TIDES EDGE Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Barls2-9-12 post came out a bit of a jumble with Stalker Boys Quotes but I think I got what he was on about. As a fellow KWAC member I would say I do care about other fowlers but as I understand it Thornham could have gone to a private Syndicate and been lost to just a few individuals so unless you were one of them you lost the shooting. Brancaster as Barls said is all ready split up to all sorts of people so what is the difference of us having one gun. With regards to how would I feel if I lost my favorite marsh to someone else , Yes of course I would be gutted but if I could get membership of that club I would do so without hesitation. As to KWCA not being good value , I only shoot one marsh , shot it 10 times last season so £242 - £59 BASC = £183 it there fore cost me £18.30p per trip if that isnt good value well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Barls. I agree with most of your comments. Now I'm in know was blaming you. But the sad fact Thornham is in general when Kent started shooting there the added Shooting pressure drove the Pinks away yes they still use the Marsh but not in the numbers they did or as regular. Brancaster it's all been said why there's hardly any Geese there now. I agree ONE more Experienced fowler ain't gonna matter a Jot but that leads me to value for money Brancaster 1 ticket available for say 50 keen they will struggle for a Ticket. Now being honest IMHO ANY Club who offers Day Tickets should make provisions for BASC Members to get these any eg experienced members willing to take them out and NOT having to rely on them knowing a Club Member as I see this as a Guest Ticket !!!!! Does that make sense !!!!! Tides Edge on your 10 day principles SORRY no I don't think it value Why !!!!! My 10 days will cost me £5.00 per day also I know plenty of Clubs if I had used Day Tickets it will be £7.50 But everybody views value different as I took a Fowler for his First Pink which he achieved along with a R/L and it was under the Moon now he valued this at £200 NO I didn't accept his generous offer well only a Bottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNT Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 I was contacted at first by several wildfowlers ( including a number of members off this forum ) that your club had been in contact Officially or unofficially with a N Norfolk landowner who already has a club shooting its ground. Informing the clubs officers that was later confirmed with the landowner. Given the way your clubs track record in operating the Wide Spaces Fund into fooling people into thinking they are donating money for conservation when it is in part used to bid for shooting rights I know who I believe. Anser, whether you believe me or not is becoming less of a concern to me with every day that passes, we are continuing to get many messages of support from all areas of the Country. But in the interest of fairness and transparency here is the information to refute your claim. We have made enquiries about three areas of land in Norfolk: Thornham, Salthouse and Snettisham, all offered on the open market. We were successful with Thornham, made a substantial bid for Snettisham (after discussions with the local club) but the land was taken off the market, and we did not bid for Salthouse. Salthouse was eventually lost to shooting for ever. During this period what did you and others in the area do? All three could have been lost to shooting if left to some locals! We were offered Rights in Common at CL65 which we have purchased. In Cambridgeshire we have made enquiries for 6 areas: four of which were on the open market, two offered to us privately. Of those we have acquired four. We have also discussed two other areas on the open market with local clubs and have stood aside to allow them a free run. The truth of the matter is we work with others when they ask. We bid for land if it is on the open market, or if it is offered to us. We have not bid for land held by other clubs. On the point of misleading people about where their money goes, I suggest you pay a visit to Kent and see the work that has been carried out on several sites. This work has cost thousands of pounds and has bought areas neglected for years under earlier stewardships back into favourable conditions and preserved these wonderful wild places. What have you and others been doing all this time ( apart from shoot geese I mean)? We have formed a company praised for its conservation work carried out in a very short space of time and been accepted by the Charity Commission to continue with the work in a much stronger position than ever. You on the other hand make accusations (unsubstantiated) about the clubs approaches to others and worst accuse us of near fraud. If I may be so bold may I suggest you are very careful with your unsubstantiated accusations. We at KWCA take our good name and reputation very seriously, and before others start jumping to your defence with shouts of more legal threats from KWCA , let me make it very clear, it is meant to be friendly advice which I trust you will take. We at KWCA have done everything in our power to explain our position, why we do things the way we do and our vision for the future. I said earlier that the messages of support continue to come in and membership continues to grow. On that basis we have decided to take no further part in this thread and I ask all KWCA members involved to do the same. To those of you who have supported us on the Forum or privately, I say thank you. To everybody else I hope you now better understand our thinking and position, and as I have also said before, we're happy for history to judge our actions and the fact that under our watch there will always be somewhere for people to join and have access to shooting and we will fight to keep land away from the protectionist with every last penny available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Barls2-9-12 post came out a bit of a jumble with Stalker Boys Quotes but I think I got what he was on about. As a fellow KWAC member I would say I do care about other fowlers but as I understand it Thornham could have gone to a private Syndicate and been lost to just a few individuals so unless you were one of them you lost the shooting. Brancaster as Barls said is all ready split