Redgum Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Is this article available online so I can read this direct? You would probably get more sense from Viz and the two fat bags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 however much a cock Mr Wallace might seem he is also correct in a way, some countries measure caliber in a different way, some from grove to grove, some from land to land, how do we do it here in the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scimitar Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 George Wallace a man who has spent years trying to get clearer guidelines for shooters has only muddied the waters. Bringing concern to a great number of .243 owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) Oh, my giddy aunt! We have a two page article, the first of which has over 1/3 taken up by a headline and a quote and the second consists of 1/4 prose, the rest being 1/2 a photo and 1/4 a graph. In the overall scheme of things, the magazine in which it appears has a readership not much greater than the current edition of the News of The World. The author corrects the misnomer used to describe a rifle bullet. He gives what would be the correct calibre for a rifle under accepted terminology. Instead of the correct term, joules, he uses ft/lbs - albeit without the final (f) which along with lbs/ft is in general acceptance. The little that remains consists of information regarding the calibre's external and terminal ballistics. With the regard to the calibre point, he suggests that, 'Let's just not go there! Better to let sleeping dogs lie'. The information contained may or may not be accurate - we will all have our opinions on the matter. However, this is hardly world shattering news. Nothing whatsoever is going to change as a result. Yet somehow, PW manages to turn it into WW 111. What on earth is going to happen when the article that describes how bismuth when in contact with mercury produces a strychnine gas when port is introduced appears? Edit: Missing word added. Edited October 30, 2011 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 World war 3, hardly, this post hasnt even got warm yet.Pigeon watch is just a forum to share our views, they differ thank god and sometimes someone prods it with the blunt stick to stir it up ( I'm not without sin meself ). All good harmless fun and if anyone should leave the keyboard upset or angry, then just get a grip,delete PW from your favourites, turn off computer AND GO SHOOTING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 George Wallace.... Bringing concern to a great number of .243 owners. I doubt that...just go out and enjoy yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Get a grip guys OP was only making you aware what was in the toilet press :yes: ps, doi I say - Diplomatic Imunity :lol: :lol: :D :D :D :) ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 You would probably get more sense from Viz and the two fat bags. hey dont knock viz ive only recentley found out it exsists :blink: i love it... raffles the gentleman theif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 George Wallace.... Bringing concern to a great number of .243 owners. Makes you wonder what his opinion is of the rest of the calibres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark g Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 hey dont knock viz ive only recentley found out it exsists :blink: i love it... raffles the gentleman theif the viz used to run a character series entitled the thieving gypsy ******** it only ran for a few issues and was quite a few years ago, they are probably worth a few quid now rogers profanisaurus is always good for a few new profanities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 World war 3, hardly, this post hasnt even got warm yet.Pigeon watch is just a forum to share our views, they differ thank god and sometimes someone prods it with the blunt stick to stir it up ( I'm not without sin meself ). All good harmless fun and if anyone should leave the keyboard upset or angry, then just get a grip,delete PW from your favourites, turn off computer AND GO SHOOTING But if we all did that how on earth would we be able to keep up with all of your interesting and "to the point" takes on all of these matters. It's some of the comments that I read on Pigeon Watch that start my day off in a most education amusing way! Keep these sort of threads coming guys, go on, "Make my day"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Hands up all you stalkers illegally shooting roe and upwards with a 243. Pfffft, anyone knows that the triple is the correct calibre for roe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Pfffft, anyone knows that the triple is the correct calibre for roe But are you measureing from the correct dia, inside rifling, outside rifling,you can't be sure, especially adding that to muzzle velocity. No, theres only one way to be sure that you are not breaking the law in UK, I'm off to put in a variation for 416 for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 surely if you buy a rifle and it gets put on your ticket as .243 and the ammo you feed it with is .243 and the guideline state .243 then surely your legal no matter what some bellend thinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 As most people who know guns will know that the .243 is marginal on power with a 100 grain bullet . Why bother with it when there is the .308 and the mighty .270 out there . Either one of these calibres and you wont have to worry again about having enough gun for anything . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 As most people who know guns will know that the .243 is marginal on power with a 100 grain bullet . Why bother with it when there is the .308 and the mighty .270 out there . Either one of these calibres and you wont have to worry again about having enough gun for anything . Harnser . Its not realy very marginal on power IMO over 1750 ft lb will kill just about anything in the right spot. The .243 has only two failings 1. the Nut behind the butt 2. poor bullet selection for the task at hand. Case in point IF ftlb energy levels kill - why should any bullet pass through our quarry? as it carries with it valuble energy that cannot then be expended inside the prey. Broadside heart lung shots at decent range most deer ammo will exit the other side. I can fully except that higher BC heavier bullets drift less in wind and slower, heavier, less frangible bullets damage less meat but cannot get the "marginal on power" thing. The only thing you get with more gun can do is create a bigger hole on the other side as it carries its surplus energy into the