Longbower Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Having been stuck on two separate occasions recently on Motorways, because of accidents, Should there be a two part test? The first where you are allowed to drive on a PL plate. (passed learner). And a second where you are trained and then tested at higher traffic flow rates on Motorways? As the emergency or controlled stop has now been abandoned on the test, should it be replaced with a "off road" brake test where the ABS has to be activated? (As most newbies were found to take their foot Off as soon as they felt the "cadence effect"?) I just thought while I was sat there for a few hours HOW MUCH it must be costing in peoples wages, and lost appointments and wasted fuel missed flights etc. After all you must take a refresher test for a Forklift after 4 years, and yet we give people a licence for LIFE after driving a car at 30-40 miles an hour for 40 minutes . Health and Safety 'yeh right;. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Seeing as the motorway is the most dangerous place to drive,do you really think having learners on it is a good idea,most people who pass their test don't jump straight on to a motorway. Most accidents on a motorway are caused by careless driving and complacency,it is a dangerous place and your full concentration should be given while driving on it. Edited October 5, 2013 by welsh1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzypigeon Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Motorways are actually safer than residential area most accidents happen in built up areas it's just that the speeds on the motorway means when they do happen the consequences are usually a lot worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT SEARCHER Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 I passed my test at 17. Thats 41 years ago. I passed my HGV 1 test at 21. I passed my PSV test when i was 35. And not any of the test where on the motorways. I have always been amazed that there is no Motorway training or driving has part of the test. I find it ridicules that in this day and age that young drivers are let loose on Motorways with no training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 my boy passed his test years ago, then took an avanced driving test witch you then drive on the motorway.and country lanes, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 This is a difficult one to look at objectively. I think we all viewed the tests with a level of dread and were greatly relieved at the positive outcome. The fact is the TEST is simply a test, driving lessons teach you how to pass the test, not how to drive. People learn to drive in the years after they have passed the test, well, the ones that survive anyway! How many restrictions/costs do we have to place on ourselves, just the same I personally believe that perhaps some compulsory time limit/restrictions be placed on newly passed drivers. But what and how, simply saying a new driver can't use a motorway or go out after dark for a year will achieve little or nothing. I don't know, and I am the first to buck at restrictions/tests/big brother, but accident statistics speak for themselves with newly qualified drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Having been stuck on two separate occasions recently on Motorways, because of accidents, Had the drivers who I'm assuming you mean 'struck' you,recently passed their tests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 No motorways in Cornwall, so do we have to drive 100 miles to take the test? We do have a busy duel carriageway, would that do? I agree there should be something in the test but not just motorways as it is a tad unpractical for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junctiontwo Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Yes absolutely. How ridiculous is it to give a newly qualified driver (especially the nervous ones, and there are plenty of those) instant access to a motorway without any training or experience whatsoever? Whilst admittedly it IS difficult to let learner drivers onto a such roads during the normal working day, such lessons could be saved for weekends and/or on quieter roads such as the M6 Toll, which is empty at the best of times. There is no guidance whatsoever from instructors and this is beyond foolish. I have just returned from holiday where I met a lady who teaches driving instructors and I asked her pretty much the same question. Her reply was simply to quote the Highway Code about lane discipline etc. A 3-point turn on a deserted industrial estate does nothing to prepare little Johnny for 56mph HGV's, nor does it teach them NOT to move to lane 2 as soon as you enter the motorway. I am a long term advocate of motorway training - the sooner the better. Edited October 5, 2013 by junctiontwo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 You can do pass plus which includes motorways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbower Posted October 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Thanks for all the wide and varied views. I have a licence for anything with wheels , and advanced qualifications. But, most of the UK having suffered the anxiety and stress of doing just one test , never want to experience that feeling again. NO ONE, likes to have what they do scrutinised. When I used to do Fleet driver Assessments the "hostility" was quite remarkable. However, some facts; Motorways actually are the safest place to drive ! The most dangerous place on a motorway is the Hard Shoulder.! Due to technology, brakes, and tyres have cut braking distances , However drivers reaction times are still the same. Most drivers do not realise that they can still steer with the ABS activated! Again thanks for all your learned thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbower Posted October 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Some trainers still offer extra training, but the Pass Plus " incentive " is no longer recognised by most insurers, so hardly no one signs up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Worst accident I got stuck in on the motorway was caused by a motorcyclist. They closed the motorway for the air ambulance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Just as an "add on" can you guys give me some an estimate of the average number of lessons, you think, it now takes to pass a driving test - I know you all only took 8 hours, but I'm talking about someone starting from scratch with no practice at home? Can you tell be how long you think the driving test is now? Can you tell me about what percentage of tests taken are passes? Can you guess how much the driving test fee to apply for a test is now? I think the average guy in the street is has lost touch with how the driving test has changed over the years. (I'm a Grade 6 ADI) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodo123 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 I think the test is more stringent and structured from what it used to be, I passed 7 years ago but I see people who have been driving 20+ years and don't understand road markings etc. A prime example is people not giving lhs lane priority at a merger. Also people stopping up each other's *****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Seeing as the motorway is the most dangerous place to drive,do you really think having learners on it is a good idea,most people who pass their test don't jump straight on to a motorway. Most accidents on a motorway are caused by careless driving and complacency,it is a dangerous place and your full concentration should be given while driving on it. statistically speaking im not sure the motorway is the most dangerous place to drive but im not sure if thats true, somewhere i heard there where less accidents on motorways than any other roads. anyone know if theres any truth in that? edited due to longbower already answered this Edited October 5, 2013 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Don't you just love statistics. It is all about how they are presented. