TbirdX Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 It's certainly an interesting theory Impala. I make you right, with no jams no need to strip. I'll give it a try myself next time I'm out...which may well be a while but I'll keep an eye on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethejeep Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Evening Gentlemen, Impala and I have had considerable 'off site' correspondence on the possibly by now, slightly boring topic of M37's FTE (failing to extract) Briefly, having used a M37 years ago without problems, and reacquired a tidy mid-70's example last year, I've experienced FTE 1 in 3-4 from the start. Having tried more cartridges than I've had pints of bitter, with no improvement, it enlisted the (Purdey trained) opinion of my local RFD. He checked the head-space, timing and general function/condition, and pronounced it to be 'with-in tolerances. His opinion was that 'modern brass' cartridge material was not what it was was it was, and thinned and of cheaper materials. I've polished the breech up to the forcing cone to a shiny/mirror finish. Whist not doubting his word, I contacted the factory, who's replies, were helpful, but not too specific, but included filling and re-machining the extractor 'windows in the breech face, and others, included changing cartridge. By trial and error I've found that Winchester Super Speed 12ga, 32gr, 70mm with 20mm 'brass' so far function perfectly. Fired 12-15 unaimed shots as fast as I can reload and fire, functioned perfectly, barrel so hot could have cooked breakfast on it! This may not be the engineering answer, but I can only assume that the 'brass' on the bottom of this cartridge is thicker and/or of better quality than other's I've tried and doesn't 'fire form' into the chamber as significantly as others.. Downside is that they're about 50% dearer that other branded ammo. Hope the aforegoing is useful, and thanks to Impala for his input, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Evening Gentlemen, Impala and I have had considerable 'off site' correspondence on the possibly by now, slightly boring topic of M37's FTE (failing to extract) Briefly, having used a M37 years ago without problems, and reacquired a tidy mid-70's example last year, I've experienced FTE 1 in 3-4 from the start. Having tried more cartridges than I've had pints of bitter, with no improvement, it enlisted the (Purdey trained) opinion of my local RFD. He checked the head-space, timing and general function/condition, and pronounced it to be 'with-in tolerances. His opinion was that 'modern brass' cartridge material was not what it was was it was, and thinned and of cheaper materials. I've polished the breech up to the forcing cone to a shiny/mirror finish. Whist not doubting his word, I contacted the factory, who's replies, were helpful, but not too specific, but included filling and re-machining the extractor 'windows in the breech face, and others, included changing cartridge. By trial and error I've found that Winchester Super Speed 12ga, 32gr, 70mm with 20mm 'brass' so far function perfectly. Fired 12-15 unaimed shots as fast as I can reload and fire, functioned perfectly, barrel so hot could have cooked breakfast on it! This may not be the engineering answer, but I can only assume that the 'brass' on the bottom of this cartridge is thicker and/or of better quality than other's I've tried and doesn't 'fire form' into the chamber as significantly as others.. Downside is that they're about 50% dearer that other branded ammo. Hope the aforegoing is useful, and thanks to Impala for his input, Steve Interesting. Some time ago I played with the idea of buying an exceedingly nice Ruger Red Label in 20 bore ( not a pump I know, but bear with me ) and after asking others of their opinions was told that although they were indeed very nice and well made guns, European brass rims now and then tended to bind and so failed to eject. I was told that there were no such issues with American brass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethejeep Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 I forgot to add yesterday that I've never had any 'loose barrel' issues with my '37, there is no gap between the yoke and mag cap, as when I stripped the gun originally, I reassembled with the yoke loose,(as the book-of-words suggests) then hand tightened the mag nut to fix the barrel in place, then using a wooden dowel gently tapped the yoke flush with the mag cap and tightened to lock screw. A handy manual is : Ithaca Models 37 & 87 Jem Enterprises, Belle Fourche SD 57717 www.doeverythingmanual.com ISBN-1-936259-65-6 ........... and at $9.95 each + P&P it won't spoil your social activities either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 http://m.gunstar.co.uk/browning-bps-hunter-16-bore-gauge-shotgun/Shotguns/835347 Think this is a itch that I might have to scratch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBeaky Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 Mmmm, nice. I have that itch that needs scratching as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 Nice! I think I'm goimg to make a collection of all the classic pumps. I have a Wingmaster, so I thought next 1. Supernova ( had one, wish I'd never sold it!) 2. Mossberg 590 ( had a 500 - see above!) 