teddy boy Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I like Scotland and the scots. I would hate to see them leave the union, and urge them all not to be swayed by slick talk. but in the end it comes down to what the individual wants for their country. but out means OUT, no half measures I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AULD YIN Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Does that include the £45bn to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland? £45bn to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland was a taxpayer bailout.,,as far as i am aware the scots are taxpayers as well. johnnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 No it does not. Neither does it include the £289bn that Westminster and previous non-Scottish voted governments spent on the Falklands, Iraq and Afghanistan. The point is, Westminster has lied to the people of Scotland for years (and it seems to the entire UK!) about fiscal matters and their reasons for abject political failure. That includes useless Scottish politicians Blair, Brown et al They were not non-Scottish governments. They were British governments of which Scotland was an equal, willing and democratically represented member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 £45bn to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland was a taxpayer bailout.,,as far as i am aware the scots are taxpayers as well. johnnie seeing as how jockland makes up less than 10% of the UK population English being around 85% RBS did OK really. now please say thank-you very much you hardworking English taxpayers KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 £45bn to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland was a taxpayer bailout.,,as far as i am aware the scots are taxpayers as well. johnnie Quite correct - the tax payers of the entire United Kingdom paid to bail out a Scottish bank. That's what being in a union means - you help each other in good times and in bad times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 ...just when I thought we were starting to get somewhere with this topic along comes KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheasant Plucker Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 You obviously sound very hard done by. I hope you get your YES vote. Not really, the jury is still out on the Yes/No vote - the point of this thread is that most of the venom coming from south of the border (as to why the Scots have never had it so good) is based upon half truths from Westminster and a balance should be struck. The truth will out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 seeing as how jockland makes up less than 10% of the UK population English being around 85% RBS did OK really. now please say thank-you very much you hardworking English taxpayers KW As I remember it the RBS mostly lent money to bad payers in America along with anyone else they could, as did most banks. why they were bailed out escapes me I dont remember the debts being all Scottish, I understood that they were bailed out to keep the pound buoyant by the British government and the bank of England however if thanks are due then thanks to everyone in Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Can some one tell me how this happens if they get there independence on the Monday where does the money come from to pay all the civil servants police ,fire,nurses unemployment benefit,old age pension housing benefit along with all the other bills If they want independence let's build the wall back they can have the euro and a massive loan which they will never be able to pay back The 2 best things to come out of Scotland is Whisky and the A74 south Deershooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Can some one tell me how this happens if they get there independence on the Monday where does the money come from to pay all the civil servants police ,fire,nurses unemployment benefit,old age pension housing benefit along with all the other bills If they want independence let's build the wall back they can have the euro and a massive loan which they will never be able to pay back The 2 best things to come out of Scotland is Whisky and the A74 south Deershooter Thanks for that. If by the wall do you mean Hadrians then that lies within England, are you happy that the Northerners of England should also be independent as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 ...just when I thought we were starting to get somewhere with this topic along comes KW nothing personal I lived in Peterhead for a few years and my second daughter was born there, some nice people but god some real twitter and bisteds especially as when I lived there ally's tartan army were going to win the world cup :lol: KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sian Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) I would like to see Scotland stay in the Union. I believe we are stronger as a whole rather than separate entities. I state that I am British as quite frankly parts of me are Irish, Scottish and English and no doubt there are other bits of me from other places if you delve back far enough. Quite frankly if I was made to choose with a gun to my head what I should be and had choose one of the nations I would choose Wales - that is where I grew up and the place I think of as home but as far as I know unless its way back, I don't have any Welsh in me. There are very few who can call themselves pure English, pure Scottish etc etc. Anyway that's what I feel. Forgot to actually answer the original question - if they become independent then I think they should not keep the pound. Edited February 14, 2014 by Sian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) nothing personal I lived in Peterhead for a few years and my second daughter was born there, some nice