Working Notice

[Paul T]

Right Gents

 

It's a long one so bear with me...I've decided it's time to move on, mainly because my immediate manager is a complete dictatorial, clueless idiot who is making my life a misery. We've lost a lot of staff over the last 12 months, because of the situation and there's more to go (2 handing in notice in next few days). Trouble is I'm on 3 months notice, but I may have a job in the pipeline that wants me ASAP. So, the question is: What can an employer do to enforce working notice period or even threaten to claim 'compensation' if I walked after a month.

 

To add some more info, they initially offered me a job over 2 years ago, but 2 weeks before I was due to start (after 3 months notice again!) they delayed my start date by 6 months! My appointment was not conditional in any way, but I was basically over a barrel at the time and reluctantly had to accept. I managed to do some consultancy work for 4 months with my old employer, but I was essentially left for for over 2 months with no cash whatsoever from my new employer!

 

Sooooo, my gut feeling is to tell them to whistle for 2 months of notice, as it makes me instantly more employable, and in view of them taking the piddle over the start date, but what is the consensus of opinion? Can they enforce me to work full notice? Can they REALLY try and claim compensation if I go after a month?

 

Please, no-one suggest speaking to HR about anything - they have previously been asked to investigate threats of physical violence to two members of staff and it got brushed under the carpet, not to mention a host of other minor issues. They really are inept and so wrapped up in their own procedures that they are completely ineffective at dealing with anything on a disciplinary matter.

[TaxiDriver]

Go Sick and start with the new firm ?

Does your current outfit owe you any holiday ?

can you reasonably suspect they may not pay you if you do work for them ?

[JustJon]

If the new firm want you, they'll wait 3 months. It's nothing in the grand scheme of things.

[Paddy Galore!]

3 months is a hell of a long time to wait, surely a months notice is enough, either that or create merry hell and get the sack first, would they pay you 3 months in lieu of notice if they did sack you?

[JustJon]

3 months is a hell of a long time to wait, surely a months notice is enough, either that or create merry hell and get the sack first, would they pay you 3 months in lieu of notice if they did sack you?

I'm on 3 months, normally due to being either a specialist that's hard to replace or knowing confidential info (I.e. You'd go on gardening leave for 3 months).

 

A previous boss was on 6 months... I changed job 6 months ago and still haven't been replaced. Sometimes it takes a whole.

[Paul T]

If the new firm want you, they'll wait 3 months. It's nothing in the grand scheme of things.

It might come down to availability to get the job, so makes a difference, especially when they need someone to hit the ground running ASAP

 

3 months is a hell of a long time to wait, surely a months notice is enough, either that or create merry hell and get the sack first, would they pay you 3 months in lieu of notice if they did sack you?

Nah, I'd lose everything if sacked, plus 3 months is in my contract. I'd sooner walk after a month and them begrudgingly accept it - Architecture is a fickle and incestuous field as you always end up working with someone you knew in the past!

[Paddy Galore!]

would they let you work out your contract on a freelance basis then? that might give you a bit of lea way and not interfere too much with the new job.

[goodo123]

Bang in some overtime for time in lieu then use remaining holiday.

[shaun4860]

It might come down to availability to get the job, so makes a difference, especially when they need someone to hit the ground running ASAP

 

Nah, I'd lose everything if sacked, plus 3 months is in my contract. I'd sooner walk after a month and them begrudgingly accept it - Architecture is a fickle and incestuous field as you always end up working with someone you knew in the past!

This sort of answers it.

 

At some point you may end up with a chance of a top notch job, stumbling point would be that someone from your present employer might be high up in said firm (we are talking theoretically remember)

They will remember you walked out on this job leaving them in the lurch and might think twice about employing you

 

3 months isn't that long but only you can decide what's best for you

 

[junctiontwo]

I'm on 3 months, normally due to being either a specialist that's hard to replace or knowing confidential info (I.e. You'd go on gardening leave for 3 months).

 

 

 

Ditto.

 

Are you moving to a competitor or within the same industry? If so then is he the sort of bloke that would negotiate gardening leave as you could potentially be taking data etc with you? From what you've said though it doesn't sound as though he is. Could you 'suggest' that company info would be useful to your potential new employer?

 

Based on my experience it really comes down to the individual company or individual. If they're reasonable then you have a good chance, but if not it's 3 months notice. I've just re-read your post and notice you say 'immediate manager'. I assume that he has seniors to whom he reports? You say that HR is a no-no, but surely there's ONE half-decent member of management you could approach?

 

That said, I've been in EXACTLY your position...................and I empathise mate.

Edited October 21, 2013 by junctiontwo

[Paul T]

would they let you work out your contract on a freelance basis then? that might give you a bit of lea way and not interfere too much with the new job.

Not a chance I could do both. I don't have enough hours to keep up with my present job, let alone split between the two - it's pretty full-on and demanding.

 

Shaun - that's EXACTLY the position I'm in! I run into ex-colleagues all the time and even my new next door neighbour currently works for one of my old employers!

