Frenchieboy Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) I've been out this evening to walk one of my permissions which i haven't had a chance to visit while the wife has been recouperating - She must be getting better as it was in fact Marlene who told me to get one of my guns out and get out from under her feet for a couple of hours, so who am I to disobey "The Boss"! On arrival the farmer came straight out to have a word with me. He told me that he had lost 2 lambs in 3 nights to foxes which he followed up with the exact words of "Cubs or no cubs I want any fox you see shot on sight, as far as I am concerned this is now all out war on foxes". I explained my stance on shooting foxes while there is a chance that the vixens are suckling cubs but I also said that i understood how he felt about it and as such I would respect his instructions - When all is said and done it is his land and it is he who calls the shots which I have no option but to respect, no matter if I do think that it is morrally wrong. He said that he had seen a fox heading off in the same direction several times, which was towards an area where there is a big land drain which usually holds cubs on a neighbouring farm. As luck would have it I have recently gained permission on the neighbouring farm so I took my .222 and headed off towards the boundary where I knew that I could get into a position where I would be able to get a bit of a view of the land drain in question. (I nailed a vixed at thi land drain a few months ago with the.243) As I approached slowly and quietly I was surprised to spot a bit of movement on the banking some 25 yards below the area where the land drain is and expected it to be nothing more than a rabbit. Stopping and crouching down I managed to crawl forwards on my belly to get a better look. What I saw quite surprised me! There on the banking just below what used to be a large rabbit hole was two cubs sunning themselves and scampering about totally ablivious to my presence about thirty yards from where I was lying. After a few minutes another cub came out making three in total. I lay there watching them for quite a while in the hope that the vixen would show her face but no joy on that. After nearly half an hour of waiting and watching the cubs going back and forth into the hole I slowly set the rifle carefully on the bipod as I had to respect the farmers instructions. I knew full well that if I took a couple of the cubs out the vixen would almost certainly move the rest of the litter as soon as it got near dusk and I might have a job to find her new earth, but that was a chance I was going to have to take. After a hell of a lot of patience and having to restrain a very itchy trigger finger while watching the three cubs through the scopes they finally lined up perfectly and I took the chance. (The time from me spotting the first cub up till now was well over 40 minutes but at least the ground was dry, the sun was shining and there was just a slight breeze which was blowing straight into my face) Gently squeezing the trigger the .222 barked and I saw two of the cubs spin over. One of them dropped on the spot and the other looking like it had gone backwards. I ejected the spent case and dropped it into my pocket and then went to pick up what I thought would be two carcasses. When I got to the earth one cub was lying outstretched just outside the mouth of the earth and another was lying with it's head in the mouth of the earth facing into the earth. I pulled them out and then noticed that there was yet another that had gone back a couple of feet into the hole but was also now as dead as a doornail. I had in fact nailed THREE cubs with just one shot. The cubs looked to be a good 6 to 7 weeks old and developing well. The bullet had passed straight through the chest of the first, through the chest/stomach of the second and hit the third in the neck just below it's head! The 3 cub carcasses were retrieved and taken back to the farm to be burried and to show him that I had done my job according to his instructions. The 3 tails were all boned out and now hang on the door of the tractor shed. I do not know if there are/were any other cubs in the earth but if there are the vixen will almost certainly have moved them tonight. I will have to have another good look tomorrow early morning or evening there to check it out, but I can safely say that the farmer is extremely happy with my evenings work knowing that there are three less cubs to grow and breed and threaten his livestock next year. I too am more than delighted to have pulled of a "shot of a lifetime". I doubt if I would ever get another perfect opportunity with three cubs lined up perfectly to be taken out with just one bullet! I do realise that this post will quite likely go against the grain for many members so I have to add that I really do not normally like the thought of shooting foxes while there are cubs about and still likely to be suckling. However I do not feel that I had any real choice in the matter as the instructions from the farmer were very clear and difinite! If anyone wants to fault me for what this then that is up to them, but I had no option but to protect my permission and do what i could to protect the farmers livestock, and I do not feel that I should have to defend myself over that but I'll put my tin hat on anyhow! Edited April 30, 2013 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 You do know that you are the one who made the post. If you didn't we wouldn't know about you killing any cubs and you wouldn't have had to defend anything that we don't know. So the point of the thread was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney 66 Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Good shot,if you don,t do it there will be someone else to step in your shoes who will,as long as its legal do what your asked on there land,glad your wifes getting better as well, barney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Good shot,if you don,t do it there will be someone