Which Section 1 to go for.

[chrisjpainter]

I'm getting very close to actually applying for my FAC now. I have permission to shoot over a decent sized farm that is already cleared for centrefires and getting the permission from the land owner is sorted, so the next question is - what of the three listed to go for, which is where some opinions'd be good. I'm looking at getting JUST ONE gun and it will be almost exclusively for rabbits, (with the occasional ground scurrying squirrel and pigeon) and I don't anticipate ever needing to shoot beyond 130yds and the vast majority of the time comfortably sub 100. It's an arable farm with houses not too far away (safely away, but potentially with in ear shot of), and most of my shooting is done at night with NV. opinions very much appreciated, as well as reasons behind them. Many thanks!

 

(right now, I'm leaning towards .22lr, but happy to be re-schooled!)

Edited February 5, 2014 by chrisjpainter

[theshootist]

I would ask for both HMR and .22LR, (you have good reason so why not). If you just want to buy one rifle and need 130 yards then its the HMR.

[Malik]

Although i don't shoot rifles. I have learnt a lot about them from off here... HMR at a guess would be a good choice.

 

.22LR ricochets a bit as well?

[telf]

had hmrs sold them now have .22s more than happy,if your shooting at night you cant beat the .22,i summise if your shooting at night you wont be shooting further than 80yds ish for rabbits as you will be able to get quite close to them in the dark so i woiuld say .22,if you shoot through the day, with practice 120 yds is quite possible with a .22

[Dazza9t9]

I'm I'm a similar position in terms of land and considering going for my FAC.

 

From reading on here and what other shooting friends have said I will be applying doe a .22lr and a .17hmr

 

.22lr for closer shots and I believe they are quiter, plus the fact the ammo is a lot cheaper

Then .17 for longer shots when I am out during the day.

 

I've only shot rifles a couple of times at the target shooting club I have just joined so I am purly basing my decision on what information I have been told and not actual experience

[Muddy Funker]

From what you say your requirements are and only one rifle it has to be .22

 

I did what most seem to and went for 22LR and 17HMR, Sussex condition the 17 for fox also so those 2 rifles cover quite a lot of situations.

[Mentalmac]

Personally, I would apply for .22LR and 17HMR. I only say this as I shoot a FAC air 22 and a 17HMR. Where I did quite a lot of close in shooting, I have driven the rabbits away more and can no longer get in as close so often so use the HMR from a much further distance... (i.e 100 - 150).

 

My biggest worry when I applied was that I would be undergunned and get annoyed. I know you only want one gun, but a second hand good condition .17 with a good scope for around 3-400 and then I have seen some absolute steals on LR's that are barely more than a night out on the town... FAC air guns can be more costly to run.

 

It just seems like if you get a LR then after a while you may need a little more range. The HMR seems noisy when you are next to it, but I shoot about 100 yards away from a house and she says she never really hears me unless I'm throwing loads out

[chrisjpainter]

Excuse an ignorant question, but does it cost any more to apply for both .17HMR and .22lr - even if you don't actually intend to get to guns? The fox question is an interesting one. I was on the farm a few nights ago looking for owls (I'm a bird watcher) and saw four different foxes within the space of 15 mins. There're several chicken, duck and geese keepers bordering the edges of the farm. Anyone know what Thames Valley has to say about 17hmr and foxes?

[kent]

.22 lr as few rabbits need to be shot at 130 and even this can still be done with the .22 though it isn't a skill that comes all of a sudden overnight. The FAC air is a hassle and if you have a good 12ft lb one and a .22 lr you can easy get by without one. HMR is noisy by comparison to either of the other more expensive to feed and not as good for everyday needs on the lamp and stalking the hedges, if you felt the need to get something easier to shoot at longer range get something that also acts as an efficient foxer with less wind than a hmr and more ground between it and the .22 - namely a small centrefire! For the future perhaps? Its not quite like it was ten years and more ago but foxing often lands good permissions for other stuff on your lap and I certainly get more requests for it personally

 

You do right not filling the cabinet with allsorts, most of us who have been through that stage will confirm that you just have a number you hardly ever use. I have owned and used in the field all of the above rifles mentioned btw, I don't really know or understand why someone who hasn't might comment there are a lot of myths in existence that get perpetuated this way

[kent]

Excuse an ignorant question, but does it cost any more to apply for both .17HMR and .22lr - even if you don't actually intend to get to guns? The fox question is an interesting one. I was on the farm a few nights ago looking for owls (I'm a bird watcher) and saw four different foxes within the space of 15 mins. There're several chicken, duck and geese keepers bordering the edges of the farm. Anyone know what Thames Valley has to say about 17hmr and foxes?

