caeser Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 There was one person that I knew, not very well I must stress, I had only met him a few times clay shooting. I remember thinking then , how did he get a shotgun certificate ? ( He didn't have FAC as far as I'm aware.) Sure enough ,a couple of years later he's in prison for murder. That was probably about 6 years ago now. But he is the only one that I can think of that I've honestly thought that about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyboots Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 you can be a convicted terrorist and sit on the northern ireland goverment and hold a FAC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Now I'm not sure on this, but, I reckon statistically, if you looked at the amount of people killed by guns from people with firearms licences,as a percentage, then compared it to the amount of people killed by cars from people with driving licences, as a percentage, I would be very surprised if the cars drivers didn't come out on top. There are thousands of irresponsible people out there driving around in, what amounts to , a lethal weapon. I think this needs to be pointed out to the people who are anti guns. I hope you understand my point. Think I've got this number right(saw it on the news last night)pretty sure it stated that the percentage of legally owned firearms used in murders in this country ran at 14%.Now while I know this is a small figure which doesn't mean we should be complacent about it,it also means that 86% of firearms used in murders are held ILLEGALLY.That's a helluva substantial figure. The reason why the latter don't make front page news nationally(with the occassional exception as in the recent Salford one)is possibly because the numbers involved are relatively low compared to a killing 'spree' which seems to be the precedent with legally held firearms.I may be wrong,but that's how it seems to occur to me. If I've got the figures correct,it does nothing to placate the families of those involved(understandably nothing could)but it does put a perspective on things when faced with a rabid unknowledgeable anti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Now I'm not sure on this, but, I reckon statistically, if you looked at the amount of people killed by guns from people with firearms licences,as a percentage, then compared it to the amount of people killed by cars from people with driving licences, as a percentage, I would be very surprised if the cars drivers didn't come out on top. There are thousands of irresponsible people out there driving around in, what amounts to , a lethal weapon. I think this needs to be pointed out to the people who are anti guns. I hope you understand my point. EDIT: Sorry Scully, not repeating your point, you beat me to it. ITN news yesterday in shocked tones flagged up the statistic that 14% of shootings in Britain involve licensed firearms. They didn't say so but I'll bet that figure includes non-fatal accidents and suicides. It was presented in such a manner as to suggest that 14% of gun murders are committed by license holders. What they made no mention of at all was the 86% of gun murders committed by criminals with prohibited black-market weapons, most of them hand guns, which have proliferated despite a total ban. If only as much energy and hot air was expended on tackling the spread and easy availablity of illegal guns because prohibition clearly doesn't work Edit: to return to the original question, I don't know anyone who have given me reason to believe them mentally unfit to possess firearms. I do know people who have, in my opinion, no good reason to possess (and many who for reasons of conservation and responsible and effective deer management or pest control should stop shooting immediately); and I know a couple of people who are unsafe because they are ignorant, careless or prone to over-excitement. What do we do with these types? Edited January 4, 2012 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Fair enough,but I fail to see how any of the points you have raised would have prevented that which happened in Peterlee,which is the entire purpose of firearms legislation isn't it?The licensing system exists and is intended for the benefit of the safety of the general public,not for the benefit of the shooter. Licensing/legislation for the sheer hell of it benefits no-one.According to someone I know in Canada,the registration of centre-fire rifles has just recently been scrapped in that country following a massive campaign by law abiding firearms holders,including many police officers. As for the op question,I know of one or two people who I am surprised have been granted SGC's,but as long as they meet the criteria by which I am judged,then who am I to decide who should and shouldn't have one? Apart from fake job creation and empire building No legislative measure, including a total ban on all legal firearms will prevent incidents such as what has happened in Peterlee, unfortunately 13 years of Labour "we can fix it with legislation" government has destroyed many peoples ability to grasp the fact that 'stuff' (swearing filter ), including bad 'stuff' happens, and theres nothing anyone can do about it Mark Edited January 4, 2012 by Breastman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejay Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 It had crossed my mind mate KW The guy in question had cleared the land I shoot on back when he was covered to do so, it was cleared for .243 yet it is only about 20 acres with two footpaths running across the middle and one along either side which is classed as a bridleway and gets very busy with dogwalkers and cyclists , in fact its actually a c2c route with only one part of the land being safe to shoot nothing bigger than a .22 as it has a very large embankment along it. There was also a tv programme on about him but cant remember what it was called. To answer the origonal ops question yes I have met one who comes across as unstable but thats just my first impression. Daz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 EDIT: Sorry Scully, not repeating your point, you beat me to it. No problem Gimlet;wasn't sure if I'd heard it right or not anyhow.You've made some even more valid points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 actually i know several, reading libs post on club users i met quite a few ranging from people trying to convert deac pistols to complete tits who stalk deer with 22lrs, not to mention the odd one or two who kept trying to nick my permissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 actually i know several, reading libs post on club users i met quite a few ranging from people trying to convert deac pistols to complete tits who stalk deer with 22lrs, not to mention the odd one or two who kept trying to nick my permissions. Not to mention the rambo posse who I am still sure spend more time in front of the mirror than on the range. But who am I to judge fellow 'sportsman' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Not