else to step in your shoes who will,as long as its legal do what your asked on there land,glad your wifes getting better as well, barney Thank you Barney. This is exactly my line of thinking. As for Marlen, I am having to watch her carefully to make sure that she doesn't take on too much too soon, but she is getting stronger and stronger every day now thank heavens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 When you see the damage foxes do, I would have no second thoughts. Well done for hanging on for that unique shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 You do know that you are the one who made the post. If you didn't we wouldn't know about you killing any cubs and you wouldn't have had to defend anything that we don't know. So the point of the thread was... The point of the thread is to show that there are certain situations where cubs have to be shot, no matter if we agree with it or not and regardless of if we think that it is right or wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfiddler Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Point of the thread is "if the farmer has asked you to undertake a lawfull act that is effecting his livelyhood then that's what must be done." Come on anyone with a scrap of spence knows that foxes do a lot of damage, especially at this time of year. Times are bad for all, even more for farmers. This is exactly what the **** ole anti's want, someone posting a STUPID reply to what any DECENT FAC holder would do if asked by a farmer. Exactly the reason why people are NOT using this forum for its intended use. Well done Frenchieboy, RIP fox cubs, long live the lambs ! I look forward to meeting you on my Sunday platter ! Keep up the good work Mrs Marleane ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgguinness Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 You do know that you are the one who made the post. If you didn't we wouldn't know about you killing any cubs and you wouldn't have had to defend anything that we don't know. So the point of the thread was... The point is that the opportunity arose for him to take a good shot where he knew at least two cubs would die, as per instructions of the farmer (who's job is hard enough in present economic times, and given a poor winter). The shot was made with an excellent outcome. Perhaps you should just shoot paper targets?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) No problem with FB shooting cubs, but I don't agree with 'lining up animals' for multi kills from one shot. There is absolutely no guarantee a bullet will travel directly through one animal and into the second - bones have a nasty habit of making bullets do strange things. What if the second/third animal had been wounded and gone to ground?? Left to die in pain and slowly? Seems more luck than judgement in the success to me :-( Each to,their own, but for me one shot, one animal. Edited May 1, 2013 by Beretta06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telf Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 well done that man,i personally cannot see any difference shooting cubs, which grow up to be lamb killers,egg theives,bird killers etc,it is no different to shooting vixens which at the time maybe carrying young or have young in the den,likewise the same applies to rabbits.As the gamekeeper says on one of my perms you are there to do a job,not just for a jolly about. I fully respect your thoughts on the matter frenchieboy but you were asked to do something which is legal, by the farmer whose land it is and very well you did it. You will no doubt be getting out alot more now that the wifes getting sick of you ,i mean better so fair play and i look forward to seeing more posts off you atb dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Well done FB, you'll have to change yer avatar now though to three foxes. Tom Berringer has nothing on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the pigeon man Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Great shot !! Well done ! Can imagine this geting a few Pages long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 The only thing I'd have done differently was sat it out for the vixen but if you haven't got the gear with you to sit after dark that's not an option, as for cubs deflecting bullets it's hard to imagine, round here any fox gets shot whenever but I still haven't shot a lactating one this year or found cubs on our ground. Shot more foxes than ever though at this time of year we seem over run with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camokid Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 bet you wont be pulling that shot of ever again that is the jammy shot of the year well done pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Killing cubs doesnt bother me infact i regularly shoot them if i see em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted May 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) The only thing I'd have done differently was sat it out for the vixen but if you haven't got the gear with you to sit after dark that's not an option, as for cubs deflecting bullets it's hard to imagine, round here any fox gets shot whenever but I still haven't shot a lactating one this year or found cubs on our ground. Shot more foxes than ever though at this time of year we seem over run with them If I had had the equipment with me than I agree that I would have handled the situation differently but I only went there equiped for a short evening walk about to maybe shoot a few rabbits and to see how things were looking after having to give the land a bit of a lay off/rest for a month! Like you al4x I have never yet shot a lactating vixen - That is one thing that I would really not want to do intentionally (Except in certain exceptional circumstances). With rgards to the reply by Beretta06 about the bullet being deflected- That was always a possibility, all be it a very slim one. As I said in the OP I was only about 30 yards for the earth and I