110csw Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 What are your views on these? I'm wondering if it would help with steadiness training as if the dog bolts you can correct/punish while she's in the act so to speak. I know a few Gamies (including a head keeper) who use them but I also know guys that'd rather give up dog handling than use one. Cheers, Paddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Aboration : If You use these, YOU have lost the plot: NOT the dog.. Get yourself learnt, its You that needs Training:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1087 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Aboration : If You use these, YOU have lost the plot: NOT the dog.. Get yourself learnt, its You that needs Training:: +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 On the other side some will beat it out of a dog whereas a collar catches them in the act and sorts it out straight away. Don't forget most have a beep function that they soon learn means stop so shocking is rare, it's also adjustable in power. Personally it's a bit like a long lead if used properly but with less chance of injuring the dog if you are too severe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Aboration : If You use these, YOU have lost the plot: NOT the dog.. Get yourself learnt, its You that needs Training:: oh the irony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutt Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Well then I'am not afraid to admitting to using one and I'am sure lots have. As a last resort with a very hard going spaniel it was to stop her chasing and I mean owt that moved or get rid as a pet and even then telling a new owner that they would probably not be able to take the dog out unless it was on a lead would put them off so mybe in the end I would have had to had her p.t.s anyway beeps would not stop this lass from bolting so I zapped her on low mode with no effect up one notch and she stopped in her tracks so all in all I used it twice when flushing rabbits in a pen it didn't stop her drive but did stop her chasing she ended up one of the best dogs I owned .But I have seen these things used to try and make a dog a remote control gundog they have to be use correctly and the ground work put down at least a month or two in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110csw Posted November 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 On the other side some will beat it out of a dog whereas a collar catches them in the act and sorts it out straight away. Don't forget most have a beep function that they soon learn means stop so shocking is rare, it's also adjustable in power. Personally it's a bit like a long lead if used properly but with less chance of injuring the dog if you are too severe. That's what I thinking. I know some guys that swear by beating the dog half to death on the thought of "that'll teach it". Anyway cheers for both sides. I do plan on employing the long lead technique as of this week (when I borrow one for the local stables lol) as that's free. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Just another tool in the box. I have used one on a dog similar to the one scutt describes, most people who think they are the end of the world have never had to work with a properly hard headed dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Illegal here in Wales, but would never use one even if they were legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I'm not a fan but i do think used as they were intended by someone who knows and understands wot he's doing they can have a place for problem dogs. I would say the majority of owners who do use they wrong or badly, nd u could very easyily ruin a dog with 1. U should never see 1 wearing 1 on a shoot day 'just in case' yet u often do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorismyhero Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 A measure of last resort.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I have one and used it to stop a dog that would on occasion completely ignore you with no warning running through the line of guns during a drive and taking a bird of another dog. He was whistled and shouted repeatedly given the vibrate function first before getting the shock. I have tried the collar on myself on full power and whilst unpleasant does not hurt but give a quick shock similar to cattle/horse fencing. Dogs are like people some are very good and easily trained others are are little **** and will try doing as they please if they think they can get away with it. figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I'd use one if I needed to, a useful tool for those that know what they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBLATCH Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Just another tool in the box. I have used one on a dog similar to the one scutt describes, most people who think they are the end of the world have never had to work with a properly hard headed dog. +1 for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Bear Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Just another tool in the box. I have used one on a dog similar to the one scutt describes, most people who think they are the end of the world have never had to work with a properly hard headed dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 I have used one in the past, they are brilliant for Certain Jobs on certain dogs (real hard headed stock worriers). Problem is its too tempting to use them for other stuff and that can ruin an otherwise good dog. An aversion tool par excellence IF used correctly. Sold mine on here the other week, to the right guy with the right purpose and a genuine need. One thing should be set in stone- IF your dog needed a collar ITS NOT BREEDING STOCK ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Sorry about coming BACK on this