Livefast123 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Nice to see them playing etc before they get 243'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Ok i can see both sides ( i will keep my comments to myself ) But why the **** would you try calling them if you are going to take care of them in another week :blink: What was you going to do if they come running in :bye2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Cracking Vid pete, I can understand both sides but as many have said its your shout... I would hate to think people stopped putting video's up because of insults, some may find them funny, but if people stop then the site becomes boring. good luck Pete and thanks for sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 But why the **** would you try calling them if you are going to take care of them in another week :blink: education :yp: 3 fox dens ...... why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Well personally i would have nailed the vixen on the hole immediately she showed given that I had a suitable weapon to hand, then as many of the cubs as I could. Take them while you can especially the adults. I had 7 cubs in one heap recently, waited 2 weeks for an adult to show, when none showed and the cubs were getting bigger Vermincinerator nailed 4 of the bigger cubs, now the rest have been moved. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Well personally i would have nailed the vixen on the hole immediately she showed given that I had a suitable weapon to hand, then as many of the cubs as I could. Take them while you can especially the adults. A Indeed Geoff, especially as there are two other active dens on the same farm local wildlife must be taking a hammering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Ok i can see both sides ( i will keep my comments to myself ) But why the **** would you try calling them if you are going to take care of them in another week :blink: What was you going to do if they come running in :bye2: exactly why would you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant8681 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 I get why most people are of the opinion to get rid a.s.a.p, I dont get why frenchieboy is copping flack for this vid though. If he wants to appreciate the wildlife on his permission then so be it, I enjoy going to some of mine, sitting back and watching what is going on. I will be out in september shooting foxes so im in no way against it but taking out very young cubs is not everyones cup of tea. My four year old enjoyed the vid, I think its important for him to appreciate what wildlife is around him before he starts to shoot and this little vid helps a bit so thank you frenchie! :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) I get why most people are of the opinion to get rid a.s.a.p, I dont get why frenchieboy is copping flack for this vid though. If he wants to appreciate the wildlife on his permission then so be it, My opinion is.....you either cull foxes because they are doing damage to stock or wildlife, in which case you cull them at EVERY opportunity. Or you kill foxes for sporting pleasure, which is wrong! Taking nice videos and not shooting them until they are a little older = saving them for sporting pleasure. Edited June 15, 2012 by Browning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 I get why most people are of the opinion to get rid a.s.a.p, I dont get why frenchieboy is copping flack for this vid though. If he wants to appreciate the wildlife on his permission then so be it, I enjoy going to some of mine, sitting back and watching what is going on. I will be out in september shooting foxes so im in no way against it but taking out very young cubs is not everyones cup of tea. My four year old enjoyed the vid, I think its important for him to appreciate what wildlife is around him before he starts to shoot and this little vid helps a bit so thank you frenchie! :good: I don't think anyone is having a proper go at Frenchie just pointing out the facts 3 litters on one farm will be devastating to the local wildlife especially if they have anything ground nesting. Shooting is about learning and yes in areas you can leave foxes be but really once you decide to there is no point then shooting them as the damage has been done and the majority of the foxes moved off your ground. We have a certain reason to be allowed to shoot on ground and leaving vermin around is fine but the benefits of removing them early are huge. We have great populations of english partridges and Brown hares both species allegedly struggling but not here and there is one reason for that the foxes get clobbered hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) Ahh I understand, frenchie is planning a walked up fox shoot..... What I don't understand is that the land owner has told him to deal with them. Even if you wanted to leave a few, out of 3 active fox earths with cubs on the same permission, that to me would be get rid of two and leave the third. Starting with the one in clear view. On one of my perms the land owner has lost in the region of 100 lambs to vermin. If he told me to thin the vermin out and I turned up with a camcorder he'd think I'd lost the plot and he'd phone the men in white coats. A great finish to the vid would have been to see the .223 do what it's made to do. One thing I've learnt about foxes is that there is always one to fill anothers place so they don't need conservation methods on any shoot. Personally I think it's irresponsible to other endangered wildlife to allow foxes to become established on any permission. As a result of thorough vermin control on my permission we have a growing population of curlews, lapwings, snipe, hares/leverets etc. And anyone