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-transport/series/road-accidents-and-safety-statistics When you have ploughed your way through this please let us all know, the list of tables is staggering! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Don't you just love statistics. It is all about how they are presented. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-transport/series/road-accidents-and-safety-statistics When you have ploughed your way through this please let us all know, the list of tables is staggering! I stand by my statement that motorways are the most dangerous place,statistics are skewed because more people drive off motorways than on,so you cannot have a like for like comparison,here are a few facts. Also 90% of motorway accidents are driver error. "There were the following accidents on Major roads 1,818 fatal, 13,284 serious, 88,399 slight on Motorways, A(M) and A roads." Source: National Statistics publication produced by Trabsport Statistics: DfT "Current statistics indicate that …. more than 1,500 people are killed or injured each year on the hard shoulder." Source: Green Flag Motoring Assistance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 I see where you're coming from, but a few lessons involving; indicating at a RaB and the need to go around a mini version and not cut across it (when possible); giving way (particularly when you should) and saying, 'thank you' is not a sign of weakness but actually makes all concerned feel good; slowing down a little in a restricted lane - the guy coming at you may not be as confident as you of driving safely through a 7ft gap at 55mph in the 30mph limit area. Yep, once that's sorted then motorway next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 I stand by my statement that motorways are the most dangerous place,statistics are skewed because more people drive off motorways than on,so you cannot have a like for like comparison,here are a few facts. Also 90% of motorway accidents are driver error. "There were the following accidents on Major roads 1,818 fatal, 13,284 serious, 88,399 slight on Motorways, A(M) and A roads." Source: National Statistics publication produced by Trabsport Statistics: DfT "Current statistics indicate that …. more than 1,500 people are killed or injured each year on the hard shoulder." Source: Green Flag Motoring Assistance I stand by my statement that motorways are the most dangerous place,statistics are skewed because more people drive off motorways than on,so you cannot have a like for like comparison,here are a few facts. Also 90% of motorway accidents are driver error. "There were the following accidents on Major roads 1,818 fatal, 13,284 serious, 88,399 slight on Motorways, A(M) and A roads." Source: National Statistics publication produced by Trabsport Statistics: DfT "Current statistics indicate that …. more than 1,500 people are killed or injured each year on the hard shoulder." Source: Green Flag Motoring Assistance Can't agree with that Welsh - In 2008 there were only 158 people killed on the whole Motorways in the UK, this is just 6% of the total 2,500 road deaths that year. In that year there were 869 serious injuries on the Motorway compared with 26,000 serious injuries overall. Since 2008 the numbers have continued to fall. As all part of the smoke and mirrors of usual government figures, the presentation by County Road safety Officers to groups like Speed Awareness courses and Driver Improvement courses are encouraged to use the KIS figure (Killed/seriously injured) which sounds much more dramatic than deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Having just ploughed through data,i concede i was wrong, 5% of casualties and fatalities occur on motorways although they carry 20% of traffic.this is data from 2012 and is contrary to what i was shown years ago on a course. I was wrong and am prepared to be stoned for my mistake Edited October 5, 2013 by welsh1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 And there are approximately 34 million vehicles in the uk,the majority do not use motorways and so will show more accidents. I think the 'per miles driven' figures show that motorways are safer than other roads. Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Having been stuck on two separate occasions recently on Motorways, because of accidents, Should there be a two part test? It should just be part of the main test, motorway or dual carriage way driving at 70mph. People should be able to merge on to a dual carriageway to match the speed of the traffic then maintain good lane discipline and safety zone between them and the car in front. It's madness this isn't tested. Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 So not being stoned yet I will play devils advocate. With us all agreeing that motorways are the safest place to drive on uk roads, why would we need a test to drive on them, they are already the safest roads with the current test in place. Surely there should be another test to drive on normal a and b roads as these are so dangerous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 It should just be part of the main test, motorway or dual carriage way driving at 70mph. People should be able to merge on to a dual carriageway to match the speed of the traffic then maintain good lane discipline and safety zone between them and the car in front. It's madness this isn't tested. Nial. As I said in a previous post - the average guy is now out of touch with the current driving test. Dual carriageway and national speed limit roads are included in the test if possible, and of course, driving at 70mph would be expected by the examiner if appropriate. The length of the driving test was increased several years ago especially to include dual carriageway (70mph) driving. Now 85% of all test centres are able to include these higher speed reads on the test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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