post, But those things Kill the Gleam in the Dogs eyes, Ask anybody who has a decent Dog, Will tell tell you they trained the dog, To get the BEST out of it, Not a cringer.. Look in a well trained dogs eyes on here, the light has not gone out of them, in fact the very opposite.. They love to go out, not dread it.. Rant over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx10mike Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 my dog used to run off if it saw another dog running the risk of getting run over and vexing me.he was only young so i bought one of these collars i put it on my self first and tried all 4 settings on my neck.the 4th was comparable to an electric fence just one pulse.i put it on the dog and before you ever press the shock button there is a warning tone.within a week the warning tone stopped him and made him heal.within 2 weeks he stopped and came to heal on comand .ben is my best friend and i never needed to use it again but it has meant i have had a well trained dog that never needs a lead all his life.i saw the collar as being much kinder than the treatment most dogs get in the hands of a strict farmer. in short it worked well and did the job in 2 weeks.i understand why people think they are wrong and in the wrong persons hands they would be cruel but for me and ben my lab it was spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutt Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 In a perfect world we all want to do right by our dogs and train them by the book and not like it used to be done years ago when dog breaker was the term used for trainers Reality you can do all the steady work with dummies steadying pen hens ducks pigeons and even a rabbit pen BUT when out hunting and in that mode the dog switches to chase what do you do run out tell him he's a naughty boy and give him a shake next time you put more pressure on and so on some dogs are both clever (they now you can't get to them when they are out running) and hard they start to think it's normal for you to run out after them and play war with them and so it goes on you end up with a dog that you can't trust is a danger to it's self even worse if its a soft dog you kill its drive..take it to a proper trainer who tells you to get rid.Now if you can't get that dog to do as it should by a gruff voice and a shake and all the returns back to basic training have little effect what then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBLATCH Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 imo its every man to their own,, if we all trained dogs in the same manner and attitude along with what we read would we all have a ftch or rock steady dog ? very doubtfull !!!! i have bred ftch AND used collars in basic training ive also done without the collar in basic training and made nothing, its down to the individual owner what they think is the best way forward and suits their dog amd them, not the ranting sideliner who may have hit lucky with a dog that takes all,,not all dogs are the same,, nor are the trainers,,only IF it would be a perfect dog training world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Sold mine on here the other week, to the right guy with the right purpose and a genuine need. One thing should be set in stone- IF your dog needed a collar ITS NOT BREEDING STOCK ! kent, clarify for me, please. Do you mean if a dog "needs" an e-collar for harrassing sheep or chasing deer, "it's not breeding stock?" Otherwise, if a dog was possessed of all the great traits for a gundog, but hadn't been trained, are you saying it shouldn't be bred from if the e-collar was used in training it? I can tell you that a proclivity for AC/DC isn't bred into dogs that do wear the e-collar as part of a sequential training programme. And the gleam doesn't go out of their eyes, either - though must admit that's one of the few photos I've got of my dogs' actually fowling whilst wearing the e-collar. Training, always, and the gleam - and the "go" - are still there in abundance. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Cracker the fact is if a dog is so hard headed it cant be stock broken in the traditional way nearly all can, if it has already enjoyed a kill maybe? Then the collar is great and saves the dog from PTS. Its also good for other aversion training, the timing can be spot on between action and correction. No good for breeding because that Hard headed temperament is not desirable! If you use them as a run of the mill tool on all dogs well what can I say? I disagree very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Good piece of equipment when used corectly and doubles up as a training aid for children. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Don't do it. They might work for an experienced trainer who knows what they're doing but then an experienced trainer shouldn't need one. They are not for a novice or someone inexperienced. I was persuaded to use one by a 'real trainer' and I regret it! At the end of the day the shock isn't nice and your dog will learn to with stand it so that he can do what ever behavior you are trying to correct so you might have to use higher settings. I don't have time to go in to the full details but mine will be going in the bin. I now have a trainer that uses positive reinforcement techniques and in 5 weeks the improvement is amazing. In my limited time in the shooting world I have realized there are some seriously backward thinking techniques (and people) which belong in the past. There is enough evidence now that shows that positive reinforcement works as well or better than aversion training! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag357 Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Tried one on the wife but could not get high enough voltage to make it effective....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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