have a pretty good idea of the power delivered by a .222 and the "strength" of the bones on a fox cub, so it was a chance I was willing to take in order to utilise the opportunity to maximum effect knowing full well that I could have left one wounded. I do not relish the thought of leaving any animal to suffer needlessly but there are times when the chance of this happening is unaviodable, just at there is always a chance that any shot could (Through shooter error) be pulled slightly resulting in a wounded animal getting to ground and dying in pain. I very much doubt that there is a shooter on here that has not wounded an animal without killing it outright at some time or other in their life. This is a part of vermin control that we all have to face up to! Edit: Just to add that if I had been using my .22LR (Which I was planning on taking but changed my mind at the last minute opting to take the "triple" I would not have considered taking this shot, not only on "legal graounds" (My .22LR is only conditioned for fox when caught in cage traps) but I know only too well that it would almost certainly have left at least one wounded fox cub to suffer! Edited May 1, 2013 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 At this time of year I will always TRY and shoot the cubs first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 why Dekers? then the vixen just moves the ones you haven't got. If you get the vixen first then the cubs keep coming up above ground and you can clear the lot in one go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted May 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) At this time of year I will always TRY and shoot the cubs first! I suspect that I know the answer to that question al4x - If Dekers is thinking along the same lines as me: By trying to take the cubs first any that you don't get will have a chance of surviving with the vixen without any major "upsets" (Maybe not the best word to use here)! She will almost certainly move them to another earth which you will have to take time and effort to find, but that is down to knowing your land and just another part of the job! However, if you were to take the vixen out first unless you could be sure that you could get all of the cubs (Either by shooting or with the use of a good terrier) you could leave a few remaining cubs to starve to death below ground - Even though this is "Vermin Control" (And we all know that there is no room for sentiment in vermin control) it is not a nice death for any young animal to have to suffer and one that I personally would want to try to avoid! Edited May 1, 2013 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 there is that but really if you shoot any foxes above ground at the moment you run the same risk, personally I know what they do to local wildlife to rear a litter and we like our wild english partridges and any broods we can get to survive pheasant wise is great so they get hammered. I took great satisfaction the other night watching one hunting partridges and giving it a vmax before it got close then seeing another try for the same partridges and giving that some as well We do seem to be infested with them at the moment despite them being shot hard all year this week 3 barren vixens and 2 dogs on my bit and 2 more on walked up vermin drives in the woods surrounding us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 It's a hard call and by the sound of it you posted about it because you wanted to talk about it which is no bad thing. I can see why you tried to take all three and I would probably have done the same. You have nothing to reproach yourself for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregthegreat Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 At this time of year I will always TRY and shoot the cubs first! The only problem with that is the vixen has no gauge of how much to kill so will kill indiscriminately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) I explained my stance on shooting foxes while there is a chance that the vixens are suckling cubs but I also said that i understood how he felt about it and as such I would respect his instructions - When all is said and done it is his land and it is he who calls the shots which I have no option but to respect, no matter if I do think that it is morrally wrong... I really do not normally like the thought of shooting foxes while there are cubs about and still likely to be suckling. However I do not feel that I had any real choice in the matter as the instructions from the farmer were very clear and difinite! If anyone wants to fault me for what this then that is up to them, but I had no option but to protect my permission and do what i could to protect the farmers livestock, and I do not feel that I should have to defend myself over that but I'll put my tin hat on anyhow! Without going into the details and arguments on both sides of this situation, I have to say, "I have a stance, but I have no option but to do what I'm told no matter if I do think that it is morally wrong" is a pretty chilling thing to read. Edited May 1, 2013 by Granett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) The only problem with that is the vixen has no gauge of how much to kill so will kill indiscriminately. Sometimes (often) on this site subtlety is completely lost! Edited May 1, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Without going into the details and arguments on both sides of this situation, I have to say, "I have a stance, but I have no option but to do what I'm told no matter if I do think that it is morally wrong" is a pretty chilling thing to read. Why? How many folks on hear would give up there permission over there personal stand point? Not many in truth I be, I have no issues with shooting cubs or anything else I have the legal right to do. I respect frenchies opinions and glad he refrained from photographs of what was a once in a life time shot, I would of done the same. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.