Don't go getting a HMR for Fox, it can be used but so can a .22 lr or a shotgun. .22 wmr (the .22 magnum rimfire) has more predictable terminals and something like another 80 ft lb available over it anyhow but go small centrefire no comparison to any rimfire as a fox gun.

With good reason you can apply for anything but most areas will not allow you to keep a slot open if you don't buy in within one full certificate term

[chrisjpainter]

Don't go getting a HMR for Fox, it can be used but so can a .22 lr or a shotgun. .22 wmr (the .22 magnum rimfire) has more predictable terminals and something like another 80 ft lb available over it anyhow but go small centrefire no comparison to any rimfire as a fox gun.

With good reason you can apply for anything but most areas will not allow you to keep a slot open if you don't buy in within one full certificate term

Thanks Kent. That's pretty useful. Another nail in the coffin against getting a 17hmr!

[Brad93]

I'd say get a small centrefire and then you can take foxes no issue. .17 fireball can still take rabbits or maybe even a .22 hornet which you can reload?

[kent]

Thanks Kent. That's pretty useful. Another nail in the coffin against getting a 17hmr!

 

I also think that applying for more than one at a time makes licencing think twice, unless the reason is very clear cut like one for fox one for bunnies. Seen it quite often but it depends on who is applying and to whom

[kyska]

I have a great love for the .22lr, but on my land nearly every shot ended up with them buzzing off into the distance, I'd say 2 out of 10 hmr shots also richoquet, thats the only reason I don't use one.

 

I'm a great fan of HMR, but my WMR gets more work, just personal preference.

[chrisjpainter]

I'd say get a small centrefire and then you can take foxes no issue. .17 fireball can still take rabbits or maybe even a .22 hornet which you can reload?

I don't want a small Centrefire though... I'm quite happy with one of the three. I don't want anything more powerful than .17hmr and I'd be quite content with never shooting a fox in my life if I didn't have a need for it. I don't get out shooting regularly enough to justify having three guns, so having one sitting in a cabinet twiddling its thumbs seems silly. I have a BSA R10 for squirrels and pigeons in and around my wooded perms, this really is for rabbit bashing. It would only be a happy accident to have a gun cleared for foxes. If I tried, I reckon I could easily show need to have a fox calibre gun. But I'm not that bothered, and if I'm not that bothered, why try and show a need?

[bullet boy]

My HMR is my most used rifle.

Its good for Rabbits as long as they are head shot if you want to eat the meat,good for long range Crows,and a decent short range Fox round.

[njc110381]

I'd go for a .22lr and learn to stalk bunnies better! When foxes come into it a small centrefire is the way forward, although with real patience and care you can knock them over with a .22lr close in. If you only want a couple of foxes a year when they show up then there's little point buying two guns.

 

I've never seen the point in FAC air. Just my opinion of course but a .22lr can do the same job and more for less money.

 

I don't rate the HMR. I'd sooner buy a Hornet and home load it. If you think you may be interested in foxing in the mid term, ask for a small centrefire too. There isn't really a limit to what you can ask for and it costs the same for one gun as it does ten, but don't be greedy because they tend not to like it. If your land owner wants foxes dealt with though it's a fair request. A little Hornet will kill foxes to 150 yards easily and shows the FEO that you're being sensible and asking for something on the small side at first.

 

The Savage .17 Hornet is a usable gun for very little money. As long as you haven't filled it it's free to change your requests at a later date if you decide that a slot you have isn't what you really want.

 

Edit... Having read your most recent reply, ignore all but the first thing I said!

Edited February 6, 2014 by njc110381

[Mentalmac]

Personally, I would apply for .22LR and 17HMR. I only say this as I shoot a FAC air 22 and a 17HMR. Where I did quite a lot of close in shooting, I have driven the rabbits away more and can no longer get in as close so often so use the HMR from a much further distance... (i.e 100 - 150).

 

My biggest worry when I applied was that I would be undergunned and get annoyed. I know you only want one gun, but a second hand good condition .17 with a good scope for around 3-400 and then I have seen some absolute steals on LR's that are barely more than a night out on the town... FAC air guns can be more costly to run.

 

It just seems like if you get a LR then after a while you may need a little more range. The HMR seems noisy when you are next to it, but I shoot about 100 yards away from a house and she says she never really hears me unless I'm throwing loads out

As per my previous - .22 lr is great until you need to do more 100-150 than 50-100 yarders.