with a reasonable understanding and heart for conservation wouldn't tolerate one family of foxes never mind three. This is why Frenchie's conservation videos frustrate me, because it looks like he is encouraging vermin to prosper. Edited June 15, 2012 by lee-kinsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Ahh I understand, frenchie is planning a walked up fox shoot..... What I don't understand is that the land owner has told him to deal with them. Even if you wanted to leave a few, out of 3 active fox earths with cubs on the same permission, that to me would be get rid of two and leave the third. Starting with the one in clear view. On one of my perms the land owner has lost in the region of 100 lambs to vermin. If he told me to thin the vermin out and I turned up with a camcorder he'd think I'd lost the plot and he'd phone the men in white coats. A great finish to the vid would have been to see the .223 do what it's made to do. One thing I've learnt about foxes is that there is always one to fill anothers place so they don't need conservation methods on any shoot. Personally I think it's irresponsible to other endangered wildlife to allow foxes to become established on any permission. As a result of thorough vermin control on my permission we have a growing population of curlews, lapwings, snipe, hares/leverets etc. And anyone with a reasonable understanding and heart for conservation wouldn't tolerate one family of foxes never mind three. This is why Frenchie's conservation videos frustrate me, because it looks like he is encouraging vermin to prosper. Having looked at the video and replies…( to be honest I could have guessed the content due to the title) Foxes predate on what they can when they can, and they learn very quickly! By leaving them until “ they are ready” will only increase the chance of them being moved or them moving on to a piece of land where you cant get at them. I can only guess that the lack of response in not taking them out, is relative to the commitment to protect the young birds, leverets, nesting game, and any lambs being born very shortly. People gain permission from land owners with the commitment to protect crops and stock. You can’t kill every pigeon, crow, rabbit etc as there would be nothing left. However the farmer gives you the opportunity, so if it presents its self then you should act on it…. I am quite sure that if you called the farmer up and mentioned you could have bowled over a couple of foxes but decided to leave them until next time….well! We let pigeons build up so there is a greater number to kill in one field, as a dead pigeon is like a dead fox, it wont eat any more…. I would have shot the vixen as she sat then knocked the cubs over as they sniffed around her…. TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) OK Guys, I have been watching the replies, some of which I quite expected so now I will address the main ones: TEH asks "Why not leave the camera at home and take the gun"? Simply because the farmer had said that the "culling" should be left till the cubs had near enough finished weaning. With this in mind I have been keeping a discreet eye on the earth (From a good distance through binoculars) and decided that the time was about right for "culling"! I took the camera instead of the gun so that I could record of their progress and to justify the cull! Magman asks - Why call them if you didn't intend to shoot them? I decided to try a call to see if they were developing their "hunting instinct", clearly by the response from the cubs they were not interested so I do not believe that it was "educating them"! I accpet that this might not have been the best plan of action but if they had shown any response whatsoever I would have stopped calling them immediately - This was a chance that I decided to take which could have turned round and bitten me on the bach side - But it didn't! Alycidon says that he had 7 cubs in a heap and then another shooter took another 4! That is one heck of a big litter, I would suggest that there was more than one litter there! Browning says: You either cull because they are doing damage to livestock or wildlife, in which case you cull them at EVERY opportunity! In reply to this the farmer was certain that he had not lost any lambs to "predators" this season. He had lost a few chickens, but not any more than he would have expected to so it suggests that the foxes had been surviving on rabbits which, if this is the case then they were doing some good on the land. The landowner has also stated that he does not want all foxes "eliminated" from his land! Lee Kinsman says that if the landowner has told me to deal with them I should have done so straight away, and if I had turned up with a camcorder then the "men in white coats" should have been called! The situation has been regularly discussed with the farmer and he agrees with my actions and timing therefore don't think that there is any need for "the men in white coats"! As a generalisation the way that I see it (Which might differ from the way that others see it) I am and have been acting in accordance with what the farmer wants and as such I can guarantee that my permission is perfectly safe and I always have has and still do have an excellent working relationship with this farmer! If he tells me that he would not like them shot till they are weaned then I am not going to go against his wishes. The same applies to the two other earths. One had just a vixen and just two (Very under developed) cubs on it which was found to have been "vacated" a week or so after I spotted it (From a reasonable distance without any disturbance) so as far as we (The farmer and me) are concerned that one is out of the frame - The second one is in very deep cover and is almost impossible to