everywhere and anywhere. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duncan Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 You're not taking this seriously are you (Yes, as long as you shoot them under the terms of OGL04 or OGL05, and remember to use non-toxic shot) I thought that was just for shotgun carts? But lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duncan Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I`m getting on a bit now and I can`t continue to work for the future of shooting for ever. That being so, I`m in the process of moving aside from positions of responsibility within the shooting community and handing the reins over to younger men. I really do worry about the future of the sport when I read some of the naieve and politically inexperienced comments on this forum from younger contributors who, one day, will be running our clubs and contributing to the sports future. Talk about sleepwalking into a trap. The prime mover behind the current situation in respect of shooting the canada has been promoted by the RSPB with its hand up the backside of the government agencies and that hotbed of anti`s, the EU. Many of you have fallen hook line and sinker for an extra bit of shooting with a set of circumstances that was unintentional and has come about by accident. For the umpteenth time, the canada is not classed as vermin. It is however,non native. Some of you promote its extermination. Headlines will read, "The grass roots shooting community backs the principle of the removal of a non native species from our environment." Our opponents play a long game. They battered wildfowling for fifty years and almost broke it. The observant ones amongst you will have noticed that attacks on gameshooting are on the increase. It`s their turn now. And guess what,the main support, the central pillar of our game shooting is, oh, dear, another introduced and non native species, the pheasant! Do you begin to see how this works now. Without wishing to preempt any political decisions, it may well be that nothing can be done, but both the BASC and the CA are reviewing the likely long term effects of the current situation persisting. Don't worry so much - there are also plenty of young guys who have a good grasp of the political situation and what needs to be done, as well as how to do it. As for the rest? Some will learn, some won't. Things and people don't change that much, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I thought the original responses to this post were about shooting Geese with an airgun which I think is abhorrent. As to taking Canadas 'out of season' in my book that comes under the same heading as Hares (which can also be shot throughout the year) i.e. it's not on. I'll repeat my previous post on the subject, there are two types of people who shoot, hunters and shooters. Respect for quarry (including so called vermin) is in my book paramount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I thought the original responses to this post were about shooting Geese with an airgun which I think is abhorrent. As to taking Canadas 'out of season' in my book that comes under the same heading as Hares (which can also be shot throughout the year) i.e. it's not on. I'll repeat my previous post on the subject, there are two types of people who shoot, hunters and shooters. Respect for quarry (including so called vermin) is in my book paramount. Would you say that if you had a dozen or so hares nibbling at your cover crops on biting the tops off a load of hedgerow plants you've just put in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethevanman Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) I think if they were cleanly killed by the airgun then as far as ethics go, its actually not that bad is it? On here we have even seen foxes killed by airguns so no doubt they have it in them for a goose. A shotgun or higher powered rifle is more wanted, but in the moment if its dead the same thing is accomplished. Also a lot has been said of "best practice" guides, but those guides are not the ultimate guide.....nor are they created by gods, and I am sure they are not perfect... I am waiting for the mods to close this which eventually is inevitable :yp: Steve Edited April 25, 2011 by stevethevanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonblasterian Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Canadas and hares can be shot all year round in England there is no season.There will always be someone that takes a holier than thou attitude because they do not shoot them and someone else does.They probably do not have any to shoot and wish they had that is what i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Highlander sums it up nicely in his post I find that with posts like this, concerning shooting with popguns, nearly always comes up because the OP only has had experience with airguns in one form or another. Then, they cannot see the point that other posters with a lot more experience than themselves are trying to make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Would you say that if you had a dozen or so hares nibbling at your cover crops on biting the tops off a load of hedgerow plants you've just put in? or damageing thousands of pounds worth of christmas trees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Canadas and hares can be shot all year round in England there is no season.There will always be someone that takes a holier than thou attitude because they do not shoot them and someone else does.They probably do not have any to shoot and wish they had that is what i think. Really? Try ringing NE and asking them if it's ok to go down to your local marsh and shoot Canada's tomorrow. I suspect the answer would be a resounding NO, unless of course they're causing SERIOUS crop damage, or have become a health & safety hazard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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