Think the ultimate thing to think about it how many you will be shooting and how often. The HMR is noisier, and will scare more off - but in my opinion, up to 150 yards a much likelier hit than miss. Yes you can shoot a 22 to over 100, but the likelihood of a hit goes down some.

.22 Lr - cheap to feed and quite accurate, but known for ricochets and harder to shoot with the trajectory when over 100 yards.

.17 - a bit more expensive to shoot, and noisier so scares some more away in daylight, BUT it's a point and shoot pretty much to 150,

Summary - if you want to wonder around with your NV and take 50 rabbits a night every time, but have to stalk in closer get a .22lr. If you want to pop out and get 4or5 rabbits a time but find shooting a bit easier, get a HMR.

[chrisjpainter]

FAC-Air hasn't faired to well! anyone going to stick up for it??

[njc110381]

I wouldn't count on it! There are a few users here who swear by them, but with the low powered .22lr ammo available I really can't see what they have to offer?

 

I know you say that you have no interest in taking foxes, but if the farmer needs it done as a one off the .22lr will do the job for you. FAC air won't.

[Mentalmac]

FAC-Air hasn't faired to well! anyone going to stick up for it??

I have a FAC air, only just because my FEO when at my house said to keep it and 17hmr on my licence. Ended up trading a 12ft lb for a falcon pcp 22 and it puts out around 30ft lb.

Great if you have all the gear like charging equip already. Lots of cash if you don't.

It's got a nice trajectory to shoot out to 60 yards... using a nice heavy pellet and causes some good damage which knocks tasty little rabbits down fine. It's just a bit tedious how much you have to fill them as it throws more air out than a 12ft lb. I get around 15-20 good shots before having to fill up before noticing a change in zero etc... WHEREAS a 22lr will keep on firing without the re-filling.

It's good on the pigeons too. I take mine when roost shooting as sometimes they'll stay put in the tree and worth a shot with that before making lots of noise with the 12g.

My opinion tells me that it's a bit of a novelty and a 22lr much better all rounder, but you can do things with it that a lr can't.

WOuldn't it be nice to have all 3?!

[tjm160]

My HMR was my first and is still my "go to" rabbit rifle. I always intended to add a .22 and will be doing so in due course, for where the considerably quieter .22LR (subsonic) round is more preferable to 100-150yd (HMR) shots, albeit sacrificing a little range (max 100yds).

 

Why not apply for both to keep your options open as has already been said. If you also purchase a Sako Quad, you can readily swap barrels without having to purchase a second rifle. The Quad's are more expensive than e.g. the CZ45X that many favour, but the added quality and flexibility was worth the extra for me.

 

Would also recommend asking for .22RF (rimfire) on your application, as opposed to .22LR (long rifle). This would leave you open as to whether to purchase 22LR or .22WMR. For your use, WMR wouldn't be my preferred choice (but the best of .17 HMR, .22LR and .22WMR for fox) and is far too noisy for a main rabbit gun (a friends WMR was significantly louder than my HMR and would always clear the field - he chopped it in for a .22 LR in the end). However, especially if you do go for a Sako Quad, you could even opt for .17HMR, .22LR and .22WMR barrels (so long as you apply for sufficient extra barrel slots). It is a bit of a pain needing to change zero or scopes for the different barrels, but is a cost effective solution for having additional calibres without having separate rifles/scopes for each.

Edited February 6, 2014 by tjm160

[Fisheruk]

From what you say I would definitely stick with 22lr.

Don't forget the moderator on your application.

[Imperfection]

22lr

 

Ammo is cheap,rifles can be bought for peanuts and they're really quiet.

[kent]

FAC-Air hasn't faired to well! anyone going to stick up for it??

To tell you a story;

 

I still have mine on my ticket but a mate has ownership of it. He was thrilled to get a chance to buy it as he then recently gained his FAC from graduating from 12 ft lb and has a bit of nice rabbiting ground. Although he got his LR first, subsequently it hardly goes out MK1 rapid 30 ft lb .22, I don't miss it it was fun to play with a while and served a purpose on about two special occasions.

If you come from std airguns they appear to be all you need right up to the point you actually get out use the LR, there is a very good reason they are the most popular gun on the planet for small game and vermin and must have been for 100 years.

He like you doesn't want another gun and his effective range is creeping up each time I shoot with him, eventually he will listen to me and buy a decent smaller scope as for all his laser rangefinders and Christmas tree reticules he still can only about half my range, why does all technology get smaller except scopes