people but god some real twitter and bisteds especially as when I lived there ally's tartan army were going to win the world cup :lol: KW At least we learned from that embarrassment,england think their gonna win it everytime. Edited February 14, 2014 by mr smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I am wondering what will happen if the Yes vote wins but a couple of years down the road the reality does not match the promises. Will there be a campaign to rejoin......just a thought and it could happen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I am surprised that some posts suggest this 'vitriol' comes mainly from south of the border. Is it not true that in Glasgow for example, being English is as bad as being an ethnic minority must be? This from friends experience of being abused by Scots 'colleagues' The Scots or a significant minority/majority seem to enjoy abusing the English and, despite not wishing to lose the Scots, the English are absolutely fed up of the ' were going to be a lot better off without the English' - so much for equal partners for 300 years, still its nice to know how the Scottish allow themselves to be portrayed Not all Scots are jingoists but after years of moaning about the 'auld enemy' we all get a bit 'irritated'. To expect to keep the pound is a little like insurance - in case it all goes wrong, and after what has gone before and is going on now - a bit of a bloody cheek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) I see some cut and pastes of the yes campaign statistics are being posted, but they are interpretations of statistical data portrayed in a way that benefits the yes campaign. There is undoubtably some measure of truth in what is being said, albeit they are at the absolute top of the favourable end of the estimates and assumptions, but this information is being pumped as absolute fact and it is simply not true. And the argument that Westminster committed the UK to expenditure such as the Falklands, Iraq, Bank Bailouts, etc is completely disingenuous. If you consider population density and the number of eligible voters Scotland is actually proportionately represented slightly more favourably in Westminster by MP's/head of population than England is. I absolutely hate that we have some cynical and manipulative, self serving, egotistical fools that are seeking to manipulate the ordinary citizens of Scotland to suit their own ends. It makes me incredibly angry. Scotland could survive as an independent nation, but at the expense of both the people of Scotland and the rest of the UK, it saddens me deeply that this campaign is based more on 'because we can' rather than 'because it is better to' The really galling thing is that one of the biggest arguments put forward is supporting an increase of the welfare state, the whole cynical campaign is aimed at improving the lot of those who already benefit from the state by increasing welfare payments. If the campaign focussed on how less administration and state overheads could allow everyone to contribute to a greater society then i would vote yes in a heartbeat. Edited February 14, 2014 by grrclark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 As I remember it the RBS mostly lent money to bad payers in America along with anyone else they could, as did most banks. why they were bailed out escapes me I dont remember the debts being all Scottish, I understood that they were bailed out to keep the pound buoyant by the British government and the bank of England however if thanks are due then thanks to everyone in Britain. Most of the money RBS lost was from commercial and household lending in the UK and Ireland. Not the US and actually not from Investment Banking (which is what most people assume). They were bailed out to protect the whole UK and global economy. Nobody really knows what would have happened if they had been allowed to go under as nothing of that size and scale had been seen before. It would have probably resulted in anarchy and rioting on the streets. One assumes that if Scotland gains independence then they will create their own Banking regulator and RBS will obtain a Scottish Banking licence. I also assume that they would retain a UK Banking licence for banking undertaken in the UK (effectively RBS UK would be a Branch of RBS Scotland) with separate capital requirements. I've been trying to work out how the split would work across the financial industry, including how much Scotland should pay for the debts of one of its Banks, but I'm struggling to get my head around it to be honest. The other thing to remember is that it is predicted that a lot of companies would relocate from Scotland to the UK should Scotland gain independence and so the calculations on future Scottish tax revenues would be skewed. As I said before the Scots seem to believe that Scotland can thrive post independence. So it seems a no brainer to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Panic over......new currency sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Most of the money RBS lost was from commercial and household lending in the UK and Ireland. Not the US and actually not from Investment Banking (which is what most people assume). They were bailed out to protect the whole UK and global economy. Nobody really knows what would have happened if they had been allowed to go under as nothing of that size and scale had been seen before. It would have probably resulted in anarchy and rioting on the streets. One assumes that if Scotland gains independence then they will create their own Banking regulator and RBS will obtain a Scottish Banking licence. I also assume that they would retain a UK Banking licence for banking undertaken in the UK (effectively RBS UK would be a Branch of RBS Scotland) with separate capital requirements. I've been trying to work out how the split would