malkiserow Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 So the challenge is - how can shooters (gun owners) change the attitudes of ordinary people to our sport? I am tired of average joe being against shooters as their default position on hunting or even owning guns. What actions are going to make a positive difference? Yes, there is some charity work but hardly anyone knows about that. What ideas? Or is it a battle we cannot win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) convincing the public to eat game pigeons/rabbits etc is a step in the right direction in my opinion. The likes of mark gilchrist have been behind this theory for a long time. theres no reason why anyone can't enjoy game and obviously it's shooting that provides most the game. to an extent it probably is a battle we can't win but the fact remains, pest control is a big problem in agriculture and shooting is the most efective way of controling pigeons/crows etc. people against such activties which we regard as sport need to see things through a farmers eyes. Edited October 11, 2013 by aga man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 convincing the public to eat game pigeons/rabbits etc is a step in the right direction in my opinion. The likes of mark gilchrist have been behind this theory for a long time. theres no reason why anyone can't enjoy game and obviously it's shooting that provides most the game. to an extent it probably is a battle we can't win but the fact remains, pest control is a big problem in agriculture and shooting is the most efective way of controling pigeons/crows etc. people against such activties which we regard as sport need to see things through a farmers eyes. Good post, well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delburt0 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Never going to happen. Last yr I come in from a flight and was hanging 2 Canada's up in garage when nxt door neighbour pulled up. All hell broke loose ( what the hell you doing bla bla bla I'm partial vegaterian ) Her husband was telling her to shut up as after all we share a beer now and then. I replied partial veggie did you have meat last Sunday with your dinner??? The rest is history I won the debate and ate the geese. We talked the day after as if nothing had happened. No doubt it would happen again given the same situation. I don't think it's the eating of dead things as we all do it , but it's because we have killed it , I think a lot of peoples thinking is if a shooter did not shoot that goose it would still be alive, which is right until tomorrow night when someone else shoots it. I wonder if all these do gooders shout at those behind the meat counter at tescos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 pest control is a big problem in agriculture and shooting is the most efective way of controling pigeons/crows etc. people against such activties which we regard as sport need to see things through a farmers eyes. But they don't because the majority of the population are very blinkered. Tbh the more videos and programs you can get online,(or preferably tv) the better. Could do with more bias info from our side of the argument for a change and not just LACS being at it. ps have you seen the list of celebs on their site that support their 'cause'? Doesn't bode well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 So the challenge is - how can shooters (gun owners) change the attitudes of ordinary people to our sport? I am tired of average joe being against shooters as their default position on hunting or even owning guns. What actions are going to make a positive difference? Yes, there is some charity work but hardly anyone knows about that. What ideas? Or is it a battle we cannot win? Be calm, use sound argument and avoid being confrontational. I went to an optician a few weeks ago and while I was chatting to the receptionist who I know fairly well I mentioned I was going shooting and was surprised to hear her say "shooting birds? You've gone down in my estimate" my first question to her was whether she ate meat and then told her I'd rather eat something that had had at least a semi natural life than had lived in a shed it's whole life. It's hard to argue against that. But I didn't get defensive or annoyed and I always try not to sound like I am trying to force them to change their minds but rather gently show them their hypocrisy. Vegis are even easier believe it or not because you can get them on side by agreeing with them that most people have no idea where their meat really comes from and when they start nodding furiously then say at least I am willing to kill my own food Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 I don't think it's the eating of dead things as we all do it , but it's because we have killed it Yep and they actually think that we get our pleasure from the killing of an 'innocent' animal. They don't understand what we enjoy about hunting/shooting and that's where the comments of sick etc come from. Much better to argue on that single point alone, explain what you love about being out with the gun/dog/other people and the sights you get to see, show them the benefits to conservation and finally how nice it is to eat something that wasn't reared in a cage...at least the birds have a good chance of survival compared to a cow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 When im chatting to people I have no problem mentioning what I do at weekends i.e bunny bashing or clay shooting. To be honest so far I haven't had a single complaint or bad comment most people are intrigued and to be honest a lot of blokes over 40 tend to get a far away look in their eye remembering plinking with their dad or mates at can in the back garden. I have had a couple of people say poor rabbits but when you point out the bunny's have had essentially a free range life compared to say the value chicken down at Tesco's which hasn't the tune changes. I must admit I have yet to meet a rabid veggie bunny hugger but some of them would complain you had leather shoes on! I think we should promote our sport whenever possible as making it a hidden thing gives people the impression there is something wrong and covert with doing it. I regularly offer to take work mates up the club for a round of clays or some targets with the air rifle. When the longer nights are back I have promised to set up a HFT course up our air rifle club and do a BBQ for my work colleges for an evening with a few of the members marshalling. Hopefully it will be a bit of an eye opener for some of the Call of Duty lads on site that not everything is point and hit . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 I think the idea of getting people to eat more game, pigeon, rabbit etc. is a good one. Getting it on peoples plates is a different matter. I was talking to a vegan once, she was completely mad obviously but I had a grudging respect for her no meat or animal goods whatsoever. She was against me shooting animals and birds but she preferred my stance on eating what I kill than the "normal" person who picks up meat from a supermarket. We ended up kind of agreeing that although at different ends of the spectrum we were both right. It shocked other people in the group that she thought I was better than meat eaters who don't kill the own food. Funny where support comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 I think the idea of getting people to eat more game, pigeon, rabbit etc. is a good one. Getting it on peoples plates is a different matter. I was talking to a vegan once, she was completely mad obviously but I had a grudging respect for her no meat or animal goods whatsoever. She was against me shooting animals and birds but she preferred my stance on eating what I kill than the "normal" person who picks up meat from a supermarket. We ended up kind of agreeing that although at different ends of the spectrum we were both right. It shocked other people in the group that she thought I was better than meat eaters who don't kill the own food. Funny where support comes from. Yeh exactly. Most vegis I know just hate the idea of eatting meat but thinks we have a better approach than the tescos shopper who puts no thought in to where the animal comes from. My missus is a vegi but she never says what we do is cruel, she just doesn't want to eat meat. The people who say "shooting birds for the pleasure of killing is disgusting" are usually deluded idiots who actually do eat meat but are just being pious and they're the easy ones to show up as hypocrites. I have way more respect for the people who at least stick to their beliefs like the vegis/vegans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Vegans don't appreciate that farmers have guys in shooting vermin so that they can grow crops..hardly whiter than white. And veggies that'll drink milk, ask them what sort of life a Holstein-Fresian bull calf has.. Most people don't have a clue and don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 A lot ot this stems from a hatred of the so called upper classes and their perceived joy at killing animals for fun.It goes a lot deeper than this obviously but that's where it stems from.Would those same people stop hating those same people if they stopped killing animals?There are also those who genuinely believe that it is not right to kill animals for food. The second category I don't mind,as long as they don't try to enforce their way of life on me.This belief can only exist in those environments where a wealthy society has created an alternative and comfortable lifestyle. We will never change the minds of either but we can explain that practically no wild animal ever dies of old age but instead is either a casualty of disease,starvation or predation,or a combination of one or more. But despite this many find it incredibly difficuilt to understand how any of us can kill a living animal for recreation. Gun owners and gun ownership will forever be in the unfavoured minority without the backing of the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigman Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Had a similar chat with my neighbour once , he was very pleased in telling me that he didn't agree with kill animals for our own benefit until I pointed out he was wearing leather shoes , he ******** off inside after that and never mentioned it again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Mentioned to a colleague I'd been target shooting, he went ape poo. Said he would take a baseball bat to me if I ever shot anywhere near his garden ( live about 8 miles from him so its not likely to be a problem). No argument was accepted, he was only interested in his own viewpoint, would not concede a single point, nothing but blind hostility.. Game / vermin shooting was never mentioned. He is totally anti gun of any kind, he will never be persuaded otherwise and there must be 1000s like him. Yet he has proven himself a hypocrite by wanting to go paintballing and bragging he has a couple of plods from an ARU on his little estate who he regularly socialises with and the conversation eventually gets round to guns which he joins in without condemnation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted October 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Mentioned to a colleague I'd been target shooting, he went ape poo. Said he would take a baseball bat to me if I ever shot anywhere near his garden ( live about 8 miles from him so its not likely to be a problem). No argument was accepted, he was only interested in his own viewpoint, would not concede a single point, nothing but blind hostility.. Game / vermin shooting was never mentioned. He is totally anti gun of any kind, he will never be persuaded otherwise and there must be 1000s like him. Yet he has proven himself a hypocrite by wanting to go paintballing and bragging he has a couple of plods from an ARU on his little estate who he regularly socialises with and the conversation eventually gets round to guns which he joins in without condemnation. And he think that knocking 6 bells out of someone with a different opinion is reasonable? Good job he does't live in Birmingham! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Just be calm, reasonable and informed. If the opportunity arises where you can bring shooting into a conversation and have a sensible discussion you stand a fair chance of educating an otherwise surprisingly ignorant public. On the other hand, it is like religion. Some people are utterly fixed and unmoving in their pointy of view, they have a belief and will not budge. We are all "walking advertisements" for shooting and need to be seen to take our shooting seriously and responsibly. Some posts in shooting forums are quite damaging, as are the attitudes of some shooters. At the end of the day it is all down to education. What we do is "good" and the benefits to everyone are considerable but there is a vociferous anti shooting minority and an easily lead majority who are often a lot better at publicity and self promotion than we are. Schools are a key area where there should be open discussion but children, particularly outside the private sector, are not exposed to the benefits of shooting and there tends to be a rather hysterical response by the media. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2420152/Eastbournes-West-Rise-Junior-School-took-children-young-8-shooting-trip.html The head of that school should be congratulated not persecuted. A brave man who dared put himself above the parapet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Promoting game meat as a healthy, free range and environmentally friendly meat is a good way to start. The free range part a lot of people understand but the fact that it is sustainable and very healthy (low fat, high protein) is important as well. A huge majority of the British public eat meat (the percentage of vegetarians is either 4% or 6%, I can't remember which). Try to respond to any anti news articles or newspaper letters if possible. If the antis' claims go unchallenged, people will believe them. By responding with the pro shooting side you'll stop a lot of people currently sitting on the fence from being easily taken in by the antis' arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remmyman Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 And he think that knocking 6 bells out of someone with a different opinion is reasonable? Good job he does't live in Birmingham! What's the betting that had you have said something along the lines of 'in that case I'd have had to defend myself,with a gun if necessary' he'd have been straight on the blower to plod telling them how you'd just threatened to shoot him! Regards Remmyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted October 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Quite possibly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Did my bit for this cause on Saturday. A friend and I had returned back to the boat mooring after a morning flight on a Norfolk broad. The mooring is in a public area and there were 3 women (from Deal in Kent on a weeks break) that I would guess were in their 50's/60's standing next to where we had to pull in. In the boat were us two, a dog and a heap of decoys. They proceeded to ask what we had been doing, to which I answered "trying to get diner". We then had a nice positive discussion about shooting, and the food it can provide though they had no knowledge about shooting/hunting. They appeared to be very interested and polite, although I must admit at first I thought that we were going to get a tongue lashing as they looked like the atypical antis. We bumped into them later too, and had another chat and I gave them some pointers as to places in the district that may have been of interest for them to visit as they were very much nature lovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Its my experience that where shooting is concerned there are four groups of people. The first supports shooting and understand what we do. The second is mildly interested, prepared to listen, draw their own conclusions, but have other things more important in their lives. The third group couldn't care less, have no opinion and are not that interested either way. The fourth hate shooting, don't want to understand or listen and have firmly entrenched views. The first, second and third group should not concern us greatly,they are our friends. The fourth group are to be avoided, if this is not possible then revert to the "smile and nod" approach, never try to debate with them. They are not going to convert you to their way of thinking and vice versa, so don't waste your breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxus77 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) its the total disconnect between the food in supermarket and how its killed and produced, programs like "Kill it, cook it , eat it" went some way to help aderss this disconnect but we need to see this again, maybe they could show more around game animals. I think some of the cooking programs are starting to touch the subject but again a far way off from being a positive influence totally agree with comments around getting more game into the everyday meat consumed within the UK but its a huge task. personally much rather kill an animal and eat it than buy it from one of the big supermarkets especially after the meat scandals of last year ! cant wait for my turkey this year should be a 30lb'er after seeing him the other day, I will be helping my friend (butcher of 25 years) to kill, butcher and dress them looking forward to learning more on the butchery side thinking on it surely basic meat knowledge should be taught more in schools also ? Edited October 14, 2013 by maxus77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert manchester gun Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Without reading all of the above, Maybe if they known the really process of the food they eat these days like the government wearing chemical suits to spray your veg and chickens born of test tubes yet the FDA dont feel the need to label this on the products or even have to give a reason/s as to why they do this... G.M.O food vs true game taste testing?? Unlabelled then they decide what they like best then reveal the products ?! I may even make this into a video and post it on youtube? Would anyone be will to help the cause? Pm me to get this started.. But to be honest with all the do gooders we will never win the battle as they are ignorant as to the reasons we do this.. Where do they think their prime cut "farmer" meat comes from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Its my experience that where shooting is concerned there are four groups of people. The first supports shooting and understand what we do. The second is mildly interested, prepared to listen, draw their own conclusions, but have other things more important in their lives. The third group couldn't care less, have no opinion and are not that interested either way. The fourth hate shooting, don't want to understand or listen and have firmly entrenched views. The first, second and third group should not concern us greatly,they are our friends. The fourth group are to be avoided, if this is not possible then revert to the "smile and nod" approach, never try to debate with them. They are not going to convert you to their way of thinking and vice versa, so don't waste your breath. Your third group CAN BE the dangerous ones as they tend to change their minds on a whim depending on what is in the newspapers that day. They are also a much larger group than the fourth group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiffy Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) ill be honest and say i havent read all the answers on here yet but for me theres several things that can be done education a hell of a lot of non shooters believe what we do is 'cruel' i wish i had a quid for every time ive been told that... my view is its much more humane to have a creature run/fly around free and happy until that moment rather than something farmed with no space no freedom then taken to a slaughter house. financial support we need to get more financial support to our shooting sports, we did well at the olympics this time around and peter wilson did wonders for publicity by winning gold but how good would it be to see many many more brits up there next time around publicity lets get game meet in more supermarkets on cooking tv... basc and similar groups do wonders but lets see them pushing this as well... get people wanting game not turning their nose up at it how many people buy free range and are happy paying more for it.. how much more free range can we get than the stuff we shoot in the field... Edited October 14, 2013 by kiffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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