to mention the rambo posse who I am still sure spend more time in front of the mirror than on the range. But who am I to judge fellow 'sportsman' that reminds me, big ol bowie knife on his belt, 1000yd stare, itchin to gut and dress those pesky targets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I don't know anyone who shouldn't have guns but do. The system works pretty well in that respect I think, although how this latest chap could threaten to shoot himself and have his guns three years later is beyond me. That sort of action ought to have your guns taken away for a considerable time. I do know people who could do with a bit more training. I came close to having a barrel full of shot a few weeks back when a lad I was doing a walk up with let one go into a holly bush that was no more than 4 feet in front of me. I hit the roof - if a copper would have heard the things that got said there's a chance I wouldn't have my FAC now! There was talk of his gun hanging out of his backside and all sorts of words that wouldn't make it past the forum auto edit! I think he got the message and I will continue to shoot with him because I think he's taken in what I had to say. He is new to the sport and unfortunately hasn't had a great deal of training. I spoke to a mate about it just yesterday and we both agreed that I should have screamed and fallen on the floor - that really would have set it in his mind for the future. As far as tighter controls are concerned I would like to see people needing to have at least a basic letter signed off by a clay ground or rifle club to say that they had received basic safety instruction. It wouldn't have to state that they were safe, only that they had at least had the rules explained to them and used a gun safely at that time. Banning guns would result in more people being shot with illegal guns or stabbed etc. If you lose the plot and decide to kill someone it's going to happen no matter what restrictions are in place. You don't need any controlled items to take a life - a tin of baked beans will do the trick if you're desperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I don't know anyone who shouldn't have guns but do. The system works pretty well in that respect I think, although how this latest chap could threaten to shoot himself and have his guns three years later is beyond me. That sort of action ought to have your guns taken away for a considerable time. If you read the report the police it came down to one persons word against the other (one an FAC/SGC holding Taxi driver) who wrote to the police requesting the return of their property. So without hindsight i recon 90% of PW would be behind any cert holder who loses guns due to something allegedly said in a heated debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I bet there are low-budget journalists reading this thread right now, expect a story "60% of shooters know of a licensed firearm owner who is unfit to hold them". For our next trick, let's all shoot ourselves in the foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I bet there are low-budget journalists reading this thread right now, expect a story "60% of shooters know of a licensed firearm owner who is unfit to hold them". For our next trick, let's all shoot ourselves in the foot. I don't think even they are stupid enough to quote a forum as fact..... besides shooters are not the giver and taker away of licences.... The Police are our opinion of our fellow shooters has no bearing on proceedings. The really worrying one is the people who rang up saying they were scared becuase a family member held guns. I'll wager £50 that was made up for the hype..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 If you read the report the police it came down to one persons word against the other (one an FAC/SGC holding Taxi driver) who wrote to the police requesting the return of their property. So without hindsight i recon 90% of PW would be behind any cert holder who loses guns due to something allegedly said in a heated debate. Can't argue with that. I thought that there was solid evidence of the guy saying it - if not then I agree with you 100%. My fault for being misled by the media.... Happy to admit that I should know better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Can't argue with that. I thought that there was solid evidence of the guy saying it - if not then I agree with you 100%. My fault for being misled by the media.... Happy to admit that I should know better! 2 people in a room one says they said it, the other denies it, without CCTV or 3rd party corobaration its as my primary teacher used to say "6 of one, half a dozen of the other" EDIT: I wasn't in the room either so can only go on what was reported.... There is a fair chance the person was a member of a forum or visited one. Are we culpable ? No as it isn't our job to liscence shooters this is where people suggesting BASC or similar should get involved is none sense . This all happened according to procedure the IPCC will investigate, I just hope their report is made public. Edited January 5, 2012 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sco77w Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Rob of the SPAS12 threads! (and his FAC, assuming he has them) from his first post at the begining of last year all he has asked about is the SPAS and after a few people saying that the folding stock isn't legal in England he post in the wants for a folding stock for a SPAS12 that I assume he now owns. Just to top it off he's now asking how suitable they are for sporting clays. Is he for real? Just for the record if I had one and obviously had clearance to use it on the clays I would have been straight down the clay ground just for the craic. it doesn't take a genius to know a combat type shotgun isn't going to be the best sporter out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I don't think even they are stupid enough to quote a forum as fact..... besides shooters are not the giver and taker away of licences.... The Police are our opinion of our fellow shooters has no bearing on proceedings. The really worrying one is the people who rang up saying they were scared becuase a family member held guns. I'll wager £50 that was made up for the hype..... since when has a journalist allowed facts to get in the way of a good story? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appollo Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 if you sat having a coffee in our gun club you would prob say none of them should hold a straw never mind fac/sgc it's all rambo bull, think i the only live quarry shooter in there but their all waiting for the zombie invasion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 if you sat having a coffee in our gun club you would prob say none of them should hold a straw never mind fac/sgc it's all rambo bull, think i the only live quarry shooter in there but their all waiting for the zombie invasion That made me laugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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