ditchman Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Well ...our boys and girls have all moved out the Yanks have still several thousand "advisors" there....and the "islamasists" have moved in to the 2nd largest city and taken it over.....the Iraq forces have chucked their uniforms away...and ordance left behind and run for it, should we stop meddling in other countries affairs at emense cost to our economy and our young people ? I havnt a problem about using our armed forces to do what they were trained to do, but not as "armed social workers"............there must be some boys on here that have served in Iraq....how do you feel about what has happened now ?......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootgun Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Having spent 8 months in Basra on my last tour, i can tell you, we all knew is a waste of time and sooner or later this will happen again... just let them sort themselfs out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Calling them islamists isn't helpful for a start because most people in the western world immediately jump to a conclusion based on that word. Not having a go at you ditchman, because it's what's being reported in the media. Like any situation, it's always more complicated than reported by our media. I agree that it is incredibly frustrating when we deploy huge amounts of people and resources (and lose some) in a situation which does appear to go back to something approaching the way it was before, after we've gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Calling them islamists isn't helpful for a start because most people in the western world immediately jump to a conclusion based on that word. Not having a go at you ditchman, because it's what's being reported in the media. Like any situation, it's always more complicated than reported by our media. I agree that it is incredibly frustrating when we deploy huge amounts of people and resources (and lose some) in a situation which does appear to go back to something approaching the way it was before, after we've gone. I know you are not having a go at me...i said it like how it was reported......which as you correctly point out is totally wrong....perhaps certain media dont want to actually use the true discription of the "protaganists"..........for a reason !! Hhmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 For that reason I've recently taken to watching alternative news sources. With Sky you can get quite a few, for example, something I found something of a surprise because of the negative press it sometimes receives, was Al Jazeera English. The way it reports some political stories in the UK is very interesting, and quite different from the way BBC does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 For that reason I've recently taken to watching alternative news sources. With Sky you can get quite a few, for example, something I found something of a surprise because of the negative press it sometimes receives, was Al Jazeera English. The way it reports some political stories in the UK is very interesting, and quite different from the way BBC does. Haahha.................you are not the only one to notice that ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 It's tricky one. Media frenzy seems to be whipped up, so that we appear to be watching people die, if we don't go and help. We inevitably go and "help", with brave troops dying in some numbers. When the dust settles - many years and lost lives later - you have to take a step back and ask why we went in the first place. Whatever the laudable motives, it rarely seems to solve anything. We just move on to another country to assist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 The writing was on the wall. Whenever there is a power vacuum, someone will come to fill it. The whole Iraq debacle was a sham from the start, based on a known false premise. It all boils down to George W. Bush wanting to finish his daddies business in Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Unfortunately it appears that the people in that part of the world wish to continue with their medieval life stile and tribal wars. It further appears that nothing that we do will convince them otherwise. And there are those that wish to impose this lifestyle upon us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) i think most people think we should never have been there but for the oil i doubt anyone would have been interested Edited June 11, 2014 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 You can't force change on a people unwilling to change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 You can't force change on a people unwilling to change Which is why the so called Trojan Horse affair in Schools should have been forseen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 The yanks installed Saddam Hussein to fight a proxy war against Iran, having had their noses put out of joint by the fall of the Shah of Persia. When Saddam failed to restore a US sympathetic government in Iran and, because of the arms supplied by the US, he was able to stick two fingers up at the US and started to control the oil for his own interest. He then became a liability so Haliburton, sorry, the US, branded him a terrorist and invented the 'war on terror' to justify invading Iraq. Haliburton, sorry, the US ignored warnings that to invade would cause a political vacuum which would be exploited by all kinds of minority factions and help them gain a foothold. One of these groups was the Pakistani based Taliban who Haliburton, sorry, the US had backed to fight in Afghanistan against the Russians. Iraq has been shattered by hundreds of bombings and murders every day since but our news would never report it. Now the political vacuum is being filled by armed groups who've been supplied their weapons by either the US, Russians or China. Study of a map reveals that Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Syria form a line of destabilised countries between Russia and Saudi Arabia and its oil. The latest destabilisation of Ukraine is no mystery either given that the US has been building up its troop levels in Ukraine, Poland, Latvia and Lithuania. These countries continue that line up the western side of Russia forming a buffer zone between Russia and Europe. Of course, I do not have a shred of evidence that any of this is true and it's all only my opinion and the fact that, when I was in the RAF in the seventies, we were carrying out excercises based on just such a scenario. Back to the original question of whether we should have invaded Iraq or not. Well, the US has invaded loads of countries and created political vacuums