What would a Ukip Britain look like?

[sitsinhedges]

Doesn't matter how many council houses you build if you're just going to fill them with Somalians and Pakistanis and Eastern Europeans.

[Gimlet]

Sorry but I have to disagree with that. Nothing to lose? Libour getting in would be the biggest disaster in this countries history from which we would never recover. I am genuinely fearful of it.

 

I agree. And I understand how you feel. But politically, economically and socially this country is under siege. The house, to borrow Mr Osborne's phrase, is on fire. By continuing with the leftward drift of Dave 'Ted Heath' Cameron you are hunkering down in a burning building from fear of losing the fight you will face if you step outside. Get out and fight and you have a very good and rapidly improving chance, stay where you are chewing your nails and fretting about a Labour win and you'll burn anyway.

 

And to those speculating on the kind of coalitions that might result from a UKIP surge, you are getting ahead of yourselves. Remember, UKIP's primary political purpose is to hold an unequivocal in-out referendum on EU membership and to oversee our complete withdrawal if that's the way the vote goes. You will not be voting for just another party, you will be voting for an entirely new political settlement.

The political shift caused by our escape from Europe will be seismic. We will be rebuilding our political infrastructure and a second general election is sure to follow quickly. No one under 50 in Britain has ever experienced voting for democratic self governance in a general election. The only UKIP policy that should matter to voters sceptical or antagonistic to a right wing party is that UKIP will unleash democracy. With Europe gone, nothing is set in stone. The game will be on again. Voter turnout is likely to rise sharply. It is hard to comprehend what release from Europe will mean for us politically. It will be like being suddenly cured of a disease and finding we can do things again that we'd forgotten were possible. I can see only opportunities.

[pimpkiller]

Gimlet - what a great post that was, I really think that the EU and labour are the worst thing to happen since hitler, they are destroying democracy and grinding countries into the ground and seriously believe that we are next on the chopping block.

[Vince Green]

Labour just make me shudder, my mouth goes dry and my hands get all clammy at just the thought of them getting back into office and the damage they would do.

[Vince Green]

Doesn't matter how many council houses you build if you're just going to fill them with Somalians and Pakistanis and Eastern Europeans.

 

And breed more chavs from the baby farms on benefits brigade.

[Gimlet]

Labour just make me shudder, my mouth goes dry and my hands get all clammy at just the thought of them getting back into office and the damage they would do.

 

Me too. But remember, the EU is socialist. Not left leaning, left of centre, slightly inclined or 'progressive', but unashamedly, opening, rabidly and permanently socialist. Much of the evil the previous government inflicted on this country was only possible with the elector-proof connivance of their friends in the EU. You can vote Labour out again. You will never get another chance like the one before you now to vote us out of Soviet Europe.

[pimpkiller]

The thing is labour were only just voted out and I bet alot of people would like them back in to protect their benefits. Has anyone watched question time recently? they always say the cons have had 3 years to sort out the mess and we are still in debt and the audience cheers, not pointing out the sheer amount of money thats been p-peed up the wall by labour and we probably never will because of them. It scares me to death.

[kdubya]

Sorry but I have to disagree with that. Nothing to lose? Libour getting in would be the biggest disaster in this countries history from which we would never recover. I am genuinely fearful of it.

 

we pee in the same pot its a frightening thought

 

KW

 

Doesn't matter how many council houses you build if you're just going to fill them with Somalians and Pakistanis and Eastern Europeans.

 

come along now diversity and inclusion, thats the way forward!

 

KW

[kev56]

Chart: How much does Britain pay into the EU and what does it get back?

 

By THIS IS MONEY REPORTERS

UPDATED: 14:42, 1 August 2012

• Comments (54)
  
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Does Britain really put much more into Europe than it gets out? How have our contributions risen and fallen? This chart reveals how the EU works for us.

 

Enlarge

 

Being a member of the European Union has been a one-way street for Britain. Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received in every single year of membership.

In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). It has received back in benefits just €163 billion (£143 billion). The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project.

Each nation’s contribution is based mainly on its Gross National Income, a measure of its economic output and earnings from overseas. The budget is spent on a range of projects to do with agriculture, fisheries, social projects and other Brussels subsidies.

Britain’s contribution figure would have been even higher had it not been for Margaret Thatcher’s tough stance in 1984, when she famously negotiated a rebate on the basis that the vast bulk of EU spending went on agricultural subsidies and Britain received a far lower proportion of this than other nations.

Under the terms of the rebate, Britain’s contributions were cut while other countries which benefited most from agricultural subsidies (mainly France) paid more.

Since 1985 Britain’s rebate has been worth a total of almost €90 billion (£79 billion at today’s exchange rate). Though as our graph shows, Britain’s contributions have still consistently far outstripped the benefits it receives.

The rebate would have been higher in recent years had not Tony Blair given up part of it under pressure from EU leaders. He agreed to cut it by about 20 per cent from 2007 until the next round of budget negotiations in 2013. So far, his concession has cost Britain about £4 billion.

