wannabe_keeper Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Following on from my post in the Gamekeeping section (blindness in pheasants) I have now had two prescriptions of medication for my pheasants from the vets since Saturday. They have mycoplasmosis which is making them blind and the vets prescribed Aivlosin which after 2 lots and a consultation etc... Cost me just shy of £100. I put the first lot in on Saturday for 3 days as instructed and went and bought the second lot today. On closer inspection of the pack I notice that both doses sold to me went out of date in October 2012! Should I complain as I'm not very happy with having a professional vetinary practice prescribing and issuing out of date medication even if it 'might still work' as it is technically illegal for them to do so. How should I proceed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) if the product is not affected in anyway other than an expiry I would bring it to their attention and ask for a refund or replacement product free of charge. I think money back is the least they could do... Edited July 17, 2013 by BRNDL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acsimmo Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I would complain and get refund, and if birds don't recover ask for compensation. All medication should be checked before it leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 As above and ask for replacement medication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I would definitely inform them about it if the manufactures put a use by date they must have a reason for doing so lots of things would not bother me but medication is not cheep and so you want what you have paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Even contact manufacturer to ask if it is ok to use almost 8 month old medication. And any detrimental effects it may have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Are these the ex-layers you bought? If so,had they been receiving medication of any sort prior to you buying them? Did they have any ailments prior to you receiving them? I only ask because we are into our third season of ex-layers now and have never medicated any of them,and have never needed to. Is your supplier suspect, or are your birds kept in conditions which you are unaware of which are likely to cause ailments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Yes the ex layers and I've been informed they were wormed and tested with Aivlosin before coming to me but due to one reason or another contracted this disease shortly after, hence me seeking the medication which I did not think would be prescribed and administered when being this far out of date. It might well work but its just the principle of paying good money for something that you expect to be in date for peace of mind when using it. Whether the birds had the disease before they came to or got it while under my management is something I will never know. The game farmer runs a reputable game farm and has no other reported issues. It's just one of those things. But you expect better from a vets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 As you say in your post in the gamekeeping section that you have spoken to your vet and the practice manager is getting back to you in the morning, I think you should wait and see what they have to say and what action they recommend. At this stage, bearing in mind that it was some days after finding sick birds before you initially contacted your vet, is the health of the birds. They have had the first dose, be it out of date product, and are due the second dose. Depending on their advice you may be able to administer the out of date stuff rather than having to wait for new supplies. If the old stuff works I would not think it unreasonable to ask for something off the bill to reflect this, bearing in mind that you seem to think the birds are improving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Very few meds actually go out of date and become inactive-I seem to recall that the US army make a point of purchasing many of its medical supplies from out of date suppliers to save money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Should not have sold you you it full stop, take it back and get the dated stuff, its your right mate: No If`s.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Should not have sold you you it full stop, take it back and get the dated stuff, its your right mate: No If`s.. And I suspect that is exactly what his vet will say when they phone him back, as prommised, in the morning. Edited July 17, 2013 by CharlieT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 A surprising amount of drugs have a limited shelf life, I can see no reason why the packaging would be labelled with a use by date, if it was not relevant. Tell the Vet and let him offer a refund, or replacement, you should get some recompense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 The US Army tested over 100 popular drugs and reported that over 90% were still perfect 15 years beyond their sell by date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 A surprising amount of drugs have a limited shelf life, I can see no reason why the packaging would be labelled with a use by date, if it was not relevant. Tell the Vet and let him offer a refund, or replacement, you should get some recompense. Legislation is why, very few have an active ingredient that goes off. opened packs is another matter, if you look even the lines of lemsip have expiry dates on and it's never going to go off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted July 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) Its irrelevant whether the medication works or not the principle is I should not have been given medication which is 9 or 10 months past its expiry date. You wouldn't stand for it if it was the NHS giving you medication out of date so why is it any different with animals which have cost me a lot of money and with which I have spent a lot of time and effort. I think I should receive a full refund, a decent batch of meds and a good will gesture payment to cover any birds which may have caught the infection since the weekend when the out of date meds went in as how can the vets say it has been working since the weekend if it is technically out of the manufacturers use by date. It just wouldn't stand up. I'm sure the practice will favour this over me issuing a complaint with the Royal College