Am I giving too little lead ?

[FalconFN]

I had a couple of hours out today and was doing well but all the birds I hit were heading roughly towards me and aiming to land in the trees behind. They were all dead in the air, which is great, but the crossing birds, fast or slow would just jink away after the shot and I seemed to miss really 'easy' shots.

 

I am trying to work out why I could hit birds coming towards me but not those crossing and the only thing I can think of is I'm giving them too little lead, does that sound right? Or could it be a gun fit problem where I'm altering my head position when the gun is rising?

 

There wasn't very much about and I only bagged 7 but I only used 16 carts so I'm still pleased as my hit ratio is improving every time.

[-Mongrel-]

Probably is a lead issue to be honest. Coming toward you requires very little lead, the more they cross the more lead they need. It's difficult to advise as everyones idea of 4 feet seems to differ and it changes with range BUT...I'd reckon about 4 feet on a crossing bird at medium pace about 25 metres out. I try and 'gauge' what I think is 4 feet of course, it could be more but I suppose that is 5 or so bird lengths.

[aga man]

try firing your gun at a pattern plate/board or large bag, it could be firing slightly high causing you to shoot over the top of the crossers.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I had a couple of hours out today and was doing well but all the birds I hit were heading roughly towards me and aiming to land in the trees behind. They were all dead in the air, which is great, but the crossing birds, fast or slow would just jink away after the shot and I seemed to miss really 'easy' shots.

 

I am trying to work out why I could hit birds coming towards me but not those crossing and the only thing I can think of is I'm giving them too little lead, does that sound right? Or could it be a gun fit problem where I'm altering my head position when the gun is rising?

 

There wasn't very much about and I only bagged 7 but I only used 16 carts so I'm still pleased as my hit ratio is improving every time.

 

 

With the recent cooler weather are you wearing another layer of clothing, it may well make a difference to your gun mount!

[utectok]

Much more likely to be lifting ur head and shooting over the top? Helps with birds coming towards you but you'll never hit a crosser ? pattern plate..., Clays?

[FalconFN]

Probably is a lead issue to be honest. Coming toward you requires very little lead, the more they cross the more lead they need. It's difficult to advise as everyones idea of 4 feet seems to differ and it changes with range BUT...I'd reckon about 4 feet on a crossing bird at medium pace about 25 metres out. I try and 'gauge' what I think is 4 feet of course, it could be more but I suppose that is 5 or so bird lengths.

I think it is lead - although I did hit 1 crossing bird which was on the way past at a fair speed and not slowing down, but it wasn't a clean kill and had to send the dog straight away.

try firing your gun at a pattern plate/board or large bag, it could be firing slightly high causing you to shoot over the top of the crossers.

Thanks, I'll try that.

 

 

With the recent cooler weather are you wearing another layer of clothing, it may well make a difference to your gun mount!

I was sweating cobs today, it was sunny and 23 degrees!

Edited September 23, 2013 by FalconFN

[motty]

 

 

With the recent cooler weather are you wearing another layer of clothing, it may well make a difference to your gun mount!

I'd say it wouldn't make that much difference. I could put on 2 extra jackets and shoot the same.

Probably is a lead issue to be honest. Coming toward you requires very little lead, the more they cross the more lead they need. It's difficult to advise as everyones idea of 4 feet seems to differ and it changes with range BUT...I'd reckon about 4 feet on a crossing bird at medium pace about 25 metres out. I try and 'gauge' what I think is 4 feet of course, it could be more but I suppose that is 5 or so bird lengths.

Four feet at that range? Not sure.

[motty]

I had a couple of hours out today and was doing well but all the birds I hit were heading roughly towards me and aiming to land in the trees behind. They were all dead in the air, which is great, but the crossing birds, fast or slow would just jink away after the shot and I seemed to miss really 'easy' shots.

 

I am trying to work out why I could hit birds coming towards me but not those crossing and the only thing I can think of is I'm giving them too little lead, does that sound right? Or could it be a gun fit problem where I'm altering my head position when the gun is rising?

 

There wasn't very much about and I only bagged 7 but I only used 16 carts so I'm still pleased as my hit ratio is improving every time.

Practise a lot on crossing clays. If you can find someone with a clay trap who'll throw a few for you, that'll help no end. Start at 20 yards on some crossers. Once you're hitting every one, move back 10 yards and do the same. Master this and i'm sure you'll hit the pigeons.

[The Essex Hunter]

All the time you spend trying to work out lead and making calculations is time wasted...

Less choke, pick the bird up, swing through and kill it....

 

 

TEH

[Milkfloat]

Pop down your local clay ground and try and shoot a round or three of skeet. You will have a nice mix of going away, incoming but crucially lots of crossers and quartering birds from different angles.

[mudpatten]

It may seem expensive at first but, for some one at your stage in their shooting career, you would benefit enormously from a visit or two to a good shooting school where they can examine you for gun fit and properly construct your shooting style from the ground up.

 

Every thing else is just guesswork.

[-Mongrel-]

Four feet at that range? Not sure.