 

Junctiontwo - I've tried going more senior and while they acknowledge the problem, they are basically reluctant to get too involved. I explained to them that I can't carry on working in such an environment as the job is stressful enough without someone playing silly beggars too! It just gets shrugged off. The whole thing is a mess, but I can't see it's going to change unless there's a massive showdown. I'll not be taking any data or customers with me - I suppose I'm the only thing of value really and they want to hang on to me as long as they can!

[100milesaway]

Give your notice in and then immediatly go on the sick ( stress). No one should be expected to work under intolerable conditions. Go to your new employer and explain that you can freelance for 3 months and ask them to make you a full time employer in 3 months time. from Auntie.

Edited October 21, 2013 by 100milesaway

[chrisjh]

A well organised company should have succession planning in place, last time i had someone from my senior team leave their replacement was already in the wings, we did a job and finish handover in 6 weeks rather than 12, is there anybody within your company that you can mentor on a fast track handover.

[Alex C]

I have had experience of this lately. One of my assistants upped and left only giving a weeks notice when he should have given a month. Basically there is nothing the employer can do to enforce it. The cost of an employer taking an ex employee to court to try and sue someone would be prohibitive so that will never happen. As HR said to me ' we cant force him to work here'

 

At the end of the day if you want to go, just give them a date and then walk. But be under no illusion that all bridges will be well and truley torched !!

 

Hope all goes well with the new job.

[harrypen]

Not a chance I could do both. I don't have enough hours to keep up with my present job, let alone split between the two - it's pretty full-on and demanding.

 

Shaun - that's EXACTLY the position I'm in! I run into ex-colleagues all the time and even my new next door neighbour currently works for one of my old employers!

 

Junctiontwo - I've tried going more senior and while they acknowledge the problem, they are basically reluctant to get too involved. I explained to them that I can't carry on working in such an environment as the job is stressful enough without someone playing silly beggars too! It just gets shrugged off. The whole thing is a mess, but I can't see it's going to change unless there's a massive showdown. I'll not be taking any data or customers with me - I suppose I'm the only thing of value really and they want to hang on to me as long as they can!

 

If what you have posted is correct , and you feel that the non-performance of HR and the intrangisence (sp) of higher officers to get their act together is making your position untenable ,, then put as much notice in as you want along with a letter stating that you are dissatisfied with their apparent lack of care towards your wellbeing and continuing employment and that you are asking in writing for them to address your concerns , and that if they cannot or will not take action by the notice date that you have given them , that you will leave on that date ...... keep a copy and ask the person that you give it to , to sign your copy of that letter to say that they received it in its entirety ,,,,,,,,,,,, you have then covered your **** 101 for when you leave on your stated date ........ Been there .... Done that ...... Got the tee shirt and the new job

 

But that was me ,,,, your going to have to do something eventually ,,,,, So either suck it up Or move on

Edited October 22, 2013 by harrypen

[ferguson_tom]

I would just write your notice to HR saying you are leaving and set the date, chances are if they are that useless they wont even notice you are on a 3 month notice period and then you can just leave when you want. Just because it says 3 months in the contract doesnt mean it has to be 3 months if you come to an agreement with your employer before hand might not be an issue at all.

[aris]

I am not a lawyer, but what can they do if you resign with 30 days notice even though your contract says 90 days? It is a contract - the worst they can do is sue you in a civil court for breach of contract. Will they?

 

If the tables were turned and they asked you to leave - but you had 3 months notice, I suspect they would just pay you 3 months salary and possibly put you on gardening leave.

 

Employment is not slavery - they don't own you.

Edited October 22, 2013 by aris

[phaedra1106]

I worked in a similar environment with a "Richard" head for a boss. Final straw came after I'd worked 4 months solid, 7 days a week, overtime every night while the rest of the staff were doing 5 days 9-5 to make sure a project was completed on time. I'd not had a holiday for 3 years so took a week off, due to persistent headaches I ended up getting my head scanned (which luckily was clear). When I got back to work I was summoned to the MDs office and told that comments had been made about me being off, basically "typical. he's never here when you need him" sort of stuff. That was the last straw, I gave them 2 weeks notice citing appalling working conditions and due to the ongoing headaches told him I would be off sick for the remainder of my notice.

 

Of course all Hell broke loose, I got letters saying I was in breach of contract, had to work 3 months notice, couldn't work for anyone in the same field for 6 months as I had proprietary information etc. etc. I ignored everything and when I went to collect my final cheque I was threatened with legal action, I just laughed and said "you do realise that you never gave me a contract to sign don't you?" they had been so busy trying to intimidate me nobody had checked that I'd actually signed a contract of employment

 

So after a couple of weeks lazing about stress free the headaches stopped and I started my own business and was a lot happier

Edited October 22, 2013 by phaedra1106

[DNS]

Give your notice in and then immediatly go on the sick ( stress). No one should be expected to work under intolerable conditions. Go to your new employer and explain that you can freelance for 3 months and ask them to make you a full time employer in 3 months time. from Auntie.

