statto Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Gents Would it be reasonable to assume that any syndicate has a map of the land it has permissions to shoot over? If you were setting up a syndicate would this be one of your main priorities? Would you be happy beating/ being part of a syndicate that cannot define its boundaries clearly for all shooters/ beaters? All comments/advice greatfully recieved. Cheers Statto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Syndicate I was in gave everyone a shoot map with the boundaries highlighted in red its common sense and keeps everyone right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 I'd insist on it, tbh. Armed trespass is a very serious offence, and ignorance is not a defence in a courtroom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 I'd expect those in charge to tell you exactly where and where you can't go as often there are agreements in place to shoot over or beat over boundaries. We have loads of places we cut across or line up on neighbours lands on most ground I shoot on and usually the agreements are 2 way and help the neighbours with some of their drives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 To me it is a bit of a strange question. Presuming you are talking about a driven game syndicate why would there be a need for anyone to be given a map. Guns would be placed on their pegs by the shoot captain and beaters would follow specific instructions given to them by the keeper or whoever was in charge of them. Even with an amateur DIY walk one shoot one shoot I would expect members to know the land they rented and beaters to be under strict supervision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Do you mean shooting with a rifle or game days? There's a difference here. On game days folk are more liberal and understand the need to pick birds and put stops in certain places. Landowners reciprocate and it can work well both ways. It's different usually when you're out and about with a rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza9t9 Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 I beat last yeah on a shoot as was not given a map however it quickly became apparent the land we where using. I have joined the same shoot as a gun this year and I have been shown a map. It is a small shoot, but surely one would want to know the boundaries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 The original question was Gents Would it be reasonable to assume that any syndicate has a map of the land it has permissions to shoot over? If you were setting up a syndicate would this be one of your main priorities? Would you be happy beating/ being part of a syndicate that cannot define its boundaries clearly for all shooters now, on the shoot that I am on, we can go up to carry out pest control for the farmer, so a shoot map with clearly marked boundaries is absolutely essential. On the shoot days (walk one, stand one), the shoot captain has marked up laminated maps which he uses to show the guns their places, and the beaters to arrange who is going where (stops, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 The above is a very sensible answer. On the wee walk and stand i run there is a large A3 size map in hut with boundries marked, but i see no reason why every individual gun beater should have a map, on a shoot day the captain or who ever is looking after ur team should know them. Usually pretty straight forward. Different if ur doing pest control on ur own, dunno if u woud need a map BUT u must have had them clearly pointed out to u and UNDERSTOOD them. Best to go with someone else first few times possibly if ur in any doubt about boundries If u were setting up/starting a syndicate would probably depend on type off lease, if totally offical it would have a map along with a load of terms and conditions that u would sign, if a verbal hand shake with the farmer it will probably be a vague wave off hands and those fields over there type thing. If any doubt get the farmer to run round them quickly. Just be sure u know the boundries (A handy tip is to look at the gates, generally if no gates on a fence often not his land on other side, even if a gate is it used? if very unused (no sign of tracks tyre or animal) may still be a boundry despite gate. Gates are a good general rule off thumb thou, but find out abd any doubt don't go there and ask Boundry fences tend to look different too often higher, extra scare fence or hedge will be higher more tall trees, once u know wot ur looking for quite easy to spot a boundry. Althou not 100% in some cases if land been bought/sold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb79 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 I joined a club once which had around 8-10 farms on its books. No maps available. All had to be memorised they said. Not for me!- I said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 If, say, you were setting up a syndicate, a map would provide the guide for any potential tenant to check 'on the ground' that the person offering the land was in a legal position to do so. Essential, I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statto Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Many thanks for all the replies. The majority have confirmed what I was thinking. I took a 1/2 gun in a syndicate which appears on the face of it to be OK. However despite repeated request for a map none have been proffered. You get excuse's like we are taking on more land so the boundaries are to say in a state of flux. I want a map for two reasons:- 1. When the time/ season allows we are allowed to rough shoot/ vermin control over the land. 2. Potential to effectively commit "armed trespass" Now I ain't shot the ground yet either on an official shoot day or for vermin control. If a map cannot be produced do you think it is reasonable to ask for my money back? A map seems like common sense to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Get your money back. There is something fishy going on. A map defining the boundaries should be the number one prerequisite for anyone joining a syndicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Game shooting syndicate. Me, Shoot Captain, knows the boundaries. Ian, Keeper, knows the