3. Ithaca M37 (an all time classic) 4. Browning BPS 5. Another 870, maybe a 3,5 inch one if I can find one. 6. Some kind of old Winchester Any other suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 http://m.gunstar.co.uk/browning-bps-hunter-16-bore-gauge-shotgun/Shotguns/835347 Nice but out of my pocket money range.... It'd be a nice partner to my 16-ga slug mold too! Think this is a itch that I might have to scratch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChAoS Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 Any other suggestions? Hmmm. Perhaps a Higgins Model 20? It's the top one in the "Red Neck" photo, above the Chiappa 1887: http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/236687-pump-club/page-10?do=findComment&comment=2067304 These are similar to the High Standard Model 200 but were sold by Sears, Roebuck And Company. Very slick... ...with an "interesting" type of choke. There is a *gap* between the "real" muzzle and the start of the choke. Hence, the Yanks don't recommend firing plaswad cartridges thorugh them or, indeed, anything with "petals" that could expand into that gap. Regards, Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 Todays pump pics.... Great pictures there, thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala59 Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) So, the collection grows and I now have my ultimate PSG pumps, two options for 10 + 1................. Top is the Valtro PM5 fitted with Shield dot and circle optic sight, under barrel laser and home modified magazine (one of 5) (factory only offer 7 round capacity) Bottom is section one Ithaca 37 with Black Warrior stock, modified 870 grippy forend, Brownells heatshield and home made fluorescent green tunnel sight ................and the whole pump collection so far Top to bottom Valtro PM5 Ithaca 37 (1971) Ithaca 37 (1965) Browning BPS Squires and Bingham 30 Savage 30E Smith and Wesson 916T Looking for representatives from Remington, Winchester, Mossberg and Marlin (for now) ..........edit on FAC is clause not asked for 'the section one shotguns may also be used for clay pigeon shooting' I don't think so! Edited June 20, 2016 by impala59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala59 Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Evening Gentlemen, Impala and I have had considerable 'off site' correspondence on the possibly by now, slightly boring topic of M37's FTE (failing to extract) Briefly, having used a M37 years ago without problems, and reacquired a tidy mid-70's example last year, I've experienced FTE 1 in 3-4 from the start. Having tried more cartridges than I've had pints of bitter, with no improvement, it enlisted the (Purdey trained) opinion of my local RFD. He checked the head-space, timing and general function/condition, and pronounced it to be 'with-in tolerances. His opinion was that 'modern brass' cartridge material was not what it was was it was, and thinned and of cheaper materials. I've polished the breech up to the forcing cone to a shiny/mirror finish. Whist not doubting his word, I contacted the factory, who's replies, were helpful, but not too specific, but included filling and re-machining the extractor 'windows in the breech face, and others, included changing cartridge. By trial and error I've found that Winchester Super Speed 12ga, 32gr, 70mm with 20mm 'brass' so far function perfectly. Fired 12-15 unaimed shots as fast as I can reload and fire, functioned perfectly, barrel so hot could have cooked breakfast on it! This may not be the engineering answer, but I can only assume that the 'brass' on the bottom of this cartridge is thicker and/or of better quality than other's I've tried and doesn't 'fire form' into the chamber as significantly as others.. Downside is that they're about 50% dearer that other branded ammo. Hope the aforegoing is useful, and thanks to Impala for his input, Steve Hi Steve, Thanks for the cases, I agree very little fire-forming( by my eye anyway), but neither would chamber in either of my 37's. Now I know that means little, but my fired cases will re-chamber. I ran the Winchester cases through the Loadall resizer and they needed a fairly hefty shove to resize. That is partially due to the length of the head and partially to the thickness of the metal, but IMHO the metal is only a few microns thicker. I may rip them down and visit a engineering pal who can measure that small. We will all continue until one of us finds the answer......... or maybe you have, just buy more expensive ammo! As an aside I took a picture of your Winchester case against my preferred Bornaghi case and there is a slight difference in rim profile, with the Winchester seemingly giving more for the extractor to grab, but it is very slight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumbag Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Well folks, The variation is back. Got a 24” rifle sighted slug barrel for the Benelli supernova and picked up some Federal slugs over the weekend. I feel time for some slug shooting! Scrummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumbag Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Nice! I think I'm goimg to make a collection of all the classic pumps. I have a Wingmaster, so I thought next 1. Supernova ( had one, wish I'd never sold it!) 2. Mossberg 590 ( had a 500 - see above!) 