work across the financial industry, including how much Scotland should pay for the debts of one of its Banks, but I'm struggling to get my head around it to be honest. The other thing to remember is that it is predicted that a lot of companies would relocate from Scotland to the UK should Scotland gain independence and so the calculations on future Scottish tax revenues would be skewed. As I said before the Scots seem to believe that Scotland can thrive post independence. So it seems a no brainer to me. Thanks for putting it straight, Iv'e never understood why the Scots owed the rest of Britain for the RBS mistakes, I think most people thought RBS should be left to their own devices, you clearly know what your talking about fiscally when you say it seems like a no brainer to you believe this or do you think independence would be the wrong thing financially. I don't think you should assume everyone thinks independence is the best thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Nonsense. The majority of Scots voted for other parties, or didn't vote. The same as in UK general elections. That's why, at present, the majority of Scots don't want to leave the UK What, there was a coup? The SNP didn't win a majority of the seats and control the Toytown Parliament? I know proportional representation is a tricky concept to grasp, but the SNP do seem to be calling the shots. Don't split hairs - the SNP won a majority and you can all suffer the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Meow, lots of catty comments. My only concern is what's gonna happen to me Sky tv - it's based in Livingstone and if they won't accept my pounds & pennies then how am I going to watch Pawn Stars?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Panic over......new currency sorted. I had better trademark that name before Salmond pinches it! 'Twas my idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Sorry to bring this up again, i for one am a bit tired of it but can i urge those that live in Scotland and any one else who has an interest to have a look at www.wealthy nation.org that laird lugton and gimlet suggested earlier in the thread I have finally got around to looking at it and it is quite refreshing to see some information on a subject that is very important to all who live in Scotland indeed important to those that have yet to be born. I'm not suggesting that their views are right just that it is a viewpoint on a question, that information for is in short supply, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I am a significant net contributor, I am Scottish and not employed in public service and absolutely believe that the UK should remain intact. There undoubtably is a huge amount of misinformation being peddled on both sides of the debate and getting to any absolute fact or truth I suspect is damn near impossible. Certainly just now the nationalists would have you believe that at least for the last 30 years Scotland has been a net contributor, if you assume that the taxation realised from oil and gas was allocated to Scotland. At the same time the Barnett formula does indeed give a pro-rated greater percentage of central funding per head of capita than elsewhere in the UK. The Barnett formula leads to the common opinion south of the border that Scotland is funded by England. In terms of Scottish industry that is a net contributor, that would include tourism, whisky, agriculture, power, defence industries (non nationalised), pharmaceuticals, bio research, finance, technology, etc, etc. Scotland is not a rural backwater that needs to be tethered to England to survive, if there is a vote for independence it will not implode or become some 3rd world nation, but I believe that Scotland and the rest of the UK is better served by continuing with the union. As for currency, again there is a great deal of misinformation, but i happen to agree that fiscal union without political union is fraught with danger and neither party would be best served by a continued Scottish reliance on the pound yet both would be hurt should Scotland adopt an alternate currency. I think the simple truth is if we were to join the EU as an independent sovereign state then we would need to adopt the Euro as a condition of membership. As for some of the comments on this thread I think many of you do England a great disservice with the level of ignorance, bigotry and stupidity that you demonstrate. Fortunately they seem to be in the minority and no doubt this type of thread brings the more opinionated ones out the shadows to spew their bile. I am pleased that despite some comments alluding to the contrary the vast majority of the English people I know are very different to the vocal minority on here. English bigotry, Oh how I laughed at that. I wonder how much SCOTTISH investment created the gas and oilfields not to mention the other industries you mention. From a personal point of view I think the union should remain intact but think the english have done themselves no favours by allowing any discussion on devolution. This said if any of the dependencies want out, then let them but that means completely out, no picking and choosing which bits to keeo. Rant over No its not. Just the point I was making, uneducated bile. Where do the oilfields lie ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Not really, the jury is still out on the Yes/No vote - the point of this thread is that most of the venom coming from south of the border (as to why the Scots have never had it so good) is based upon half truths from Westminster and a balance should be struck. The truth will out. Is it a half truth that English students have to pay tuition fees in Scottish universities but Scottish and EU students are accepted for free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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