 

 

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2052433/Chart-How-does-Britain-pay-EU-does-back.html#ixzz2NYgNLimr

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[IXI KARL IXI]

Didn't Cameron said the same thing about leaving the EU, it didnt happen tho, what makes UKIP any different. Lets face up to facts, no government is that different to the last, due to taken on the debts and problems of the past one. It's a two horse race red or blue. We (as a country) tried the middle ground lib dems and its not working, no back bone. Anyone can say things what people want to hear hence the government we have today. Do you really think a party with no experience could run a country? They haven't even be proved to run a local council propley yet. It's like giving a **** a shotgun, something will go off just when and where is unknown

[Gimlet]

The thing is labour were only just voted out and I bet alot of people would like them back in to protect their benefits. Has anyone watched question time recently? they always say the cons have had 3 years to sort out the mess and we are still in debt and the audience cheers, not pointing out the sheer amount of money thats been p-peed up the wall by labour and we probably never will because of them. It scares me to death.

 

Take no notice of Question Time. Its a hand picked audience of Labour and EU supporters, gays and ethnics chosen by the BBC to convey the impression of a left wing public concensus. The BBC likes to try and implant acceptance of its world view through constant repetition.

General elections are currently decided by a handful of party diehards. Three quarters of the electorate are not bothering to turn out and they're not turning out because they believe they have nothing to turn out for. The Tories are part of the problem.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Gimlet

[tigger]

 

 

Take no notice of Question Time. Its a hand picked audience of Labour and EU supporters, gays and ethnics chosen by the BBC to convey the impression of a left wing public concensus. The BBC likes to try and implant acceptance of its world view through constant repetition.

General elections are currently decided by a handful of party diehards. Three quarters of the electorate are not bothering to turn out and they're not turning out because they believe they have nothing to turn out for. The Tories are part of the problem.

 

Your right look at this story http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2292995/Question-Time-How-Labour-Party-planted-diehard-supporter-audience-attack-UKIP-panellist.html

[Vipa]

Didn't Cameron said the same thing about leaving the EU, it didnt happen tho, what makes UKIP any different. Lets face up to facts, no government is that different to the last, due to taken on the debts and problems of the past one. It's a two horse race red or blue. We (as a country) tried the middle ground lib dems and its not working, no back bone. Anyone can say things what people want to hear hence the government we have today. Do you really think a party with no experience could run a country? They haven't even be proved to run a local council propley yet. It's like giving a **** a shotgun, something will go off just when and where is unknown

 

Labour had neve been in power until their first stint in 1924... look at their meteoric rise to being one of the main parties... Just because UKIP have never done it before, don't assume they couldn't do it... As has been said already, it is unlikely they could inflict any serious damage if they got it wrong.

 

I really can't see them getting into power first this time round but I can see them becoming the opposition party very soon, probably at the expense of the tories!

[Gimlet]

Didn't Cameron said the same thing about leaving the EU, it didnt happen tho, what makes UKIP any different. Lets face up to facts, no government is that different to the last, due to taken on the debts and problems of the past one. It's a two horse race red or blue. We (as a country) tried the middle ground lib dems and its not working, no back bone. Anyone can say things what people want to hear hence the government we have today. Do you really think a party with no experience could run a country? They haven't even be proved to run a local council propley yet. It's like giving a **** a shotgun, something will go off just when and where is unknown

 

You're being simplistic. Cameron, like the Labour front bench and the Lib Dems, is a professional politician. He's doing it for the career it offers him not out of public duty. He has grown up with the EU. His only understanding of political office is as part of the EU. He is a European. It is in his DNA and he will never lead us out of it. Labour and the Lib Dems love Europe because it forces catastrophic socialist policies on Britain which they could never get away with if they put them to the electorate in an open democracy.

UKIP is entirely different. It is a party formed for the sole purpose of getting us out of the EU. It isn't going to win the general election. It propably won't field enough candidates. What it can do and is looking increasingly likely to do, is force a referendum. A proper one. As I said above, voter turn out is terrible in this country and the apathy and defeat in your post is a pretty accurate reflection of the disconnection people feel. The pro-European professional leeches are making hay out of your apathy. They are pretending that your dispair is a positive mandate. Don't let them get away with it.

The turn out at Eastleigh was significantly higher than usual, and it was from those awakened voters that much of UKIP's support came. If a similar level of support occured nationally the country would be ungovernable without an in/out referendum. Even Labour would have to hold one. If the country votes to leave it is likely another general election will be held. The referendum will split the Tories. The real Tories will surface and propably join forces with UKIP who are effectively one and the same. The rest, that is Cameron and his whig wets, can join the Lib dems and talk about wind turbines and gay weddings. That is what the political landscape will look like without the EU skewing the centre of gravity.

UKIP are entirely different to the other main parties. They are not career politicians seeking political office for its own sake.

