maxie Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 No, far from it. I would like them all to be free but we have a finite pot- Hence Maggie's quote about "There is no such thing as society" How do we choose what to support and what not to. I suggest we pay when we can and those on benefits get free or reduced price access. No, far from it. I would like them all to be free but we have a finite pot- Hence Maggie's quote about "There is no such thing as society" How do we choose what to support and what not to. I suggest we pay when we can and those on benefits get free or reduced price access. So the working man pays for the museums through his tax then has to pay to get in while the man on benefits also takes money from the tax the working man pays and also gets into the museum free?? Sounds ideal No, far from it. I would like them all to be free but we have a finite pot- Hence Maggie's quote about "There is no such thing as society" How do we choose what to support and what not to. I suggest we pay when we can and those on benefits get free or reduced price access. It`s a difficult one I know.I just think that national museums should be free to everyone like libraries.It`s most probably because of my age growing up in the sixties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Your vitriol is misplaced and out of touch with the majority of the UK. It maybe out of touch with the vocal majority of PW, but let's be honest the average PW members tend to make Mrs T look like a liberal, and are not a accurate representation of the UK as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 So the working man pays for the museums through his tax then has to pay to get in while the man on benefits also takes money from the tax the working man pays and also gets into the museum free?? Sounds ideal Mind you in all honesty I'd rather see my tax money going that way than subsidising illegal immigrants who come here, immediately draw benefits, then send the cash back home to their extended families. Sorry, that is going a bit off topic. Not at all, it's a good point. It's hard to find a fair way to do things and there are people who genuinely cannot afford to go to museums etc. Personally I have no problem helping them. If it's a scrounger with the full sky package and fags and booze then yes, you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 It`s a difficult one I know.I just think that national museums should be free to everyone like libraries.It`s most probably because of my age growing up in the sixties. For uk taxpayers - yes. Visitors should pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 It maybe out of touch with the vocal majority of PW, but let's be honest the average PW members tend to make Mrs T look like a liberal, and are not a accurate representation of the UK as a whole. What, us PW members are not liberal enough.. surely not Utopia! You What?? Sorry to much coffee, could not resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 It maybe out of touch with the vocal majority of PW, but let's be honest the average PW members tend to make Mrs T look like a liberal, and are not a accurate representation of the UK as a whole. I think with 20/20 hindsight and a bit of maturity, more people today admire what she did for the UK than in the 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Your vitriol is misplaced and out of touch with the majority of the UK. He's an old fashioned died in the wool socialist union man. Say what you like, but what is clear is that socialism doesn't work and has failed. Measure Maggie against the alternatives both in terms of her choices and the opposition leaders and you realise she saved the Country, like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) I said theoretical. Questioned by the police about where their money comes from, If its from the public purse then stop the money, its treachery to celebrate the death of your leader, especially in a public place. Do you get what i mean now, cos you are wearing me out!........p.s. Why are you being so precious about your view on margarets death? Everyone else is contributing i already said i would not have celebrated her death as like yourself i think its a bit distasteful to do such things. anyway not looking to bring this down a level so lets leave it there as all i wanted to know was what you wanted these people questioned about and you told me, its been enlightening . Edited April 9, 2013 by overandunder2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 He's an old fashioned died in the wool socialist union man. Say what you like, but what is clear is that socialism doesn't work and has failed. Measure Maggie against the alternatives both in terms of her choices and the opposition leaders and you realise she saved the Country, like it or not. I think it's pretty clear that socialism and capitalism can't work on their own. Over the decades we have swung between left and right - at certain times you need capitalism, at others you need socialism. Thatcher was a product of her time, as was Blair, they both had their faults and both did some good but they both did what they felt they had to do. When we wanted a change, we changed them, that's democracy for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Bear Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 I think it's pretty clear that socialism and capitalism can't work on their own. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AULD YIN Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 After reading this i am amazed she was put out of No 10, personally I hated the woman and will not give a thought to her funeral,but i will give a thought to her family. johnnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapalomablanca Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Amen I laughed at that. I fully agree that socialism is a failed entity. But "capitalism cant work on its own". Look around you, it built civilisation as we know it, it works perfectly on its own, its just that greed and selfishness from all sides spoils it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Socialism will never work, we will never all be equal. Funnily enough, those that espouse it never want to live in a fully socialist country. Tony Benn is a classic example, gave the title up and joined the working man but didn't give his money up- easy to have a conscience with a wedge in the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Tony Benn is a classic example, gave the title up and joined the working man but didn't give his money up- easy to have a conscience with a wedge in the bank. 