up to all sorts of people so what is the difference of us having one gun. With regards to how would I feel if I lost my favorite marsh to someone else , Yes of course I would be gutted but if I could get membership of that club I would do so without hesitation. As to KWCA not being good value , I only shoot one marsh , shot it 10 times last season so £242 - £59 BASC = £183 it there fore cost me £18.30p per trip if that isnt good value well! It may be good value in your eyes at " London prices " those 10 trips would have cost you £3 each if you were shooting my local marsh , so where would the "value" be of Kent grabbing it ?? the fact that they have lots of other shooting which I do not want to travel to , like yourself ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Well put Fen boy. As for Snettisham it was on the Open market for offers in excess of £1.5 million. Wonderful thing the Internet/Web at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) DNT. Quote “During this period what did you and others in the area do? All three could have been lost to shooting if left to some locals!” Thornham was never is serous threat from loss of shooting . If Kent WA had not got it shooting would have continued under the control of a group of wildfowlers or in agreement between local wildfowlers and RSPB , though the latter never made a serious bid for the ground as its well down their priorities . Salthouse went for a huge amount of money ( well over a million ) which no local group of local wildfowlers or clubs even think of matching , its doubtful if any club in the country could raise such money without bringing the clubs finances into danger. Even for your club paying £2000 per member for a limited number to shoot on a restricted amount of land makes little sense. I am not sure about the Snettisham position , but as you say it was taken off the market and shooting may be reinstated in the future. At two of the sites local clubs showed interest but to ask any club to come up over a million pounds makes little sense at Salthouse. Quote “On the point of misleading people about where their money goes, I suggest you pay a visit to Kent and see the work that has been carried out on several sites. “ In which case show me on the Website where there is there any of the information that part of the donations are used to secure shooting rights? I have little doubt that very good conservation work is done with part of the donations and congratulations for the work well done , but if you wish to ask the public for money you should state what you are going to use it for . If your club stuck to shooting in your own local area it would hold the respect and support of every wildfowler and club in the country , but when start to encrouch on shooting of others its a very different story. Edited August 31, 2014 by anser2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobshooting Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Just in the interests of completeness, concerning Thornham. Thornham Wildfowlers/Common Rights Owners, Locals if you'll forgive an overused Word,after a 3 year odd battle, have just won back some of what was taken. We share the Marsh with Kent, subject to NEs new rules, both Clubs now using the ''Day/Area Permit'' System. Hopefully this marks the end of hostilities, no-one has won totally, that's more usual than not in the country that invented compromise. I hate it, before Kent arrived I used to go when I liked, where I liked, but that's gone, pragmatism, I'll take what I can get. I don't know why things had to come to this; surely compromise could have been found 3 years ago. I'm sure there were faults on both sides. I do know if Wildfowlers don't stick together, we'll all be Right Royally ****** by the opposition. Lastly, RSPB, anser2 is right, they were happy with things as they were, locally,(that word again), they're okay blokes, honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNT Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Despite posting what was to be my last post on this thread this morning, I have been asked by both the owner and the KWCA Committee to remind everyone that only KWCA members and the 6 Common Rights Holders have permission to shoot on Thornham Marshes. Anybody else out there with a gun will be deemed to be committing armed trespass and the owner has stated he will prosecute. Good luck to you all tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Despite posting what was to be my last post on this thread this morning, I have been asked by both the owner and the KWCA Committee to remind everyone that only KWCA members and the 6 Common Rights Holders have permission to shoot on Thornham Marshes. Anybody else out there with a gun will be deemed to be committing armed trespass and the owner has stated he will prosecute. Good luck to you all tomorrow. So are you telling us that bob is not telling the truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobshooting Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 So are you telling us that bob is not telling the truth? That seems to be the trend of his post, doesn't it? I've just got off the 'phone with the consultant, he's adamant that we're legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 That seems to be the trend of his post, doesn't it? I've just got off the 'phone with the consultant, he's adamant that we're legal. Get it in writing before you step foot on the marsh Bob. I wouldnt trust Kent one bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobshooting Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Get it in writing before you step foot on the marsh Bob. I wouldnt trust Kent one bit! Armed trespass.....and me a Magistrate.....there must be an answer to all this that doesn't involve a culprit. I probably wouldn't get a shot anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono 4 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Surely the best way Bob would be for a Thornham common rights holder to vest their right in the original local club? Kent have proved its legal with their actions at Brancaster, moral no but Legal yes, after all what's good for the goose, would like to see the cattle gate right holders make a prosecution, after all they offered the lease not Mr Betts. DNT you may have been offered rights on CL65, but you could always