Cosd Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 I've never patterned any of my guns and decided I want to do this now. I understand the principle but can someone explain the complete process please? If you were to do this properly would you be looking at doing the test through all your chokes and using different cartridges? How do you take the shot? Is it mount and shoot, or do you simply aim and shoot like a rifle? How many shots, what distances, etc etc.... Loads of queations I know, but barring taking an educated guess I don't know the correct and most effective process. Thanks Cos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 What are you patterning the gun for fit, choke/load regulation? If you just want to see what choke your chokes really are with a certain cartridge just shoot it like a rifle then superimpose the circle over the top. I do that 5 times to get the average choke. For gun fit you must not rifle the shot stand back and have a point to shoot at. Look at the object mount and shoot. For fit cartridge and choke are less important but I like to use 1/2 choke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 What are you patterning the gun for fit, choke/load regulation? If you just want to see what choke your chokes really are with a certain cartridge just shoot it like a rifle then superimpose the circle over the top. I do that 5 times to get the average choke. For gun fit you must not rifle the shot stand back and have a point to shoot at. Look at the object mount and shoot. For fit cartridge and choke are less important but I like to use 1/2 choke. +1.Use the chokes you normally use...most folk are surprised/disappointed by this exercise!..30metres for patterning remember you are squeezing a 3d reality into a 2d image,an average of a fw will be more informative than a single pattern.also use your normal cartridge.Apply the 30 inch circle afterward(thats a 15inch bit of string with a pin and a pen)!..My usual conclusion is there is no conclusion!!..have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted April 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 What are you patterning the gun for fit, choke/load regulation? If you just want to see what choke your chokes really are with a certain cartridge just shoot it like a rifle then superimpose the circle over the top. I do that 5 times to get the average choke. For gun fit you must not rifle the shot stand back and have a point to shoot at. Look at the object mount and shoot. For fit cartridge and choke are less important but I like to use 1/2 choke. I am patterning for fit and an understanding of choke/load combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 i think 16 yards is more usable for poi / poa exercise. i have patterned alot of subsonics. just because i had the shells to burn. i aimed at a central point, and quadrants. for pattern. i used whitewash on a steel plate. i could not be more happy. i did single shots at 16yards to calculate poi differences. after that the different shells were used. and looked at. i learned this, slow shells pattern great, fast ones not so good. slow shells are choke insensitive.(respond less to choking) fast shells respond to choking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 I am patterning for fit and an understanding of choke/load combination. Do the latter well aimed, even supported perhaps. The former by look, mount shoot in one motion. choose a day with little no wind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 I've never patterned any of my guns and decided I want to do this now. I understand the principle but can someone explain the complete process please? If you were to do this properly would you be looking at doing the test through all your chokes and using different cartridges? How do you take the shot? Is it mount and shoot, or do you simply aim and shoot like a rifle? How many shots, what distances, etc etc.... Loads of queations I know, but barring taking an educated guess I don't know the correct and most effective process. Thanks Cos We just keep it simple with old paper spud sacks as they have a couple of layers so you get a few sheets out of one sack. I have use old wall paper and taped it together. A couple of frames with nails on and have them shoulder height so you just point the gun level at a mark in the centre. ( I did cut an old full bodied decoy once and traced around that) What I look for is holes in the pattern, you will see them it is just getting the balance with the choke and round. As said it is 2d but a quick and easy way to see what is going on. You can vary the distance but I use 25/30 yards as a gauge, it is not an exact science but quite easy to note the difference between cyl and full choke on 2 sheets of paper. No slide rules were hurt in the making of this post.... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 Sorry yes for fit pattern at 16 yards make the adjustments maths easier. For pattern use your normal range ie 20 30 40 yards or George Digweed 100 yards you may be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPJA Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Been using this site recently, will give you a good idea of patterns from different guns with different shells.http://www.shotgunpattern.net And you can upload your pattern tests for other to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I've never patterned any of my guns and decided I want to do this now. I understand the principle but can someone explain the complete process please? If you were to do this properly would you be looking at doing the test through all your chokes and using different cartridges? How do you take the shot? Is it mount and shoot, or do you simply aim and shoot like a rifle? How many shots, what distances, etc etc.... Loads of queations I know, but barring taking an educated guess I don't know the correct and most effective process. Thanks Cos Cos Come down to the A1 we have a pattern plate and pattern boards . It is interesting and we will help you through it. A little warning the pattern boards are only 1 metre square and 30 yards away, if you think you can hit it then there is something we can do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Theres a couple of good BASC pdfs on pattening and chokes etc .... goog "BASC shotgun patterns.." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayano3 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Cosd how many years have you been shooting and not patterned you gun ? why bother now. Be a waste of time for me I feel as I change cartridges and only really use one choke. I just get out and enjoy my shooting without all the science behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) There is some point to home, amateur patterning, though not as much as we might hope for. On the practical side, I have used cut-up rolls of cheap embossed wallpaper from B and Q, mounted on a wooden skeleton frame, quite effectively. One thing I proved - at least to my satisfaction - was that the Muller chokes I had invested in more or less lived up to their advertised promise and provided fairly even patterns without too much of a hot centre. Plenty of fun to be had in counting the holes! Of course it helps to know how many pellets there are or are supposed to be in any given cartridge. The Hull website used to be very helpful in this respect. Edited April 12, 2014 by Cumbrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastair0903 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Just cartridges have a handy pellet calculator on their app , just to give a rough idea of pellets per cartridge . After reading Cumbrians