A vote for UKIP and a proper referendum on Europe will put a bomb under British politics. It is the best possible way break the cycle of decline.

[al4x]

As has been said already, it is unlikely they could inflict any serious damage if they got it wrong.

 

you seriously reckon?

 

Pulling out of europe would either be a staggering success or complete failure, if it was the latter then odds are there would be no going back.

 

Obviously lots of brits like to emigrate to europe be interesting to see what their status was after we removed the ability to live where we like in the EU, Exports may remain the same or there may be trade barriers imposed France and a fair few others would love to block lots of our products to support their own industry. Obviously it might go swimmingly but its a complete red herring thinking it will save all our problems

[henry d]

Your right look at this story http://www.dailymail...-panellist.html

 

...and the daily mail is soooo impartial isn`t it? If a panellist cannot take flak then they don`t deserve to be there, simples.

[bruno22rf]

I always vote UKIP-Well said, Gimlet,this country needs more voices like yours

[AVB]

Labour had neve been in power until their first stint in 1924... look at their meteoric rise to being one of the main parties... Just because UKIP have never done it before, don't assume they couldn't do it... As has been said already, it is unlikely they could inflict any serious damage if they got it wrong.

 

I really can't see them getting into power first this time round but I can see them becoming the opposition party very soon, probably at the expense of the tories!

 

I agree that they won't get in however I disagree that they will become opposition. My fear is that Libour get in and they destroy the country so much that we end up operating under marshal law. Riots on the streets, people not getting paid, strikes everywhere. So no opposition.

[Grandalf]

Gimlet for benign dictator

[tigger]

 

 

...and the daily mail is soooo impartial isn`t it? If a panellist cannot take flak then they don`t deserve to be there, simples.

 

But she was clearly a plant, nothing to do with being impartial dirty tricks by labour/bbc

[Gimlet]

[/size]

 

you seriously reckon?

 

Pulling out of europe would either be a staggering success or complete failure, if it was the latter then odds are there would be no going back.

 

Obviously lots of brits like to emigrate to europe be interesting to see what their status was after we removed the ability to live where we like in the EU, Exports may remain the same or there may be trade barriers imposed France and a fair few others would love to block lots of our products to support their own industry. Obviously it might go swimmingly but its a complete red herring thinking it will save all our problems

 

Again, this is a counsel of dispair. Implicit in this argument is the false assumption that we cannot govern ourselves in out own best interest. We have become so habituated, so infantilised by our political impotence that we have become afraid to govern ourselves. This is precisely the effect the architects of the EU intended with their in exorable but almost imperceptibly slow erosion of the nation state. As I said earlier, we are living under colonial rule and no one under 50 knows anything different. Britain is suffering from collective Stockholm Syndrome, a delusional state where a person held captive comes to see their captor as their protector. It is a means of preserving sanity in the absence of practical help. It should be a warning not an article of faith.

All over the world there are functioning democracies which do not exist within Soviet collectives and yet they manage perfectly well. There are millions of people from outside the EU living and owning property in Europe. They do not have their assets frozen. They do not get deported. There are millions of companies outside the EU trading with countries within it. Grown up governance and normal traffic between nations is perfectly possible. Everyone else is doing it.

Europe has ruled the world for 1000 years. That era is over. Europe is in decline. It will not recover its former status. The rest of the world has caught up and moved ahead. And has it not occured to anyone that there are millions of people in other European countries who would also like to be rid of the EU. The idea that we will shiver to death in lonely north Atlantic exile without our EU comfort blanket is poppycock. Britain has allies; and Cameron is right about one thing: Europe does need us. it needs us to lead the way out of the toxic morass it has created for itself.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Gimlet

[al4x]

It's got nothing whatsoever to do with governing ourselves as we can definitely do that it has everything to do with free trade and rights of UK citizens to live through the eu. That's before you elect a party based on one political agenda. The fact is a vote for ukip is effectively a vote for labour, to some of us that's a horrendous thought

[Nial]

It's got nothing whatsoever to do with governing ourselves as we can definitely do that it has everything to do with free trade and rights of UK citizens to live through the eu

 

As before Mexico has the same free trade rights in the EU that we do, and you'll find plenty of Americans and other non-Europeans living throughout Europe.

 

. That's before you elect a party based on one political agenda. The fact is a vote for ukip is effectively a vote for labour, to some of us that's a horrendous thought

 

That is the big problem.

[Steppenwolf]

It seems the doom and gloom merchants are out in force, of course Britain would just collapse if they let the Eu. An important European Think tank has also investigated that if the EU collapsed the very sky might fall.

[al4x]

It seems the doom and gloom merchants are out in force, of course Britain would just collapse if they let the Eu. An important European Think tank has also investigated that if the EU collapsed the very sky might fall.

 

the leaving the EU is the minor bit, voting in labour by throwing votes away at the next election is the bit that is actually scary