have said no from a moral perspective, now your actions have opened up the can of worms whereby more clubs are looking at buying rights, thus further increasing the numbers shooting the marsh, the cl65 rights were never intended to add another club, kent Wildfowlers will shoot the marsh I suspect more times in a season than I have in the last 9, approximately 65 flights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobshooting Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Surely the best way Bob would be for a Thornham common rights holder to vest their right in the original local club? Kent have proved its legal with their actions at Brancaster, moral no but Legal yes, after all what's good for the goose, would like to see the cattle gate right holders make a prosecution, after all they offered the lease not Mr Betts. DNT you may have been offered rights on CL65, but you could always have said no from a moral perspective, now your actions have opened up the can of worms whereby more clubs are looking at buying rights, thus further increasing the numbers shooting the marsh, the cl65 rights were never intended to add another club, kent Wildfowlers will shoot the marsh I suspect more times in a season than I have in the last 9, approximately 65 flights They have vested their rights, in the same way Kent have done, at least, that's my understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono 4 Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Good for your club Bob, at least they will have the shooting they once had, on the plus side they are not paying the rumoured £15k a year for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Not wanting to start any more arguements but did anything get sorted about this? Was there any detrimental effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal mud hopper Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 hi new to this site but active on others just a couple of comments kent wildfowlers have a quarter of a right which they exercise as for a club charity holding such right I reserve my judgement as for the pinks not showing as much I do not think over shooting is the problem yes some will try to shoot them out of range goose fever is a thing that I have now and again but what I think is the reason for not as many pinks is they have moved to different areas (over shooting out of range shooting disturbance I hear the cry) may be not my opinion is when the last government under mr blair was in power some people were shouting about sugar mountain and they cut sugar production so the farmers are not growing it so now as a country we import sugar from third world countries to help them (cane sugar) talk about food miles work that out so the farmers are now having to grow other crops OIL SEED RAPE just look how the country has turned yellow good for pigeon shooting well may be so much food now they are getting hard to decoy all the time so I digress so not so much sugar beet so no beet top for them to feed on they now travel a long way to feed on what beet top is left not ploughed in while out on the marsh you can watch huge flights of pink very high and as they near the coast you see them split in to 4 or 5 groups still a lot in each group fly to different roosts around the coast and this is why we are not seeing so many as some have found new roosts (yes I know shooting pressure disturbance ect) but I don't think this the only reason they are having to look for their favourite food and move to find it still that's my opinion might not be every body's but I had to say this cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 There'll be even less sugar beet with the drop in price, £24 a ton I believe I heard quoted on Radio 4's Farming Today a couple of weeks ago from a North Norfolk farmer who they were interviewing. hi new to this site but active on others just a couple of comments kent wildfowlers have a quarter of a right which they exercise as for a club charity holding such right I reserve my judgement as for the pinks not showing as much I do not think over shooting is the problem yes some will try to shoot them out of range goose fever is a thing that I have now and again but what I think is the reason for not as many pinks is they have moved to different areas (over shooting out of range shooting disturbance I hear the cry) may be not my opinion is when the last government under mr blair was in power some people were shouting about sugar mountain and they cut sugar production so the farmers are not growing it so now as a country we import sugar from third world countries to help them (cane sugar) talk about food miles work that out so the farmers are now having to grow other crops OIL SEED RAPE just look how the country has turned yellow good for pigeon shooting well may be so much food now they are getting hard to decoy all the time so I digress so not so much sugar beet so no beet top for them to feed on they now travel a long way to feed on what beet top is left not ploughed in while out on the marsh you can watch huge flights of pink very high and as they near the coast you see them split in to 4 or 5 groups still a lot in each group fly to different roosts around the coast and this is why we are not seeing so many as some have found new roosts (yes I know shooting pressure disturbance ect) but I don't think this the only reason they are having to look for their favourite food and move to find it still that's my opinion might not be every body's but I had to say this cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal mud hopper Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Yes I heard it to just been standing out side watch the geese come off as they fly in land they are getting to a great height forming their lines the old ganders up front with the map I live about 4 miles in land and they are still gaining height as they go over I had to go to Norwich the other day and some of the farms have lifted beet I was heading towards the 47 at lenwade that far in land I saw pink on the beet top and more dropping in these could have come from my part of the coast flight lines about right a few years ago they would be flying over my house I could sit in my front room watching television and they would drowned the sound out they could take an hour or more to pass now very few fly over as no beet top