henry d Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Firstly this isn`t aimed at any one particular individual, just the mob attitude that sometimes persists on contentious subjects. OK, when I started to reload I read a lot of books about reloading and I consulted those who seemed to know a lot about it on this forum and read lots of posts here and elsewhere. I also asked those in the community near me who reload all about it and through these avenues I learned how to safely reload. I avoided the people who said things like “My mate says…” or “I`m not sure, I don`t think it will matter…” and I found out from several sources so that I could safely and confidently reload and get accurate and deadly results. When it comes to religion there seems to be a different method of finding out the truth and yes I suppose there were a few (especially last night) that had a couple of sherries too many after dinner. I too was one of these people, who had only hearsay and mockery to attack religious belief with, yet after a visit to my local church I found out I was wrong about a lot of things. That`s why I used my cranium to find out which was right and which was wrong, and in all honesty, it was me that was wrong. When people just quote things that they have either heard or seen elsewhere on the `tinterweb or in the pub or from there mate and spew it out as a truth then it has to be either down right stupidity or just plain mockery and that isn`t on. If you wish to debate the Judges period of the bible, go away and research it FULLY and I suggest you do this from both sides so as to get an overview, that way you will be able to formulate an unbiased and logical argument or answer. Go to people that may have a little more knowledge than yourself, read widely on the topic, reflect on it all and form a conclusion. That is what I did to enable me to reload safely and efficiently and also how I came to find out I was in error in my thinking about religion. If anyone still wishes to debate religion then fine, no problems, but please form a coherent argument first that is balanced and informed. If you want to mock me and my religion then fine fill ya boots I won`t respond as fully as before I will just point out the errors in red and leave it up to you to either research it or just not bother and stay ignorant by going back to your erroneous thoughts and beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Surely religion is all about faith - "strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof ". I would never knock a man for having religion or not having it. I applaud your faith and your convictions. Fair play to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted September 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Love for others and faith,yes indeed. Off to work seeya laters. Edited September 21, 2012 by henry d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty7247 Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Everyone belives in something, Never knock a man for what he belives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robl Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Did we really need another thread about this? Remember. The first rule of God Club is that YOU MUST talk about god club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Technically an Athiest believes in something! Even though it is in the lack of a higher authority. Edited September 21, 2012 by Lord Geordie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 was it a bad time in your life that took you to church thats why most people go and find god it seems, im not about to start reading the bible so i can chat about it on a forum im not that interested i just watch what others write and maybe ask a few questions on points i find interesting in the argument.. for the record i dont care what people believe in i have friends from quite a few faiths. personaly i feel if i lead a good life and dont hurt others i should be ok if theres an after life and as every religion claims to have the true god i think i will give church a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Each to their own, I think its fantastic that we live in a country where you can believe in what you like. As long as another individual or groups beliefs and actions don't effect me I couldn't give a toss really. The only thing that makes me despair is seeing someone try and defend and old Jewish story book and all of its fictional characters and events, and when the literal written prose is too obscene even for them they resort to 'a deeper meaning or understanding' to justify such stories. As a scientist and ex-religious adult I just struggle to believe the same bedtime stories that I was read on a Sunday all those years ago now I have had some education! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 i will however admit i do sometimes wonder weather us non believers miss out on something in terms of community spirit i have noticed the jewish community stick together and help each other and have close familys.as i believe is often the way with other religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robl Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 I’d suggest that a lot of what is missed isn’t so much a religious thing as a community one. (although in same cases it’s hard to split the two apart) The religion just gives a common ground, and the church, mosque, synagogue, temple gives a place to meet people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 i will however admit i do sometimes wonder weather us non believers miss out on something in terms of community spirit i have noticed the jewish community stick together and help each other and have close familys.as i believe is often the way with other religions. Practicing Christians go to church on their day off , the Jewish man his synagogue, the muslim his mosque, where they task part in a group activity with like minded others crossing social divides and diverse age ranges. business links and social bonds get formed there. They all dismiss the views of people that have opposing or no religeon as wrong. Personally on a sunday i go to my clay club where i also task part in a group activity, with like minded others, crossing social divides and diverse age ranges. I have made good fiends. I have made business contacts. I dismiss the anti for being feckless vegetarian treehuggers who where subjected to too much Walt Disney as a kid Guess that makes me a shooter . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted September 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Everyone belives in something, Never knock a man for what he belives. Thanks for that, a good start. Did we really need another thread about this? Remember. The first rule of God Club is that YOU MUST talk about god club. Nope not in my church, unless someone asks me about God/Jesus/etc. first. Technically an Athiest believes in something! Even though it is in the lack of a higher authority. Yay, another sensible post, it would also be right to say that an athiest has a belief and therefore faith? was it a bad time in your life that took you to church thats why most people go and find god it seems...... Nope, if that were the case I would have needed God in 1982 during the Falklands and other life changing moments in my life, no it was during a time in my life when I was neither up nor down. I’d suggest that a lot of what is missed isn’t so much a religious thing as a community one. (although in same cases it’s hard to split the two apart) The religion just gives a common ground, and the church, mosque, synagogue, temple gives a place to meet people. Most of my meeting people happens where they are, streets etc. and therefore that is my church, rather than a brick building and it is something many want to shake off. No I`m not a Mormon, JW etc. etc. I`m not really comfortable with my denomination as it could change in a split second. Practicing Christians go to church on their day off , the Jewish man his synagogue, the muslim his mosque, where they task part in a group activity with like minded others crossing social divides and diverse age ranges. business links and social bonds get formed there. They all dismiss the views of people that have opposing or no religeon as wrong. .........Guess that makes me a shooter . Oh No! and it was going so well! Using the same logic you are a Thomas Hamilton/Michael Ryan gun fanatic who shouldn`t be let near children, and so am I. Edited September 21, 2012 by henry d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'm also of the opinion that people can and should be able to believe and have faith in what they like if it gives them comfort. I take a very simplistic view, I have faith in myself and those close to me, I don't need to believe in anything else that may or may not exist. You're born, you grow up and do the best you can, you die. That's what I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikky Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 dont believe in god or any other being.....in.my early years ( 10 yrs ) i was brought up in nigeria and lived through the biafran civil war...i saw things a 10 yr old should never have seen..i thought then that there couldnt be a god...if so how could he let people suffer like that...............we moved to kenya and in recent years tribal warfare has once again reared its head.....but i dont have a problem with anyone else beliefs....you never know...when i am on my last breath i might change my mind mikky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 A colleague and friend of mine of Tamil origin currently living in Chennai sent this to me during a discussion on my recovery from a recent cycling accident, I'm sure he won't mind me sharing here... <quote>Trust the God inside you, who took care of you during your bad times (for instance as soon as we are born, we come with no prior experience, but he made us to cry for everything we need and made different people to give what is required for us to grow! He taught our mother to understand the meaning for different cry, did they got prior experience when they give birth to their first child etc). He will make it alright. Just trust him and do what you can do your best </quote> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) As I've said before,I don't believe in God,and I find it hard to understand why a rational,highly inteligent person will for most day to day practical issues use that inteligence to apply logic and reason to deal with day to day issues,and then claim to believe in some unearthly,fantasy entity which relies totally on faith for its existence.How come there are so many Gods?What happened to all the Gods worshipped by ancient peoples who were then converted to Christianity at the point of a sword?Did they not matter?Did they cease to exist the moment no-one longer believed in them? I attended the funeral of the wife of a close friend just over a week ago.She committed suicide in the most spectacular fashion.She was brought up a Catholic,but didn't practise,and part of her husbands tribute to her was the fact she had become what she called a 'humanist',and simply believed in the inherent goodness within people. It was a very large funeral as she was dearly loved by all and sundry;the woven casket was carried to the front of the venue to the sound of Ramsteiner(?)which we all had a good laugh at,and there were no prayers or hymns.Her sister had tried to insist on a traditional Catholic