scimitar Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) What leads you to believe it is inadequate at the moment? Never said it was inadequate, just said it needs looking at, theres been a lot said about response times and I just feel that after this incident it needs looking at to see if it's still sufficient for modern times. Just the same as if there was a major accident and questions were asked about response times I'd expect it to be discussed at the highest level. Edited May 25, 2013 by scimitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey10765666 Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Hell no there's to many out there now that let the power of the uniform go to their heads as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) Yes they should be armed just because it wouldn't have helped in some incidents doesn't mean it could help in future incidents. In the Cumbria shootings unarmed police were on the scene quickly but had to wait for armed response. One of the two police women murdered in England had time to try and use a tazer if she had being armed she might of had a chance to defend herself. As for all the difficulties of arming the police they have being armed here for as long as I can remember with no real problems are they that different in the rest of the UK that they couldn't do the same. As for training it a part of the training in the PSNI but not extensive as some seam to think.Operational Development TrainingEleven weeks pre-Tutorship training based at various Northern Ireland Police College sites, consisting of:•2 weeks firearms training*•3 weeks driver training (dependent on driving categories held)•1 week tactical patrolling training*•3 days First Aid training*•3 days search training*•1 day fire safety and HEP B injections•3 days public order awareness•2 days communications training•2 days ICIS training•3 days NICHE training•1 week annual leave (compulsory due to number of days worked) Firearms training is a small part of their overall training.PS I would go further and say I think they should be armed of duty as well so they could respond to incidents the might come across of duty. I think its a bit of a joke they are happy to use armed response when they are on duty but don't trust them to carry firearms when of duty. Edited May 25, 2013 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 The difference is we aren't all in Northern Ireland. Arming the police here wouldn't be commensurate with the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 I much prefer 'policing by consent' rather than by force. To change this basic facet of British life would mean that the 'terrorists' have won. Like N.Ireland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 The difference is we aren't all in Northern Ireland. Arming the police here wouldn't be commensurate with the risk. Why take the risk,and why wait until it's too late? I'm sure the Home Secretarys statement that life for murdering a Police officer will in future mean life,is of immense reassurance for many serving officers! But anyhow;it's all irrelevant,because as I've already stated;when you or I need one(armed or otherwise)the chances of there being one around to intervene is very remote.As was proved the other day when two armed pieces of dirt attacked and killed an unarmed man in the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probuck Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 More to the point...bring in the death sentence.!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) The difference is we aren't all in Northern Ireland. Arming the police here wouldn't be commensurate with the risk. The risk in the UK is no higher or lower than a lot of countries that arm the police, most if not all of the terrorist attacks have taken place in England and not N Ireland. PS What is this policing by consent in the UK I don't get it are other countries that have armed police not policed by consent. Yep we should be proud of the fact that we dont have one and for the time being dont really need one, as you say police are just ordinary people like you and me and are policing by consent You don't have armed police more for political reasons than not needing one. UK governments try to push this notion that the UK is so peaceful that police don't need to be armed. Iv seen the video of the police shooting at woolwich and the police didn't even have time to get out of the car before shooting. They did very well. True but what if the police he was running at were not armed. ? Edited May 25, 2013 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapalomablanca Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 i think we are all going to need to 'conceal carry' before long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scimitar Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 i think we are all going to need to 'conceal carry' before long. I wouldn't trust most people to carry and then take out a target if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapalomablanca Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 I wouldn't trust most people to carry and then take out a target if needed. i would, i think the stipulation of 'conceal carry' should be, extensive checks including interviewing associates of the applicant, then a training course on how to use a handgun. This of course would only follow once the medical and criminal background checks have been carried out. If you asked me 30 years ago i would have laughed at handguns for everyone, but by christ things have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Yes they should be armed just because it wouldn't have helped in some incidents doesn't mean it could help in future incidents. In the Cumbria shootings unarmed police were on the scene quickly but had to wait for armed response. One of the two police women murdered in England had time to try and use a tazer if she had being armed she might of had a chance to defend herself. As for all the difficulties of arming the police they have being armed here for as long as I can remember with no real problems are they that different in the rest of the UK that they couldn't do the same. As for training it a part of the training in the PSNI but not extensive as some seam to think. Operational Development Training Eleven weeks pre-Tutorship training based at various Northern Ireland Police College sites, consisting of: •2 weeks firearms training* •3 weeks driver training (dependent on driving categories held) •1 week tactical patrolling training* •3 days First Aid training* •3 days search training* •1 day fire safety and HEP B injections •3 days public order awareness •2 days communications training •2 days ICIS training •3 days NICHE training •1 week annual leave (compulsory due to number of days worked) Firearms training is a small part of their overall training. PS I would go further and say I think they should be armed of duty as well so they could respond to incidents the might come across of duty. I think its a bit of a joke they are happy to use