Romanians and Bulgarians invading UK

[felly100]

If we get a vote on leaving the EU and a yes vote is returned,

would all EU member migrants lose their jobs?

I can't imagine business leaders would be chuffed about that.

[The Croc]

Agree to a point, it is the typical pyramid effect situation where the biggest issue is not the few skilled workers but the masses of unskilled ones who are competing directly with our own unemployed.

 

Non EU countries have various stringent requirements for immigration, skills are part of it in most, many require some level of funds, most require a clean bill of health. None of these apply to immigrants to or country from within the EU.

 

There are a host of issues relating to the immigration system as it stands, general ludicrous restrictions imposed by the EU that we seem to have no power to influence and not insignificant abuse of our health system from foreign nationals of non EU origin. At the end of the day the hard pressed working man is paying through the nose to subsidise this.

 

Sorry if that sounds like a rant but I really have strong feelings, which I'm sure are shared by many others, about how successive weak willed governments have betrayed us!

 

You are correct and not alone in your thoughts and feelings

[aris]

If we get a vote on leaving the EU and a yes vote is returned,

would all EU member migrants lose their jobs?

I can't imagine business leaders would be chuffed about that.

No, but we could kick the scroungers and unemployed out.

[Catweazle]

It's so easy to blame a few immigrants for our problems, especially if you have been brainwashed by tabloid reporting, but the truth is that the money is still being syphoned off by the rich.

 

Have a read of the Financial Times, hardly a leftist rag,:

 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6f219ba8-327d-11e3-91d2-00144feab7de.html#axzz2pBQsT73R

 

 

 

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6f219ba8-327d-11e3-91d2-00144feab7de.html#ixzz2pBS0mFhz

“QE is a policy designed by the rich for the rich,” says Nigel Wilson, chief executive of Legal & General, during a recent panel discussion hosted by think-tank Resolution Foundation.

Because central banks’ actions have had far more of an impact on asset prices than the real economy, the wealthy – who own the bulk of financial assets – have been its chief beneficiaries.

When the Bank of England researched the distributional effects of its bond buying, it noted that the top 5 per cent of households in the UK held 40 per cent of the assets that have been boosted by QE. And the prices of things that rich people buy – prime property, paintings, fine wine, classic cars – have all soared since 2009.

Savers, particularly those reliant on income-generating products such as annuities, have been hammered. Ros Altmann, a pensions expert, accused the BoE of “taking far more money from people’s pensions than Robert Maxwell ever did”.

Additionally, in 2013 HMRC estimated that they failed to collect £35 billion in taxes, basically people and corporations fiddling their taxes.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/tax-gaps/mtg-2013.pdf

 

Even the Daily Mail only claims illegal immigrants cost us £3.7 billion

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2482717/Our-3-7bn-year-illegal-immigrants-health-education.html

 

So, our home grown tax fiddlers are costing nearly 10 times as much as illegal immigration.

[Boromir]

People are moaning about our own lot being to lazy to work? I say again would those people saying that work on the national minimum wage?

As I said earlier the only people that want them here are the ones who want cheap labour to make maximum profits.

If we get a vote on leaving the EU and a yes vote is returned,
would all EU member migrants lose their jobs?
I can't imagine business leaders would be chuffed about that.

Id imagine that they'll keep the jobs but restrict new immigrants coming in.

[Woodbepigeonshooter]

 

I think it was odd that the press were looking at airports when as poor as Bulgaria and Romania is, its people would be able to afford to travelthat way.

 

When I was returning to the uk from Romania about a year ago I passed 6 coaches at 3.30am with people milling around, the taxi driver stated that the coaches leave daily for Europe to everywhere, not the uk then.

 

Population in Romania has gone from 22 million to 19 million, now they can come to the uk where do you think they will be?

 

For no other reason than space and economics we will struggle to make it work with the potential threat of that level of immigration.

[overandunder2012]

dont get excited chaps we wont be leaving europe anytime soon mr rothchild wont like it so it dont matter who you vote for really

[keg]

for the money mate for the money, nice of you to jump in and call the exploitation of a workforce who will accept low wages a product of lazy Brits, naivety at its very very best.

every one of these incomers getting a job below the min wage ensures that a job with a decent wage for a young unemployed person will never come, and we and that means YOU yes you pick up the tab to keep that brit on benefit., rather than in work.

 

KW

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25563222

What do you call a decent wage KW? without stating the obvious, if we pay youngsters more and it makes us uncompetitive no one benefits.

[kdubya]

dont get excited chaps we wont be leaving europe anytime soon mr rothchild wont like it so it dont matter who you vote for really

that's what makes me laugh when I see statements such as "its in the times" they are not exactly on the left? well shock horror the times is owned by a Mr Murdoch and the times supported labour and Blair in particular.