 

Yeah, you see, this is where your four feet and mine is probably different. It may well not be four feet but is just my illusion of what four feet is? Dunno, how long is the average bird? What is four bird lengths?

[FalconFN]

It may seem expensive at first but, for some one at your stage in their shooting career, you would benefit enormously from a visit or two to a good shooting school where they can examine you for gun fit and properly construct your shooting style from the ground up.

 

Every thing else is just guesswork.

Yes, I should do but upwards of £70 per lesson is putting me off a little.

[12boreblue]

First is probably a miss behind, remember bum, belly, beak, bang! Second is stopping the gun to look for the 'kill' Third is lifting your head and missing above. Here is trick I use, make a 'C'shape with your thumb and first finger.Put your hand at arms length and use that as your 'starting' lead. For a 25-30 yd crosser use that amount of lead on the bird, if you miss come back a little each time until the lead in your fingers becomes a 'U' if you haven't hit a bird, then start again and lengthen the lead until you hit one. I find this procedure helps you concentrate on the bird, and teaches you to visualise lead before you shoot. If none of this works you can try making an 'N' and a 'T'!!! ;-)

[subsonicnat]

As one post has mentioned, put a bird on the ground at 25 yds, Another at 35, and another at 40 yards:

Thats your yard stick, for roughly where they are when you shoot the crossers..

at 25 yds hit the beak, at 30yds 1/2 a bird length, full bird at 35, ans so on...

if you are still missing, !!!.. you are probably stopping your swing, SO Concentrate on the space in front of the bird (ALWAYS).

Do NOT be aware of the Barrel at all, give it all you have got to look at the space in FRONT, forget the Gun, and shoot.. BUM: BELLY: BEAK: (SPACE) As they say.

you must TAKE THE LINE, calm down there is a second or so to line up.. BUT<<<<<::: Try your gun on a pattern plate, its worth a thousand shots in the air believe me..

[Scully]

If you 'track' the bird before firing then you'll miss.Those birds are really travelling,so literally WHIP those muzzles through,and the moment the bird disappears FIRE! The momentum generated by this will ensure your swing continues post shot.

Some people try 'missing' in front,and although it can work very well it takes more practise than the first method,which is easy peasy lemon squeezie!

[Gee.]

Pop down your local clay ground and try and shoot a round or three of skeet. You will have a nice mix of going away, incoming but crucially lots of crossers and quartering birds from different angles.

 

 

Ditto, all skeet targets should have you sorted for the pigeons.

[FalconFN]

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply, all excellent advice and hopefully I can put it into practice.

[yickdaz]

just shoot sporting clays you get all the angles and diverse targets you will get shooting pigeons

[Tod]

Mount the gun 10 times with your eyes shut , when mounted open your eyes, if your looking straight down the rib you should be fine for gun fit and mount, shooting clays won't necessarily make a better pigeon shot but will improve your gun mounting, I know some good clay shots that struggle with pigeons, the main thing to remember is to make sure your on the bird, swing through and fire keeping the swing going the same speed as the bird, everyone will have there own advise and technique, try forgetting about lead and concentrate on picking the bird up as early as possible, keep the swing to the speed of the bird, pull through and fire keeping the swing going.

[motty]

If you 'track' the bird before firing then you'll miss.Those birds are really travelling,so literally WHIP those muzzles through,and the moment the bird disappears FIRE! The momentum generated by this will ensure your swing continues post shot.

Some people try 'missing' in front,and although it can work very well it takes more practise than the first method,which is easy peasy lemon squeezie!

Why? I very often follow a bird with my barrels before i bring about it's demise.

[Scully]

Why? I very often follow a bird with my barrels before i bring about it's demise.

And so does everyone else,but at some point you must be sweeping those barrels through your target to get in front,(or 'pushing' through on slower birds) otherwise you would miss.You may be a very experienced shot,but possibly the OP isn't,which is why he has posted on here.

The OP asked if he was giving too little lead,and I suspect he is,all I am suggesting is a tried , tested and proved method for getting in front of those fast crossers and staying there while he takes the shot.The momentum of the sweep or swing ensures the barrels keep moving,as on a long slow crosser (even these are going faster than they appear,as you will no doubt know)it is very easy to stop swinging at the point of firing.

Matching the speed of the bird with your barrels will result in a miss,getting in front is the important bit.

[NickB65]

I have had similar issues and for me it was concentrating on the barrel and the placement of the ornage bead at the end instead of concentrating on the bird I am going to kill. Then as you swing with the bird move the gun up the bird saying out loud BUM BELLY BEAK BANG and as long as the swing is smooth then you will hit them every time. Further birds out it is BUM BELLY BEAK LEAD BANG..... To work out dustance is easy if you have the decoys in a U shape. For me the furthest out decoy is 40 yards - the first Plastic full body is 35 yards - the first Crow is 25 yards and anything close is aim at the beak.

 

But concentrate on the bird.... if the mount is consistent and the gun fit ok then all should work out. Oh and practise..... it does help.