in the area I have found where beet is grown as soon as they lift it the geese are there for a couple of days then gone as it gets ploughed in unless it is to wet but nothing of the numbers that used to be around they all fly well in land in search of the beet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Coastal Mud Hopper. So how do you account for the thousands of acres of Beet tops left from early November till after Christmas due to crop rotation and not a single Goose has fed on it where 3-5 years ago there would have been thousand upon thousands !!!!!! Last season alone 4 Estates I know very well again had laying Beet Tops not a Goose was seen or heard. The simple fact of the matter is the Geese don't use what was a very Large roost now and the reasons are well documented so know need to go over that again. I do know that Large numbers of Pinks have found peaceful roosts not to far away and long may they do so and not suffer the same as Brancaster then Thornham Pinks did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal mud hopper Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 yes I agree with you and as for thousands of acres of beet top and no geese proves my point they have moved still this is only my opinion there is still a large roost at holkham and to a lesser extent deepdale but on the fresh water marshes some still roost on the sand banks a lot have moved to other areas the geese are still about flight lines and roosts have changed as feeding patterns have changed but as we all know if they are pursued on there roosts or feeding ground they move to other areas that's why etiquette says we should not but there are some that will and do I my self only flight duck or geese so far for four trips this season I have had 5 duck and 4 greys and 2 pink you might not agree with what I say but I think that to be honest it is perhaps all these factors that we need to take in to consideration as for thornham I shot there on many a day ticket and can remember when I picked up the last day ticket with my friend who I was a guessed with the chap said this is the last one tomorrow we are doing it more for us you see. this was back I think in the early 80,s may be late 70,s I remember lots of wigeon teal even golden eye but very few pink and grays but a lot of Canada I shot a 17 pound one the tide was flooding and I had to walk all the way round to get back to where we had parked and the strap broke on my bag a struggle that was . Still back to matters the pink are still around but have moved as for the thornham thing no I do not agree that a club should displace another what should have happened is the larger one could have helped but did not just taken over not very nice. at least they could have offered the first year at lower cost to the local club and come to other arrangements for later as for threats of legal action well all I can say is How to win friends and influence people NOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 yes I agree with you and as for thousands of acres of beet top and no geese proves my point they have moved still this is only my opinion there is still a large roost at holkham and to a lesser extent deepdale but on the fresh water marshes some still roost on the sand banks a lot have moved to other areas the geese are still about flight lines and roosts have changed as feeding patterns have changed but as we all know if they are pursued on there roosts or feeding ground they move to other areas that's why etiquette says we should not but there are some that will and do I my self only flight duck or geese so far for four trips this season I have had 5 duck and 4 greys and 2 pink you might not agree with what I say but I think that to be honest it is perhaps all these factors that we need to take in to consideration as for thornham I shot there on many a day ticket and can remember when I picked up the last day ticket with my friend who I was a guessed with the chap said this is the last one tomorrow we are doing it more for us you see. this was back I think in the early 80,s may be late 70,s I remember lots of wigeon teal even golden eye but very few pink and grays but a lot of Canada I shot a 17 pound one the tide was flooding and I had to walk all the way round to get back to where we had parked and the strap broke on my bag a struggle that was . Still back to matters the pink are still around but have moved as for the thornham thing no I do not agree that a club should displace another what should have happened is the larger one could have helped but did not just taken over not very nice. at least they could have offered the first year at lower cost to the local club and come to other arrangements for later as for threats of legal action well all I can say is How to win friends and influence people NOT I think this contradicts your earlier post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Glad you spotted and posted that Motty as those was/are my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal mud hopper Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 yes sorry but the point is on most of my area has very little beet sorry about that bit of a fopar as for geese moving about though they still head a lot further inland now than they did a few years ago looking for the beet top and some have moved roosts to talking to another wildfowler to day he recons that pink move roosts about every ten to fifteen years don't know about that though any way sorry chaps you are very right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono 4 Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 So the takeover of another clubs shooting by Kent Wildfowlers continues, today notification issued by Norfolk County Council, East Coast Sporting Ltd are requesting the transfer of a quarter share of the same right as held by the wild spaces fund, both have common registered address, and common directors according to companies house, but East Coast Sporting was incorporated January 2014. Not happy with taking the first quarter share it seems it's free game to buy more to take over the shooting from another club, where will it end when you have to be a member of Kent Wildfowlers to go in England, it appears they will stop at nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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