of Vetinary Surgeons and contacting the local media to make them aware of the issue. Edited July 18, 2013 by wannabe_keeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 The US Army tested over 100 popular drugs and reported that over 90% were still perfect 15 years beyond their sell by date. Citation? I thought that the US DoD & FDA had tested around 120 drugs and found that around 88% were still OK for between 1 and 5 years after expiry. And that all the drugs tested were stored in ideal conditions, in original packs. Still pretty good, but some drugs do expire very quickly, especially if not stored correctly. It's unlikely that they would do you any harm if consumed, but more likely that they could have reduced efficacy. Drug companies don't want to wait 10, 20 years with a drug on a shelf to test what it's like after that time. So they carry out tests to emulate the ageing process as best they can - exposure to oxygen, moisture, heat etc. Then they create an expiry date based on those results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Its irrelevant whether the medication works or not the principle is I should not have been given medication which is 9 or 10 months past its expiry date. You wouldn't stand for it if it was the NHS giving you medication out of date so why is it any different with animals which have cost me a lot of money and with which I have spent a lot of time and effort. I think I should receive a full refund, a decent batch of meds and a good will gesture payment to cover any birds which may have caught the infection since the weekend when the out of date meds went in as how can the vets say it has been working since the weekend if it is technically out of the manufacturers use by date. It just wouldn't stand up. I'm sure the practice will favour this over me issuing a complaint with the Royal College of Vetinary Surgeons and contacting the local media to make them aware of the issue. just look at it sensibly someone has cocked up so the minimum you should expect is a replacement product, whether they accept your compensation route is another matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLuke Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Its irrelevant whether the medication works or not the principle is I should not have been given medication which is 9 or 10 months past its expiry date. You wouldn't stand for it if it was the NHS giving you medication out of date so why is it any different with animals which have cost me a lot of money and with which I have spent a lot of time and effort. I think I should receive a full refund, a decent batch of meds and a good will gesture payment to cover any birds which may have caught the infection since the weekend when the out of date meds went in as how can the vets say it has been working since the weekend if it is technically out of the manufacturers use by date. It just wouldn't stand up. I'm sure the practice will favour this over me issuing a complaint with the Royal College of Vetinary Surgeons and contacting the local media to make them aware of the issue. This is all fine assuming you never wish to use that vet again As with any professional, if they have done a good job up until now and you want to use ten again then losing your **** with them will ensure you can never use them again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) Flippin Mycoplasma, it's a nightmare. I use Tylan or there is a new cheaper alternative you can buy now without prescription called Tylanfur http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tylanfur-100g-Respiratory-Infections-Birds-Pigeons-/271135083633 ^^this stuff or if the link gets removed just google it. Mycoplasma is usually caught from wild birds and affected birds unless they recover quickly (within 48 hours or so) can become carriers so it's not necessarily down to bad management, more that they're exposed to affected wild birds. As for saying the bird might go blind, I've no experience of this as all mine have recovered quickly and the bubbles disappeared from their eyes fast. What does hang around for a wee bit longer seems to be the respiratory infection. As for the Vets, I'm not sure, depends on your relationshp with them, hope you get sorted Edited July 18, 2013 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Forgot to say, affected birds 'shed' the disease by sneezing etc etc so the ground itself may be harbouring the bacteria too :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted July 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 All sorted the vets have offered me a full refund of both sachets and the owner of the vets is personally driving an hour away as I type this to pick me up a 40g sachet which I will collect tonight free of charge. It's funny how people start moving when you ask for the address to send a formal written letter of complaint and request for some form of compensate. I think if they honour the above I will not pursue any complaint. As for using them again I can't see why the relationship will be ruined. They made the mistake, and corrected it. I'm the victim or more so my birds are and I will happily use them again and I see no reason why they will not accept me there should I need them in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 All sorted the vets have offered me a full refund of both sachets and the owner of the vets is personally driving an hour away as I type this to pick me up a 40g sachet which I will collect tonight free of charge. It's funny how people start moving when you ask for the address to send a formal written letter of complaint and request for some form of compensate. I think if they honour the above I will not pursue any complaint. As for using them again I can't see why the relationship will be ruined. They made the mistake, and corrected it. I'm the victim or more so my birds are and I will happily use them again and I see no reason why they will not accept me there should I need them in the future. And why do think they would not have done this without your threats. I have always found specialist gamebird vets to be honest, professional and most helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) just for a laugh was it ? Edited July 18, 2013 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted July 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 No but close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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