boundaries. Everyone else goes where we send them. All covered on the briefing. Pickers up in doubt ask us. Not a problem. Most of my brushers couldn't read a map anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNS Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 ....do you think it is reasonable to ask for my money back? I don't think it's unreasonable, but I think you're cutting your nose off to spite your face. Why don't you invest in a map and a pen and ask the shoot captain to mark it up for you? I've been in my current syndicate for three seasons and - when in the driven season, as many other have said - you go where you're told. By the end of the season, you'll have a much better idea of the landholding; you may well have met the farmers or landowners. At this time, in your first season with the syndicate and as a half gun, if you asked for your money back with my lot you would get it straight away and one of the long waiting list would take your place the very next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 I was given a map and then driven round the land to make sure I knew it and when any problem neighbours were, it's common sense really, saying that my farmer friend just pointed his fields out to me once and when he gets new land he tells me, no map or written permission on his land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) Game shooting syndicate. Me, Shoot Captain, knows the boundaries. Ian, Keeper, knows the boundaries. Everyone else goes where we send them. All covered on the briefing. Pickers up in doubt ask us. Not a problem. Most of my brushers couldn't read a map anyway... That's the way we run it too. There'll always be a shout "Oi, get orrfff my land" if someone strays. LOL Edited November 13, 2013 by PhilR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) I agree with the above, really no reason for u to have a map, or atleast until season ends if u can't shoot vermin till then anyway. The boundries may be totaly obvious anyway so no need for a map, Where u not shown round before u joined? Don't worry about it, go to the first shoot day enjoy it and try and figure it out as u go, on a shoot day it will not be an issue Speaking as a shoot captain i would say ur money will already have been spent be it on birds rent or food, most small soots run on very tight budgets and simply could not afford to pay ur money back If a gun threatened to pull out my shoot over a map which is not necesary, i would be absolutely raging as that money will probably come out of my own pocket (althou i would not give u a refund at this time of year), bad enough the hours and expenses shoot captains/keepers on DIY shoots do for no thanks or expenses without having to dip into ur own pocket, i twice went into the red on my personal account this year through writting cheques to cover things for the shoot as guns where slow to pay subs I'm generally quite a nice reasonble bloke but if a gun done that to me at this time of year i would be absolutley livid and go out off my way and tell every other shoot captain in the area not to touch him with a barge pole and the reason why. I personally think it is the hieght of ignorance to even think about (leaving a shoot at this time of year and expecting ur money back), but thats just me, no doubt others will think i'm out of order. Edit added the bit in brackets above as wasnae very clear before Edited November 14, 2013 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Not out of order at all, a map does cost pennies though at most and takes seconds to print, if piece of mind is what's needed it can't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 For pigeon shooting permissions I've used Google Earth to get the locations and clarified the boundaries with the farmer and drawn them on. If the OP is that concerned about the boundaries of the shoot he could do similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) Pehaps the shoot captain has enough on his plate running the shoot as well as his day job and family and doesnae have time to print a map that may not even be needed. The OP has not even been to a shoot yet it will probably become very clear when he goes to first 1, really a mountain over a molehill Edited November 14, 2013 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statto Posted November 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 This will be my first season as a gun on this shoot but I do beat on two other shoots when time allows. My beating is done on shoots with maps. Clear boundaries either on one big map for all to see or individual maps given to each gun. Not too worried about shoot days on the new shoot as , as people have pointed out the shoot captain is there to direct proceeding as he sees fit. In this situation I have the responsibility to shoot safe and behave in a proper manner. However I would like a warm and fuzzy that I was stood on legal ground. As a part gun on the new shoot I have done the beating on the last two shoot days. never seen a map of any description used and there are a lot of new guns present. My main issue is with the out of season shooting. Its alright during the season when the more experienced are around to direct proceedings. Out of season the "we have around 2000 acres" doesn't really cut it. Cutting my nose off to spite my face has crossed my mind if I'm honest. However I think seeing a map is a reasonable request. I like the suggestion of using an ariel view off google earth and getting the shoot captain to mark it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Never, in over 50 years of shooting, have I ever heard of or seen a syndicate providing maps for the guns or beaters. For heaven's sake, get on your peg and enjoy the shooting, maps are for ramblers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statto Posted November 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 As I said it a'int the peg shooting that's the issue. Its the rough shooting boundaries that concern me more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 I think that many have missed your requirement for a map when you are rough shooting rather than on a driven shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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