SneakyD Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I accept not everyone has a positive experience with the police. I don't see what an armed response for pigeon shooters has to do with being fitted up though. It's not good but what have the results been? I don't think any have ended in an arrest let alone a prosecution for anything. The point I was making was that it is entirely possible for innocent people to have negative experiences with the police. Not that they would be 'fitted up'. When innocent people have negative experience with authority it can give them a jaded and sceptical view of the authority. I don't agree. Take Offensive Weapon as a topical example. If a police officer suspects you are in possession of an Offensive Weapon and you don't offer a lawful reason then you are going to be arrested. If on the other hand you tell them what it is for your good reason has been offered from the outset. This may not avoid the arrest but it stands a better chance than silence. The so called 'Offensive Weapon' example, proves perfectly why people who are not legal trained should not speak to the police without legal representation. bi9johnny has said "I realise that it is my own doing having the offensive weapon in my car". The problem with this statement is that it not true. He has accepted the police officers description for expediency, little realising that in doing so he has falsely confessed to a crime. The police may or may not prosecute him for the crime he is falsely confessing to. But why should it be in their hands? With a little legal advice he would have known that a humane dispatch tool carried lawfully without any intention to use it as a weapon, should never be described as an offensive weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Yeah, to be fair you'd have to be a bit 'challenged' to refuse to answer questions if you're not guilty of anything. As far as im aware SACS advise you to answer no questions until you are represented.With the way the law is now,i would go by this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul700r Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Sorry to hear about all your trouble jonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyD Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 And for the people who distrust American attorneys, perhaps a British police officer might convince you: Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 And for the people who distrust American attorneys, perhaps a British police officer might convince you: Link Thank you for that link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDown Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I haven't said confess to anything. Offering a lawful reason to have something is not the same as an admission of guilt. The police don't prosecute anyone. That is the CPS's job. A priest is an offensive weapon, it is what it is designed for. You may have a lawful excuse to carry one. An interview is required to establish if there was one. Legal advice is free at the police station before this point. I agree with NightJack that a brief is a must but not saying anything and triggering the process seems foolhardy to me. I think you are confusing questions at the roadside with being interviewed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyD Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I haven't said confess to anything. Offering a lawful reason to have something is not the same as an admission of guilt. The police don't prosecute anyone. That is the CPS's job. A priest is an offensive weapon, it is what it is designed for. You may have a lawful excuse to carry one. An interview is required to establish if there was one. Legal advice is free at the police station before this point. I agree with NightJack that a brief is a must but not saying anything and triggering the process seems foolhardy to me. I think you are confusing questions at the roadside with being interviewed. A humane dispatch tool is not an offensive weapon. It is designed to dispatch wounded game. When a police officer describes a humane dispatch tool as an offensive weapon and say they will be arresting you on Monday as is the case here, then it is time to be silent and seek legal advice. I do not think I am confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) A humane dispatch tool is not an offensive weapon. It is designed to dispatch wounded game. When a police officer describes a humane dispatch tool as an offensive weapon and say they will be arresting you on Monday as is the case here, then it is time to be silent and seek legal advice. I do not think I am confused. Simples as that.If this had happened to me and i had been told the things you highlight i wouldnt open my mooth to them again until the corrrect people are involved. That people are of course the Masonic Lodge. Edited August 5, 2012 by sako751sg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 And for the people who distrust American attorneys, perhaps a British police officer might convince you: Link Very interesting link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Simples as that.If this had happened to me and i had been told the things you highlight i wouldnt open my mooth to them again until the corrrect people are involved. That people are of course the Masonic Lodge. Now, now brother Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Many many years ago I visited my brother after not seeing him for yonks. He picked me up at the bus station late at night and as we pulled up at his house he spotted a cop car going past us. The cops eyeballed us and pulled over. My brother said 'oh no it's the same one who did me last week for a bald tyre and no insurance' The cops asked him if he's sorted it and he said no, one asked me if I knew he had a bald tyre and no insurance: I replied 'yea - he's just told me as you approached us' I got charged for aiding and abetting and the fact that he had just told me still saw me get convicted with my licence endorsed after I pleaded not guilty in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bi9johnny Posted August 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Sorry to hear about all your trouble jonny thanx for that mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Hi Johnny have you been intouch with your shooting org for advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 A humane dispatch tool is not an offensive weapon. What you are missing is that it wasn't a humane despatch tool it was an offensive weapon, realistically it no doubt was being carried just in case hence being easy to hand. A priest is a short weighted