 

KW

Edited January 1, 2014 by kdubya

[kdubya]

What do you call a decent wage KW? without stating the obvious, if we pay youngsters more and it makes us uncompetitive no one benefits.

at least the minimum wage, but my view decent is a min of £10 per hour, thing that gets missed is migrant workers unskilled variety (the vast majority) work for lower than min wages, they wont be paying tax or stamp even the bona fide variety will not pay tax on their first 10k,and god forbid now they will be entitled to tax credits and housing subsidy, and our unemployed on benefit will still be unemployed and on benefit,so we pay out twice rather than once, far cheaper to pay a decent wage to our unskilled workers and get them OFF benefit than allow money in the form of low wages go through a black economy and ultimately out of the country, but that wont suit the real winners and wanters of unfettered migrant workers IE employers will it.

 

KW

Edited January 1, 2014 by kdubya

[henry d]

People are moaning about our own lot being to lazy to work? I say again would those people saying that work on the national minimum wage? .

I'm on minimum wage, however I would be a little hesitant to call all on benefits too lazy, but there are lots here that use the system to their benefit.

As said previously a large majority of the Romanians will naturally go to Spain, the reason being is most immigrants will naturally tend to inhabit an area where others of their kind have settled.

[overandunder2012]

kw summed it all up when he said its all about the money you can bet your life theres a bigger picture going on here somebodys making a packet out of all this somewhere. anyone want to go in on a coach?

Edited January 1, 2014 by overandunder2012

[hawkeye]

I'm on minimum wage, however I would be a little hesitant to call all on benefits too lazy, but there are lots here that use the system to their benefit.

As said previously a large majority of the Romanians will naturally go to Spain, the reason being is most immigrants will naturally tend to inhabit an area where others of their kind have settled.

I would have thought the time you spent as a fireman would have given you a pension better than the minimum wage....

[FalconFN]

at least the minimum wage, but my view decent is a min of £10 per hour, thing that gets missed is migrant workers unskilled variety (the vast majority) work for lower than min wages, they wont be paying tax or stamp even the bona fide variety will not pay tax on their first 10k,and god forbid now they will be entitled to tax credits and housing subsidy, and our unemployed on benefit will still be unemployed and on benefit,so we pay out twice rather than once, far cheaper to pay a decent wage to our unskilled workers and get them OFF benefit than allow money in the form of low wages go through a black economy and ultimately out of the country, but that wont suit the real winners and wanters of unfettered migrant workers IE employers will it.

 

KW

Are the vast majority of migrant workers unskilled? I don't know if any data exists to back that claim up but experience suggests that that is not true. I'm not looking for an argument just interested in the facts.

[digger]

If someone told me I could move abroad, get free healthcare, subsidised housing, full benefits and triple my income then Id be off like a shot. They are not to blame, the stinking system is. While its easy to point the finger and resort to cheap stereotypical "pickpocket" digs, look who opened the door. KW has it right, the damned left are to blame

[subsonicnat]

If they haven't paid into the system for a set number of years they should not get anything at all. Like in America.

 

Figgy

When you retire if any of your stamps are missing your pension gets cut with it inline, So you have to make it ALL up, including the employers contribution.

If you come from abroad, (I Was Told By an MP).. isn`t a Pension, it comes out of DHSS..

I told him we all **** in the same Pot. Right:

[kdubya]

Are the vast majority of migrant workers unskilled? I don't know if any data exists to back that claim up but experience suggests that that is not true. I'm not looking for an argument just interested in the facts.

I take it you have never been to large city or town london for example and stayed in a hotel or got a private hire cab or went for a pint in a pub, or got your car washed? or been to an airport and had a meal or drink,before your flight and noticed the nationalities of those serving you? or do you consider bar staff, chambermaids,waiters and waitresses,car washers, etc etc as skills we cant provide from our unemployed youth?,or do you think these jobs are covered by moonlighting migrant brain surgeons?

 

KW

[FalconFN]

I take it you have never been to large city or town london for example and stayed in a hotel or got a private hire cab or went for a pint in a pub, or got your car washed? or been to an airport and had a meal or drink,before your flight and noticed the nationalities of those serving you? or do you consider bar staff, chambermaids,waiters and waitresses,car washers, etc etc as skills we cant provide from our unemployed youth?,or do you think these jobs are covered by moonlighting migrant brain surgeons?

 

KW

Of course I've not been to a large town or city, they are full of dirty foreigners.

 

I would still like some evidence as there are plenty of doctors, nurses, plumbers, engineers and leaders of industry that are not British born too.