spot let alone shoot till they all really do start showing themselves regularly, a situation that will almost certainly have to be done on the lamp or just on or after dawn. I have tried to address the main points that have been raised here and I have had to make the decisions accordingly! Some of my decisions you might still well disagree with but that is your perigative! In conclusion it strikes me that there are several different types of people on here that have offered replies! There are some that give the impression that "the only good fox is a dead fox", there are a few that give the impression that everything that is listed as either "vermin" or "a pest" should be shot in sight, and there are some that just want to spend their time trying to fault others! Neither I nor the farmer in question believe in the principal that "The only good fox is a dead fox" - I never have and never will. If that is a principal that you want to believe in then that is your choice. If you want to use the "mindset" that every thing that is classed as vermin or that is "legal to shoot" should be shot immediately on sight then that is your choice but it is certainly not a choice that I would ever opt for! As for those that just live to try to fault others, what can I say? I have recently found that I have grown much thicker skin and I have been able to start recognising the "Finding fault just for the sport of it" brigade so I am not going to "bite" or "play along with them", I have better and more constructive things to do with my time! Edit: Just to add for those that think my videos are pointless or a load of rubbish and a waste of your time watching them! There is a simple answer/solution to that: On your computor screen there is a pointer, this is known as a "Cursor". The cursor is controlled by your mouse. Your mouse is controlled by your hand! Unless you have some form of disability you are in complete controll of your mouse and cursor, and you decide what you allow it to click on to. If you don't like the videos that I do then don't click on to them! Edited June 15, 2012 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 OK Guys, I have been watching the replies, some of which I quite expected so now I will address the main ones: TEH asks "Why not leave the camera at home and take the gun"? Simply because the farmer had said that the "culling" should be left till the cubs had near enough finished weaning. With this in mind I have been keeping a discreet eye on the earth (From a good distance through binoculars) and decided that the time was about right for "culling"! I took the camera instead of the gun so that I could record of their progress and to justify the cull! Magman asks - Why call them if you didn't intend to shoot them? I decided to try a call to see if they were developing their "hunting instinct", clearly by the response from the cubs they were not interested so I do not believe that it was "educating them"! I accpet that this might not have been the best plan of action but if they had shown any response whatsoever I would have stopped calling them immediately - This was a chance that I decided to take which could have turned round and bitten me on the bach side - But it didn't! Alycidon says that he had 7 cubs in a heap and then another shooter took another 4! That is one heck of a big litter, I would suggest that there was more than one litter there! Browning says: You either cull because they are doing damage to livestock or wildlife, in which case you cull them at EVERY opportunity! In reply to this the farmer was certain that he had not lost any lambs to "predators" this season. He had lost a few chickens, but not any more than he would have expected to so it suggests that the foxes had been surviving on rabbits which, if this is the case then they were doing some good on the land. The landowner has also stated that he does not want all foxes "eliminated" from his land! Lee Kinsman says that if the landowner has told me to deal with them I should have done so straight away, and if I had turned up with a camcorder then the "men in white coats" should have been called! The situation has been regularly discussed with the farmer and he agrees with my actions and timing therefore don't think that there is any need for "the men in white coats"! As a generalisation the way that I see it (Which might differ from the way that others see it) I am and have been acting in accordance with what the farmer wants and as such I can guarantee that my permission is perfectly safe and I always have has and still do have an excellent working relationship with this farmer! If he tells me that he would not like them shot till they are weaned then I am not going to go against his wishes. The same applies to the two other earths. One had just a vixen and just two (Very under developed) cubs on it which was found to have been "vacated" a week or so after I spotted it (From a reasonable distance without any disturbance) so as far as we (The farmer and me) are concerned that one is out of the frame - The second one is in very deep cover and is almost impossible to spot let alone shoot till they all really do start showing themselves regularly, a situation that will almost certainly have to be done on the lamp or just on or after dawn. I have tried to address the main points that have been raised here and I have had to make the decisions accordingly! Some of my decisions you might still well disagree with but that is your perigative! In conclusion it strikes me that there are several different types of people on here that have offered replies! There are some that give the impression that "the only good fox is a dead fox", there are a few that give the impression that everything that is listed as either "vermin" or "a