 

 

...because one thing which will really enhance your future employment prospects is a period of work related stress right? Or maybe fraudulantly claiming sick pay whilst working for someone else?

 

Three months is not very long; if you're any good your future employer will see that. It also works both ways, if your employer was to terminate your contract I'm sure you would expect them to honour your contractual notice period.

 

With respect to your original question, if you want a legal opinion you need to ask a lawyer. In my 30 years of hiring (and to be fair, firing) I've rarely seen anyone held to their full notice period unless it is to keep them out of the market because they're going to a competitor. Even then it's always been garden leave; no employer wants someone cluttering up the workplace when they no longer give a monkey's.

Edited October 22, 2013 by DNS

[Thunderbird]

 

 

...because one thing which will really enhance your future employment prospects is a period of work related stress right? Or maybe fraudulantly claiming sick pay whilst working for someone else?

 

Three months is not very long; if you're any good your future employer will see that. It also works both ways, if your employer was to terminate your contract I'm sure you would expect them to honour your contractual notice period.

 

With respect to your original question, if you want a legal opinion you need to ask a lawyer. In my 30 years of hiring (and to be fair, firing) I've rarely seen anyone held to their full notice period unless it is to keep them out of the market because they're going to a competitor. Even then it's always been garden leave; no employer wants someone cluttering up the workplace when they no longer give a monkey's.

 

What he said.

 

Some of the other horse-crud advice on this thread really does beggar belief.

[Fatcatsplat]

Suck it up mate.

 

I've done 3 stints of gardening so far and your best bet is to resign now and request that you be able to leave early, which they may consider, as nobody wants to keep paying a worker that is now completely disconnected. They may let you do a shortened handover period - You never know 'til you ask

 

Be warned though that being caught poaching off your old firm or breaking any restrictive covenant within any time period can lead to very serious legal consequences and if you work in any kind of incestuous industry where you're kissing the bum you kicked last week it pays to be very mindful.

[Thunderbird]

Suck it up mate.

 

I've done 3 stints of gardening so far and your best bet is to resign now and request that you be able to leave early, which they may consider, as nobody wants to keep paying a worker that is now completely disconnected. They may let you do a shortened handover period - You never know 'til you ask

 

Be warned though that being caught poaching off your old firm or breaking any restrictive covenant within any time period can lead to very serious legal consequences and if you work in any kind of incestuous industry where you're kissing the bum you kicked last week it pays to be very mindful.

 

Another good one. Best to not show your hand right away either, a lot of employers will come up with a proposition to let you out early if it suits them on the balance of cost/benefit.

 

The best way to not get garden leave or PILON is to ask for it straight away.

[millrace]

just ****** off,,

as an employer i can tell you having someone who doesent want to be there but wants their paycheck is a right kick in the teeth espically in a recession and in the construction industry, no one is unreplaceable no matter what they think or how good they may think they are at their job....i can assure you no employer will push it to cost more money chasing someone who wants away.......best rid!!

[Paladin]

 

If what you have posted is correct , and you feel that the non-performance of HR and the intrangisence (sp) of higher officers to get their act together is making your position untenable ,, then put as much notice in as you want along with a letter stating that you are dissatisfied with their apparent lack of care towards your wellbeing and continuing employment and that you are asking in writing for them to address your concerns , and that if they cannot or will not take action by the notice date that you have given them , that you will leave on that date ...... keep a copy and ask the person that you give it to , to sign your copy of that letter to say that they received it in its entirety ,,,,,,,,,,,, you have then covered your **** 101 for when you leave on your stated date ........ Been there .... Done that ...... Got the tee shirt and the new job

 

But that was me ,,,, your going to have to do something eventually ,,,,, So either suck it up Or move on

 

 

I'm with harrypen on this put it in writing and tell them that you have no confidence in the management and no support. I was in this position some months back, HR swearing and in a rage, manager threatening to change my contract. I had a week off with stress, went back and handed in my resignation and put my holidays to my notice. It was worth it just to see their faces.

Tell your future employer about it and I'm sure they will be sympathetic about your situation.

I'm in a better place now.

Their lack of support is unlawful,

 

[Kes]

Make the arrangements cast iron with your new employer. Get an offer in writing for at least a months notice and then resign from your old job, explaining the reasons why you find it impossible to continue in your present role - not the company, just the role.

Then ask them for early release as you are finding your job satisfaction has disappeared and the pressure of work in the current situation is unmanageable - you needed advice and support and dont get any and being conscientious, its not a situation you can live with.

If they say no - take the odd, increasingly frequent day(s) off say pressure of work.(Dont get 'stress' or 'anxiety' in this discussion at all, I'm guessing you are SGC or FAC?), see the quack.

You should keep faith with your employing company who will recognise the manager is u/s, even if they cant deal with him properly.

Keep your new company advised.

All the best - chart your own course - this is just a suggestion.