'Smoked salmon socialism' they call it round these parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapalomablanca Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Socialism will never work, we will never all be equal. Funnily enough, those that espouse it never want to live in a fully socialist country. Tony Benn is a classic example, gave the title up and joined the working man but didn't give his money up- easy to have a conscience with a wedge in the bank. And most that do espouse it happily take the public sector payment or dole coin, not caring that it can only come from capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Bear Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 I laughed at that. I fully agree that socialism is a failed entity. But "capitalism cant work on its own". Look around you, it built civilisation as we know it, it works perfectly on its own, its just that greed and selfishness from all sides spoils it. You think this civilisation is working? You need to get our from your ivory tower and take a walk around a couple of council estates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapalomablanca Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 You think this civilisation is working? You need to get our from your ivory tower and take a walk around a couple of council estates. ivory tower? no very much mr average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) It maybe out of touch with the vocal majority of PW, but let's be honest the average PW members tend to make Mrs T look like a liberal, and are not a accurate representation of the UK as a whole. pw is defiantly not a accurate representation of the UK as a whole thats for sure lets just say its one of a kind Edited April 10, 2013 by overandunder2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 The Thatcher Years and her legacy. 1. She supported the retention of capital punishment 2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry 3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws 4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher") 5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out) 6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration 7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership) 8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million 9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands 10. The poll tax 11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad 12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War 13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years 14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS 15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits 16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA 17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control 18. Section 28 19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist" 20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers 21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population 22. She opposed the reunification of Germany 23. She invented Quangos 24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5% 25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister 26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech 27. The Al Yamamah contract 28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet 29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike 30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15% 31. BSE 32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession 33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process 34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa 35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin 36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher 37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion 38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage 39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders. 40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education 41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions 42. 21.9% inflation 43. Toxteth 1981, Toxteth - 1981 Geoffrey Howe, Margaret Thatcher's Chancellor at the time, stated: "I fear that Merseyside is going to be much the hardest nut to crack", and: "I cannot help feeling that the option of managed decline is one which we should not forget altogether. We must not expend all our limited resources in trying to make water flow uphill." and now we have the source of the sack of spuds you have on your shoulders Kudubya what would you have done differently bearing in mind a financial situation similar to the one the country is in now but with no credit card to keep spending from. Can you grow magic beans up there on your allotment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) You think this civilisation is working? You need to get our from your ivory tower and take a walk around a couple of council estates. Doesn't the fact that amidst all the financial woes, we still have council estates, rather contradict your suggestion that this civilisation isn't working? People who have never done a days work in their lives may not be living as luxuriously as they once did but there is only so much that can be done with reducing public income. A lot of people lived way beyond their means by borrowing money they knew they could never afford to pay back so as usual, those of us who acted responsibly and didn't over extend ourselves are paying the price. Edited April 10, 2013 by old rooster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Very true Rooster. " You will not make the poor richer by make the rich poorer" is a phrase that springs to mind and it's very true. You have to want to get on. My parents did and so did I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Question: would Maggie be happy that between £5-10 million of tax payers money is being spent on her funeral? Love her or loathe i really think she would suggest the money would be better spent elsewhere! Hmmmm Aled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 pw is defiantly not a accurate representation of the UK as a whole thats for sure lets just say its one of a kind I agree, she will not be missed up ours, that's for certain.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallowbuck Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 The vociferous vocal few on here are certainly not representative of the UK! P.W is a shooting /hunting site at the end of the day and thats the way I like to leave it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 The vociferous vocal few on here are certainly not representative of the UK! P.W is a shooting /hunting site at the end of the day and thats the way I like to leave it! That is why, as with most forums, there are a range of different areas to post in and read from. Long may it be so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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