pest" should be shot in sight, and there are some that just want to spend their time trying to fault others! Neither I nor the farmer in question believe in the principal that "The only good fox is a dead fox" - I never have and never will. If that is a principal that you want to believe in then that is your choice. If you want to use the "mindset" that every thing that is classed as vermin or that is "legal to shoot" should be shot immediately on sight then that is your choice but it is certainly not a choice that I would ever opt for! As for those that just live to try to fault others, what can I say? I have recently found that I have grown much thicker skin and I have been able to start recognising the "Finding fault just for the sport of it" brigade so I am not going to "bite" or "play along with them", I have better and more constructive things to do with my time! A good call Pete, but a justification is not required. Remember the John Lydgate words later modified by President Lincoln..... BTW, I still use your fox caller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30-6 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Well done Frenchie boy, it was your shout and you done what you thought was correct, nothing wrong with that I agree some seem to want to shoot "anything legal" whether justified or not, like you i am not one of those. I can understand that to protect a syndicates future harvest foxes must be "shot on sight", but a lot of farmers like to have a fox or two about to keep down the rabbits or rats etc. I have said in other posts many times that i am not a "dedicated" fox shooter but will shoot a problem fox when asked to do so. I do not shoot game and i have no problem with other shooters dealing with foxes as they see fit, but me personally, i don't shoot everone on sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Well said FB,i think people should just enjoy the video for what it was put up for. I like your attitude towards wildlife in general,ie. everything doesn't have to be shot on sight. I too have left cubs until older,but i have also shot them young when the need has arisen. On a negative note though,i do think you where wrong to call.Although the cubs weren't interested,what if the Vixen suddenly appeared next to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss.tony Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 nice vid Pete ill stick my 2 pences worth in for what its worth who cares what this lot think or the antis or the women down rd its your land / farmers you do with it how you seam fit as long as farmers happy with what you so be it half of this lot on here who knock you mate don't Evan own a gun as long as your happy that s all what count so **** em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 welldone fb keep the videos comeing and dnt mind the bad comments you do what the land owner wants as i do one of mine dose not want any foxes shot and thats his right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn2233 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 nice vid Pete ill stick my 2 pences worth in for what its worth who cares what this lot think or the antis or the women down rd its your land / farmers you do with it how you seam fit as long as farmers happy with what you so be it half of this lot on here who knock you mate don't Evan own a gun as long as your happy that s all what count so **** em I'm with Swiss here sod half the clowns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikka.223 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 nice vid Pete ill stick my 2 pences worth in for what its worth who cares what this lot think or the antis or the women down rd its your land / farmers you do with it how you seam fit as long as farmers happy with what you so be it half of this lot on here who knock you mate don't Evan own a gun as long as your happy that s all what count so **** em What he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatGun Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 I had a farmer call me 3 weeks back regarding an earth hed found. It was 100 yards from the lambing field and the ewes and lambs had recently been turned out. It was well hidden and only the long grass which had been flattened by the cubs playing had gave their presence away. I went down and removed them as hed asked. Not sporting by any means and not a very nice task in general but very necessary.There were 5 in total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy bingo Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 i say vote swiss for pm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy220 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Good reply frenchie, I ha e been reading the flak you have been getting and it just goes to prove there are some real bitches on here. When you are good and ready, then have your time. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 i say vote swiss for pm OH PLEASE !!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 I think on this subjest we should take into account the type of permission we have, ALx4 has said on his perm they raise young pheasants etc etc so I can totally understand his view, frenchi has set out his morals and views also understandale, those with lambs would have a good point.. my perm is mainly cattle ..foxs don't seem to be a problem ,they also keep the bunnies down..which we have plenty of my mate in south wales has 11 miles of valley that is prime sheep country..they want every fox seen shot, and as soon as he has shot one , another seems to take its place I personally enjoyed the vids and even found the call educational... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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