church service,but was politely told the service would br conducted as the deceased had wished. I found it very sad that although the sister attended the funeral,she felt she could not attend the service and left the building before the service began and could be seen walking around the grounds while all inside paid tribute.Education,not indoctrination. While I believe that if the world were to end tomorrow,the Gods would die along with the rest of us,I respect (but remain baffled) your beliefs and admire your capacity to remain polite and reasonable in the face of some posts. I no longer reload,but did exactly the same as you when I did. Edited September 21, 2012 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 When I start reloading I'll pray I've got the quantities right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 To me, it's obvious that God exists - because we have millions of witnesses who will tell you so. Are they all lying ? Unlikely. How many witnesses do you need before you believe something ? Would anyone deny that Love exists ? Some people never experience it, some people do. I'm more interested in the nature of God. I don't believe God is a supernatural all-powerful being, I have seen no evidence of this at all, but I'm open to the possibility - to deny that supernatural entity is as illogical as to insist it exists without proof. To me, it's more likely that God exists in our subconscious mind - the huge part of our mind that has "a life of it's own" - and appears when needed by the conscious mind. I've known a few religious people and to a man / woman they discovered God after a personal crisis, like an "emergency friend" if you like. I can even see how such an effect could evolve, it's documented how people in dire situations can increase their chance of survival by having a positive mental attitude, what better than a powerful friend speaking to you directly and telling you everything will be OK ? And apart from physical danger people can be terribly hurt by rejection or guilt, what could be better than a God who tells you he loves you and you are forgiven your sins ? As an evolutionary trait God makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 As an evolutionary trait God makes perfect sense...yes its called the Sun.. you can see it, feel it and know 100% its there ...without it...we would no exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 As an evolutionary trait God makes perfect sense...yes its called the Sun.. you can see it, feel it and know 100% its there ...without it...we would no exist We know the subconscious mind exists too, but we don't understand it very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 To me, it's obvious that God exists - because we have millions of witnesses who will tell you so. Are they all lying ? Unlikely. How many witnesses do you need before you believe something ? This is a classic logical fallacy: Argument From Popularity. Millions of people believe or believed in ghosts, homeopathy, a flat earth, tarot cards, psychic Sally, Hitler (yay Godwin's law) Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster. Astrology, free energy...need I go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted September 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 This is a classic logical fallacy: Argument From Popularity. Millions of people believe or believed in ghosts, homeopathy, a flat earth, tarot cards, psychic Sally, Hitler (yay Godwin's law) Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster. Astrology, free energy...need I go on? How many Nessie hunters are prepared to spend every waking minute of their lives actively searching for it and not just an hour or two between shopping trips to fort William and Inverness? How many of psychic Sally`s followers are willing to lay down their way of life and thinking for her? For the next 2000 years for her prophesies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 How many Nessie hunters are prepared to spend every waking minute of their lives actively searching for it and not just an hour or two between shopping trips to fort William and Inverness? How many of psychic Sally`s followers are willing to lay down their way of life and thinking for her? For the next 2000 years for her prophesies? I was just about to write something similar, totally different scale of "belief", Religions evolved all around the world, often independent of each other, some 1000s of years ago. There is obviously a human need to believe in a higher power, and in my opinion it's not unreasonable to think that the subconscious might step forward to supply it. Although we will argue about the nature of God, I really don't think we can claim God doesn't exist or is in the same league as Mystic Meg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted September 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 I was just about to write something similar, totally different scale of "belief", Religions evolved all around the world, often independent of each other, some 1000s of years ago. There is obviously a human need to believe in a higher power, and in my opinion it's not unreasonable to think that the subconscious might step forward to supply it. Maybe we are hardwired for it rather than the other way round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 That is a different argument Henry. I wasn't entering the does he/doesn't he debate, just pointing out that popularlarity does not prove anything. There are many that do spend every waking minute looking for the truth in science, and in other religions. Their dedication to the cause alone does not mean they are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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