armed response when they are on duty but don't trust them to carry firearms when of duty. I am with you on that but there is little point in trying to make a sensible argument for arming our police as most of the people on here live in the past what was ok fifty years ago must be alright today just look what we are up against all that they want to do is bury there heads in the sand and think of England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) i would, i think the stipulation of 'conceal carry' should be, extensive checks including interviewing associates of the applicant, then a training course on how to use a handgun. This of course would only follow once the medical and criminal background checks have been carried out. If you asked me 30 years ago i would have laughed at handguns for everyone, but by christ things have changed No point in discussing it really. UK governments don't even trust civilians with handguns for target shooting the chances of them allowing concealed its, not going to happen. Edited May 25, 2013 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scimitar Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Big difference between teaching someone to use a handgun and teaching someone to engage possible multiple targets with friendlies in the way, and how long will all this training take and at what financial cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 The risk in the UK is no higher or lower than a lot of countries that arm the police, most if not all of the terrorist attacks have taken place in England and not N Ireland. Which terrorist attacks are you talking about? If your referring to IRA/PIRA then you need to do a little research, or did I miss the fact that the army were needed over there for nothing all those years? If we're talking about the AQ attacks over here, please let me know which could have been stopped by armed police before they happened. A soldier is killed in cold blood and suddenly we want to arm the police, get the army in and set up militias? God help us if that's the general opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Marty Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Ours are all armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapalomablanca Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 No point in discussing it really. UK governments don't even trust civilians with handguns for target shooting the chances of them allowing concealed its, not going to happen. under normal circumstances i would agree, but 25000 murders since 1969 and untold maiming and damage, means that sometimes things have to happen regardless. Look around you, things couldnt be further from normal, all it takes is a 'movement'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 i would, i think the stipulation of 'conceal carry' should be, extensive checks including interviewing associates of the applicant, then a training course on how to use a handgun. This of course would only follow once the medical and criminal background checks have been carried out. If you asked me 30 years ago i would have laughed at handguns for everyone, but by christ things have changed. have you ever actually been in the situation where you have had to kill someone or would you just like to be able to if the opportunity arose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) police with a firearm,ha ha they leave guns in the toilets, and on top of cars, Edited May 25, 2013 by mossy835 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Arming people for concealed carry is such a stupid idea. All these people with comments that they would be happy to do a course and be part of a civilian militia,for fs grow up if you want to play with pistols join the TA. The poor soldier who died would not have been saved by someone with a pistol,he was run down with a car and was probably unconscious at that point,if you had been 200yds away they still would have killed him before you got there. And as mentioned,talking about what you would do if you had been there with a pistol is a load of tosh,it is very different when it's for real and someone is attempting to take your head off and you have to shoot them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Marty Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Not a massive fan of the Police in the past( personal reasons ) but I can only speak for over here and in my opinion the police must be armed in this day and age. Again can only speak for here but there has been very few incidents involving police and there weapons. I think you have to give them the same chance as the criminals there after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 I have spoken to a few police officers regarding going to FAC air rifle ( them not me) and I always get the same reply that they are less likley to get granted FAC than a civilian due to the high stress levels they are subjected to due to their employment , if the police don't even trust the police with a real gun I would suggest anybody who wants them all armed should rethink it , it wasn't that long ago they publicly assassinated an unarmed man on a tube train for the crime of not having the correct visa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) I have spoken to a few police officers regarding going to FAC air rifle ( them not me) and I always get the same reply that they are less likley to get granted FAC than a civilian due to the high stress levels they are subjected to due to their employment , if the police don't even trust the police with a real gun I would suggest anybody who wants them all armed should rethink it , it wasn't that long ago they publicly assassinated an unarmed man on a tube train for the crime of not having the correct visa *** they didn't throw a wobbly, they acted clinically on incorrect information. OK, it doesn't make it right and it was VERY unfortunate to say the least. Edited May 25, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapalomablanca Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 have you ever actually been in the situation where you have had to kill someone or would you just like to be able to if the opportunity arose? neither, just want any potential attacker to have it in their head that i could well be able to stop them. Stupid question, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Star Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 I have spoken to a few police officers regarding going to FAC air rifle ( them not me) and I always get the same reply that they are less likley to get granted FAC than a civilian due to the high stress levels they are subjected to due to their employment , if the police don't even trust the police with a real gun I would suggest anybody who wants them all armed should rethink it , it wasn't that long ago they publicly assassinated an unarmed man on a tube train for the crime of not having the correct visa And they were the experts !!!! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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