post I will have to get round to patterning my mullers , especially with the larger shot sizes that they are not really recommended for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 There is some point to home, amateur patterning, though not as much as we might hope for. On the practical side, I have used cut-up rolls of cheap embossed wallpaper from B and Q, mounted on a wooden skeleton frame, quite effectively. One thing I proved - at least to my satisfaction - was that the Muller chokes I had invested in more or less lived up to their advertised promise and provided fairly even patterns without too much of a hot centre. Plenty of fun to be had in counting the holes! Of course it helps to know how many pellets there are or are supposed to be in any given cartridge. The Hull website used to be very helpful in this respect. I have no hands on with the muller choke, it surprises most what difference a change of choke tube can make even it they are both marked as the same constriction the same can be said of shells one might think two factory 30 grm no.6 plas wad might perform the same but they often dont and its not fair to say they will replicate their performance preference in another similar gun. One thing that I have found is some steel factory shells suffer a lot of issues of retained pellets in the shotcup, I am sure this leads to those freaky misses when you cannot believe you missed. I wont say brand because its meaningless as it could be a batch error or particular to that gun but as many as 1 in 4 is not uncommon and this can be altered by a different choke switching from factory to aftermarket and vice versa I am sure. To my mind now buying a slab of shells say without testing a box under various chokes and ranges is as much a non starter as going out without any confidence a rifle is zeroed or will shoot worth a jot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 If the gun you are going to pattern is an O/U then check to make sure you are holding the gun with barrels perpendicular to the ground . Many people without realising cant their guns , this will result in the bottom barrel in particular not shooting to the theoretical point of aim . Also bear in mind that most O/Us will shoot high of aim bottom and fairly flat t.op Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eredel Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Working in a cardboard manufacturing company does have its advantages.....the white board is brilliant for the job and also ideal for my pistol targets!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 If the gun you are going to pattern is an O/U then check to make sure you are holding the gun with barrels perpendicular to the ground . Many people without realising cant their guns , this will result in the bottom barrel in particular not shooting to the theoretical point of aim . Also bear in mind that most O/Us will shoot high of aim bottom and fairly flat t.op Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 If you cant or twist the the gun into your face then the barrels are out of alignment with the "sighting plane ", in effect the bottom barrel will be to the right of the top for a right handed shooter . Top barrel normally shoots "flatter " is because of the way barrels are made and when patterning you tend to "sight" rather than point and shoot , this exaggerates the difference . This is based on tests done with internally mounted lasers to determine barrel alignments and convergences using over 10 makes of O/U . Side by sides tend to shoot high [of theoretical Point of aim ] and the cross over point was between 12' and 18'fom the muzzle . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Patterning a shotgun for the reasons Cosd states for wishing to do so gives the single best advantage when shooting - confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 If you cant or twist the the gun into your face then the barrels are out of alignment with the "sighting plane ", in effect the bottom barrel will be to the right of the top for a right handed shooter . Top barrel normally shoots "flatter " is because of the way barrels are made and when patterning you tend to "sight" rather than point and shoot , this exaggerates the difference . This is based on tests done with internally mounted lasers to determine barrel alignments and convergences using over 10 makes of O/U . Side by sides tend to shoot high [of theoretical Point of aim ] and the cross over point was between 12' and 18'fom the muzzle . the height thing is more to do with stock fit surely? I have only owned two o/u I only ever found they shot higher than any sxs I have owned. Your saying the bottom tube is angled up hence it shoots high right? What is the usual angle of incline over the top tube out of intrest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Strange you should say that... One thing that I have found is some steel factory shells suffer a lot of issues of retained pellets in the shotcup, I am sure this leads to those freaky misses when you cannot believe you missed. I wont say brand because its meaningless as it could be a batch error or particular to that gun but as many as 1 in 4 is not uncommon and this can be altered by a different choke switching from factory to aftermarket and vice versa I am sure. This is a Canada I shot on the first day, there were pellets in the game bag and on boning out I found the wad inside with some shot in it. The wad had turned round and entered the bird wrong way round. Needless to say it dropped like a stone. Solway steel 3" No.1`s. Edited April 13, 2014 by henry d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 My observations are based on some tests we did a while back using internal lasers to check the alignment, convergence and parallel of shotgun barrels ,primarily to ensure that sleeved barrels were correctly set up . Our experiments and tests over a wide range of gun barrels were enlightening to say the least . Setting up the barrels in a jig and sighting along the top rib to align the barrel with a spot on a board at 25 yards we found that in general most O/Us centred bottom 6" to 12" high of centre and top barrels tended to be reasonably on centre ,one reason some makers fit very high ribs so as to split the difference . Side by side barrels tended to shoot slightly high with the right barrel shooting left of the centre and vice versa .This is all to do with the way the barrels are manufactured . You can work it out mathematically if you like and even work out exactly what centres and rib high you will need to make both barrels shoot to overlapping patterns at a set distance .They need wide centres at the muzzle . Our tests did not take into account ballistics so again there is a variable to consider. A shotgun shoots to a point , its up to the user to learn where that is and take this into consideration when calculating lead .All patterning will do is to show how much shot will hit a set circle at a set distance and possibly show you where the gun shoots relevant to your view point . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 All patterning will do is to show how much shot will hit a set circle at a set distance and possibly show you where the gun shoots relevant to your view point . You say, "All", is there any useful purpose that serves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Non at all in my opinion . Unless you are loading your own cartridges so you can see whether you loads are suitable for the gun you want to shoot them in . Edited April 13, 2014 by Gunman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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