Edited January 2, 2014 by FalconFN

[Psyxologos]

I take it you have never been to large city or town london for example and stayed in a hotel or got a private hire cab or went for a pint in a pub, or got your car washed? or been to an airport and had a meal or drink,before your flight and noticed the nationalities of those serving you? or do you consider bar staff, chambermaids,waiters and waitresses,car washers, etc etc as skills we cant provide from our unemployed youth?,or do you think these jobs are covered by moonlighting migrant brain surgeons?

 

KW

 

Out of curiosity, to what would you ascribe the high percentage of foreign nationals in these jobs you just mentioned? Is it chance? Is it that all these jobs are paying below the minimum/living wage? Is it because foreign nationals are more eager/suited to these jobs, or is it because the chav population of this island prefers to smoke pot, drink white lightning and breed as a means of getting a higher benefit allowance?

[Catweazle]

that's what makes me laugh when I see statements such as "its in the times" they are not exactly on the left? well shock horror the times is owned by a Mr Murdoch and the times supported labour and Blair in particular.

 

KW

I don't know if you're referring to my post, but if you are I quoted the Financial Times, a totally separate paper, not owned by Murdoch, and not connected to The Times at all.

[Andy H]

While working in Romania for 6 week's last year i asked around different people what the monthly income was , One was a fully qualified and time served engineer 360 euro's a month another a full time waitress 220 euro's a month ,A Team leader in a Ford production factory 290 euro's per month , When i told them what the same job's in england should pay the general reaction was to say the least shock at the increase in pay.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Andy H

[keg]

at least the minimum wage, but my view decent is a min of £10 per hour, thing that gets missed is migrant workers unskilled variety (the vast majority) work for lower than min wages, they wont be paying tax or stamp even the bona fide variety will not pay tax on their first 10k,and god forbid now they will be entitled to tax credits and housing subsidy, and our unemployed on benefit will still be unemployed and on benefit,so we pay out twice rather than once, far cheaper to pay a decent wage to our unskilled workers and get them OFF benefit than allow money in the form of low wages go through a black economy and ultimately out of the country, but that wont suit the real winners and wanters of unfettered migrant workers IE employers will it.

 

KW

I can see your logic to a point but you are talking about almost doubling the current minimum wage for an 18-20 yr old. I believe this will be a cost most employers cannot absorb so many things will go up.

 

I agree with Henry D, not all on benefits are lazy, some would love to work butin some areas there simply are no jobs.

[Psyxologos]

fact or fiction?

Edited January 2, 2014 by Psyxologos

[Munzy]

fact or fiction?

Sounds about right. The economic picture for Spain is actually far more positive than this infographic suggests though. Almost all of the money spent by expats in Spain has been generated in the UK and is being spent in Spain. A tiny amount will be being taken out of Spain and spent elsewhere (as we see in the UK).

 

So, British immigrants moving away are costing the UK economy because they aren't spending here but as I see it they aren't claiming money from the UK either. Their pensions are bought and paid for already and if they receive care via the N111 then this is a result of EU membership.

[old rooster]

Out of curiosity, to what would you ascribe the high percentage of foreign nationals in these jobs you just mentioned? Is it chance? Is it that all these jobs are paying below the minimum/living wage? Is it because foreign nationals are more eager/suited to these jobs, or is it because the chav population of this island prefers to smoke pot, drink white lightning and breed as a means of getting a higher benefit allowance?

I think you will find it is because the foreign nationals can't get the rates of pay in their own countries for the jobs they can get here. The only reason the "chav population" can follow the lifestyle you mention is that they've grown up in a country where some people feel they have a god given right to be supported financially by the system even if there are jobs available for them.

 

At the risk of sounding boringly repetitive, we will never turn the situation around until this attitude is changed and the only way to change it is to stop benefits being paid to those for whom work has been found if they refuse to do it.

 

The frightening truth about rates of pay is that most businesses can't afford to pay high wages and compete in a global economy where other countries can get away with very low labour rates. The inevitable outcome is that some people will have to accept a lower standard of living than they currently enjoy at the expense of those who do work. That is a reality that the loony labour party tried to cover up and paid for by running up massive public debt on our behalf.

 

A lot of the problem is caused by allowing the less affluent countries to join the EU, I'm not convinced this was made clear at the outset and whether, if it had been, we would have been so keen to join? The poorer countries joining now, some of them former eastern block will drag the rest down as is seen quite clearly now. Not only do they drag the rest down economically but their basic cultures are often very different to the original core EU countries.

 

Has the EU become an unmanageable super state that the original planners never foresaw? Is it now running out of control and to the detriment of those who conceived the idea? I don't think that is impossible.

Edited January 2, 2014 by old rooster