3. Ithaca M37 (an all time classic) 4. Browning BPS 5. Another 870, maybe a 3,5 inch one if I can find one. 6. Some kind of old Winchester Any other suggestions? Got a BPS and Supernova, you won't regret getting either again. Always fancied a Winchester Model 12 or an 1897 myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethejeep Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Afternoon Gents, Thanks again for your input Impala, I'm intending to rattle a few more through my '37 at a local charity clay shoot on Sunday, if the rain holds off. I've bee reliably informed that the majority of empty cases are manufactured in Italy and then shipped to the customer for priming, filling etc. Looking on the bottom of the Winchester box it proudly states 'Made in Italy' .................... so 'pick the bones out of that one'? Anyway, so long as they work I dont really care if they're from Timbuktu or else where in the EU! Most of the cartridges which FTE showed significant marks where the smaller extractor had grabbed it. A while ago I think you mentioned Impala, that you had a surplus plain M37 stock & forend. If you'd like to sell it please contact me directly. I'm simply curious, but is the BPS and M37 identical? I've never seen a BPS 'in the metal'. Time to walk the dog and a beer ! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala59 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Hi Steve The BPS shares bottom eject with the 37, but is a totally different animal. The barrel locates in the receiver with an extension that the bolt locks into similar to Rem 870. There is only one extractor on the bottom. the safety is top tang a'la Mossberg and the bolt release is behind the trigger l/h side. Made by Miroku in Japan the metal fit is superb, the wood fit in current guns not so good (early ones have much better fit) They are very solid, a touch on the heavy side, slick (when worked in a little) and dependable. Trigger is fairly heavy but usable. During the trials and tribulations with the 37 all the same ammo cycled faultlessly in the Browning Below my 37's with the '65 wearing the '71's furniture. The '65 wood needs a full restore (and has a small crack) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Folks, Am wanting to sell my Mossberg 500c 20g pump in black with synthetic stock, but how do I work out a value to it ? New they are £490 at the Saddlery and unless you collected your have £25 RFD each end. So what should I use as guidance as I cant find a second second hand one for sale. ATB Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala59 Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) Go with what you feel is right, if its too much the lack of response will soon tell you. To some, a 20g pump is a desirable bit of kit. Check the ratio of 12g new against used for a guide. Is it mint? knocked about? any accessories? Section 1(limited market) or section 2(easier to sell) Add lots of detailed photo's and I hope you get a taker. Me, I'm looking for a 12g mossie 3 shot old slugster, beaten up for restoring edit............theres a 410 in private sales up for £325, should give you a guide Edited June 27, 2016 by impala59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastdevon Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 Been loving my hatsan pump gun with eley VIP 32g 6s, been given some express supreme game in 30g 6s, the express carts are only 65mm so will they be ok in me pump??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arm3000gt Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 Been loving my hatsan pump gun with eley VIP 32g 6s, been given some express supreme game in 30g 6s, the express carts are only 65mm so will they be ok in me pump??? Should be fine with any 65mm cartridge, had no problems with mine and 21g Comp X carts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastdevon Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Yep they fine!!! Had a small session initially in a field of barley bit as no birds were about I decided to take a walk down in to some woodland, ah so that where the pigeons were hiding!!! Strange I thought that pigeon are in woodland this time of year!! Home now preparing for a nice slow roast pigeons dinner!!! Mmmmmmm yum and all washed down with some nice sweet home brew cider!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala59 Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Pump putting food on the table, enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastdevon Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 Food on the table oh yes!!! Never made it before but made a really nice pigeon curry tonight was well nice!!! Am thinking on a black bird pie?? Anyone had this??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 Plenty of pigeons in the woods near me. As for blackbird pie, do you mean rooks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 I do hope so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.