item for knocking birds on the head this wasn't hence the problem. Under the circumstances I would think most coppers would have said what they did to shake the OP up a bit and prosecution was unlikely, but if it happens then stick to the flimsy excuse and cross your fingers. It will come up at renewal but as it wasn't used and could be argued it was for shooting then there is no real justification for a revoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) if he's not charged they cant use it at renewal as he will not have been convicted of anything, he wont be obliged to mention it Edited August 6, 2012 by storme37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamish64 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Go online, print out a couple of ads for priests, to show them. Many cops, solicitors etc, will not be aware that they are readily and legally available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheatingRabbit Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) I think you are confusing questions at the roadside with being interviewed. This. If they haven't cautioned you ("If you do not mention anything that you subsequently rely on in court blah blah") then the police cannot present what you say as evidence. Until that point you should offer a lawful excuse. After that, decline to answer until you have legal representation. As I see it - the caution is the point that you should stay quiet, but before that offer as much help as you can! Of course, I am not a lawyer, so independant legal advice would be better than my POV CR Edit for typos Edited August 6, 2012 by CheatingRabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini52 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Good luck mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colliwobbles Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Speaking as a police officer, a couple of things spring to mind. Firstly the officers have alienated the witness to their case. Why would you help them and support them with the threat of this in the background. Secondly if you can show lawful reason for having the priest in the car, ie despatch of wounded/injured animals etc, used for game keeping or what the dog picks up you won't have a problem as the other tools of the trade would support this, dummy launcher etc. despite what others have said never go no comment. Unfortunately no comment is a presumption of guilt and cps/police guidelines are to offer caution or charge. If you've got nothing to hide then tell them that, I you say nothing you're opening the can of worms. Never accept a caution, you're admitting the offence and always have a solicitor present. Lastly due to the law now stating we have to not only have a reason and necessity to arrest you, we have to exPlain to you the reason for an arrest. IMHO the necessity to arrest has passed so the option would be to invite you in for a VA (voluntary interview) at a convenient date/time for you, which gives time to arrange a solicitor etc. I can only speak personally... And it's easy to say but I wouldn't overly worry I've known people caught actually committing a crime who've walked. Hope it works out for you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 If they haven't cautioned you ("If you do not mention anything that you subsequently rely on in court blah blah") then the police cannot present what you say as evidence. Until that point you should offer a lawful excuse. After that, decline to answer until you have legal representation. agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeredup Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Speaking as a police officer, a couple of things spring to mind. Firstly the officers have alienated the witness to their case. Why would you help them and support them with the threat of this in the background. Secondly if you can show lawful reason for having the priest in the car, ie despatch of wounded/injured animals etc, used for game keeping or what the dog picks up you won't have a problem as the other tools of the trade would support this, dummy launcher etc. despite what others have said never go no comment. Unfortunately no comment is a presumption of guilt and cps/police guidelines are to offer caution or charge. If you've got nothing to hide then tell them that, I you say nothing you're opening the can of worms. Never accept a caution, you're admitting the offence and always have a solicitor present. Lastly due to the law now stating we have to not only have a reason and necessity to arrest you, we have to exPlain to you the reason for an arrest. IMHO the necessity to arrest has passed so the option would be to invite you in for a VA (voluntary interview) at a convenient date/time for you, which gives time to arrange a solicitor etc. I can only speak personally... And it's easy to say but I wouldn't overly worry I've known people caught actually committing a crime who've walked. Hope it works out for you!! Well said!! it does seem that "some" officers seem to have a very loose grip on the facts of the law and seem to interpret them from their own twisted visions of what the law should be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Ok the difference here is what you can and cannot carry, its blatantly obvious whats an offensive weapon and what isn't. In this case given the circumstances hopefully they will forget about it but if you want something in the side pocket in case pf issues use a large maglite instead as you won't get nicked for having it to hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin128 Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 What about a multi tool that has a small blade in it...in your tool bag that is always in your boot to fix your car when it breaks??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin128 Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Put a long torch with non rechargeable heavy batteries in it in your glove compartment so that you can see wheel nuts in the dark...and of course you need a long lady brace in the boot to change a tyre...my wheels are torqed to over 100 ft lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bi9johnny Posted August 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 thanks again chaps for your input ....the police officer said he would be in touch monday and i got to 5mins to 5 last night and thought ahh they are not going to do anything and the phone rang guess what he said he will come to my house thursday after work at 5pm to arrest me and sort it out....... quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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