that then become filled with anti west entities that we then have to fight against but, hey ho, the US military machine has to fight wars somewhere otherwise there'd be mass unemployment in the states. I do have one question, if this 'war on terror' was so real then how come there was only one 9/11 attack and a couple of attacks in London. Our security services are are surely not that good, are they? Mexicans pour over the US border and we're snowed under with illegal immigrants. If you own shares in Haliburton then, yes it was worth. If not then no, it wasn't worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 I reckon a Mr. P. Bliar, late of Downing Street, reckons it was very very very worth it; every time he checks his bank balance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 I own shares in Halliburton :-) and they are doing very nicely Was it a waste?, well it was certainly a waste of lives, equipment and money to go through all that and not get our hands on the oil. Turns my stomach to see the likes of the Chinese and even the French taking full advantage of the situation We used to run an empire very very well, and we did not do that by being nice to the natives and certainly not by leaving them with full control of their natural resources...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Unfortunately it appears that the people in that part of the world wish to continue with their medieval life stile and tribal wars. It further appears that nothing that we do will convince them otherwise. And there are those that wish to impose this lifestyle upon us. Ermmmm..... we were over there trying to impose our lifestyle on them ? But that's ok ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) Calling them islamists isn't helpful for a start because most people in the western world immediately jump to a conclusion based on that word. Not having a go at you ditchman, because it's what's being reported in the media. Like any situation, it's always more complicated than reported by our media. I agree that it is incredibly frustrating when we deploy huge amounts of people and resources (and lose some) in a situation which does appear to go back to something approaching the way it was before, after we've gone. May not be helpful but its not lying is it? seeing as how these attacks have been carried out by ISIS? (Islamic State Of Iraq and al -Sham ) or is truthful reporting (AT LAST) no longer acceptable, and we should all still believe its just a teenie weenie few naughty lads doing this? sadly countries like this IE Iraq Libya Egypt Syria Iran etc need the likes of Saddam to keep order , as we cant and we wont, and if you think letting them get on with it wont affect us? then think again. KW Edited June 11, 2014 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Was it going to end any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Maybe the US can get some target pactise in with some UMAV`s and start taking out these millitants and there vehicles. Not boots on the ground just air support. Strange how they can fight so hard against the colaition forces but against the real nutters who want to contol them and kill them and make them live misserable lives ! ATB Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 The whole area is just a flyblown pit of wasted lives and money. Winston Churchill said as much and he was right, no matter how much we give and how many UK or US soldiers get killed you will still have multiple tribes of savages ruled by extremists, all of them just waiting to settle old scores with other savages who insulted their families 3 generations back. We should have kept our noses out, ordinary people know that but politicians don't. The best thing we could do now is just walk away from all of it, pull all the Brits out of the sorry mess and make sure that all Iraqis/Iranians/Syrians or whatever are over here are sent back bloody pronto. Multiculturalism and diversity sounds good on paper but if you read the reports from Afghanistan most of the Afghan army and police don't even know how to use a toilet ***! Build them a new police station and they steal the fittings and **** on the bloody floor, same with the schools, one report is about a school for orphans, our soldiers found all the orphans suddenly sleeping in the school because the manager of the orphanage turfed the kids out so he could use the place as his home! Yes, there are decent folk from every country but from that area the majority are uncivilised, untrustworthy and will stay that way for generations to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 One thing is for sure our homeland security is going to have to wake up as with us out of the middle east its going to become a hell hole with lots of nutters wanting to attach most of the eu and us. I think it will bring far more armed policew to our streets and also big changes to our defence forces ! ATB Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 It is about time that both us and the Americans learned to mind our own business and stop pokeing our noses in where it should not be as I see it we live on a little Island instead of wasting our money having a big Army we need to worry about the things that could affect us first we need a good Navy so that we can get stuff in and out then we need good border control to stop the bad people getting in but instead all that we do is go in to other peoples countrys and sture things up then lots of these people say its to bad for us to live there so they move to this country naw that was a good idea wasent it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 May not be helpful but its not lying is it? seeing as how these attacks have been carried out by ISIS? (Islamic State Of Iraq and al -Sham ) or is truthful reporting (AT LAST) no longer acceptable, and we should all still believe its just a teenie weenie few naughty lads doing this? sadly countries like this IE Iraq Libya Egypt Syria Iran etc need the likes of Saddam to keep order , as we cant and we wont, and if you think letting them get on with it wont affect us? then think again. KW No need to have a go at me. I was commenting on the state of news reporting. If all govts there are Islamist what's the point in whipping up Daily Mail-esque hysteria by using it in a pejorative sense. Maybe it's because it shifts focus away from something. I wonder what that could be...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Maybe it's because it shifts focus away from something. I wonder what that could be...... WMD's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 WMD's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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