backstop, of which the only use can be easier human tracking if and when you mess up from the effects of the higher recoil perhaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Its not realy very marginal on power IMO over 1750 ft lb will kill just about anything in the right spot. The .243 has only two failings 1. the Nut behind the butt 2. poor bullet selection for the task at hand. Case in point IF ftlb energy levels kill - why should any bullet pass through our quarry? as it carries with it valuble energy that cannot then be expended inside the prey. Broadside heart lung shots at decent range most deer ammo will exit the other side. I can fully except that higher BC heavier bullets drift less in wind and slower, heavier, less frangible bullets damage less meat but cannot get the "marginal on power" thing. The only thing you get with more gun can do is create a bigger hole on the other side as it carries its surplus energy into the backstop, of which the only use can be easier human tracking if and when you mess up from the effects of the higher recoil perhaps I think he is talking about the legalities, and 90g or 100g .243 can be close to the legal limits with some loads and barrels. But with regard the specific power then they are not marginal at all, a .243 round in virtually any format will stop anything in this country if you deliver it in the right place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 As most people who know guns will know that the .243 is marginal on power with a 100 grain bullet . Why bother with it when there is the .308 and the mighty .270 out there . Either one of these calibres and you wont have to worry again about having enough gun for anything . Harnser . I think he is talking about the legalities, and 90g or 100g .243 can be close to the legal limits with some loads and barrels. But with regard the specific power then they are not marginal at all, a .243 round in virtually any format will stop anything in this country if you deliver it in the right place! Have to agree to both these answers really, 243 has plenty of power but the 308 hits hard, I think the larger bullet dia spreads the shock wave more efficiently than the small dia rnd. You can see by the reaction of the animal when struck by the differant calibres, I expect a rutting fallow buck to trot a bit with the 243 but fall to its knees with th 308. The larger calibre also makes up for a bit of shooter error should it occur and less meat damage in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Have to agree to both these answers really, 243 has plenty of power but the 308 hits hard, I think the larger bullet dia spreads the shock wave more efficiently than the small dia rnd. You can see by the reaction of the animal when struck by the differant calibres, I expect a rutting fallow buck to trot a bit with the 243 but fall to its knees with th 308. The larger calibre also makes up for a bit of shooter error should it occur and less meat damage in most cases. the diameter of the projectile means nothing, the weight of the bullet means more mass and and the potential to create an incresed diamiter wound cavity,for example a 150 grain bullet should create an equal wound channel in any diameter. yet ultimatly bullet selection is way more important as correct expantion in the cavity creates the fastest knock down (unfortunatly also the most meat damage so it comes down to a balance. Heavier bullet also means increased recoil and this effects the presision of the shooter from many stances adversely, again one must make a desision on balance. Mine is a 6mm these days after owning others, there is a very good case for the 6.5mm though i dont feel it offers the versitility with lighter ammo the 6mm does. When i shot a lot of woodland Fallow i went 7mm believing it killed better, it certainly easier to track them without using a dog and yes a lot of the ones i shot with 6mm stood stock still for a while often taking a second shot (until i realised they were dead on thier feet from the energy expended "inside" the cavity) instead of blowing it out the other side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Didn't the late Lea Mc nally only use a 243 on Highland Reds..? Served him well, he didn't have much of a problem with it, & must have shot 100's, if not 1000's in his life time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 243 works just fine! The BC debate is a tough one too - if 30 cal was better for it, why do the F Open boys use 6,6.5,7 mm instead?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 An interesting article in the BASC magazine just put through my door . Hind stalking in Scotland , if you decide to shoot hinds in Scotland and turn up with a .243 dont be surprised if the estate insist that you use one of their .270 or .308 . These people should know . I know of three estates in Norfolk that wont allow the .243 for shooting deer . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 We've had this debate a thousand times and I expect a few more to come. Simple fact is that if you can shoot straight, 243 will take out any UK deer humanely. If you can't shoot worth a damn then take a cannon and shoot the deer in the ****! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 243 works just fine! The BC debate is a tough one too - if 30 cal was better for it, why do the F Open boys use 6,6.5,7 mm instead?! Coz we is talking hunting bullets- BC is substantially better on the bigger cals in hunting bullets once you get over 6mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 An interesting article in the BASC magazine just put through my door . Hind stalking in Scotland , if you decide to shoot hinds in Scotland and turn up with a .243 dont be surprised if the estate insist that you use one of their .270 or .308 . These people should know . I know of three estates in Norfolk that wont allow the .243 for shooting deer . Harnser . This is the same mag that published a picture of a roe and called it a young Red a while back Thats a good reason not to travel to Norfolk to hunt deer then Anyone who wants to stop me using a deer legal .243 and wishes to palm me off with an estate rifle better be ready to prove they can show me up from a three possision Zero check with the heavier cal over me with my own personal rifle, In reality i don't stalk area that don't know and or trust me to stalk alone and there aint many that turn away paying guests (the whole no .243" thing dates back to the early days when english shots brought thier .243's and 55 grn pills for cavity shots on reds) the consern was more carcass prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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