grrclark Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 I don't really know what Salmond stands for other than separation LL. I honestly do believe that his focus on that single cause is really what drives him. He plays the role of someone who stands just outside of the elite establishment well, always being the thorn in the side of the Westminster ruling classes and carrying the voice of the common man, but he is just as much part of the machine as anyone else. Without someone to blame Salmond will have to stand or fall by his own beliefs. I actually suspect that he is more central to right wing then he is promoting right now, but he will do or say what he needs to in order to achieve that primary objective. I almost expect to see him retire from politics if there is a yes vote, he will distance himself from the consequences, but I think that his ego will prevent that from happening, he is believing his own hype. As for the comments from you and Blunderbuss around the sentiment in England it galls me terribly to be told by some that we are in effect a parasitic lump living off the English host, but that is just ignorance and not being close enough or informed enough to challenge assumptions, but like Blunderbuss I think that this referendum issue has taken that to a different level altogether. There is going to be a real resentment and bitterness, not just ill informed opinions, but a very real feeling of betrayal. We still have flag waving jingoists that carry a grudge from hundreds of years ago, this new one isn't going to go away in a hurry. I have spent a lot of my business life working with people in London and in my experience there is no great love of Scotland and that is when things were going well. I wonder in just how many boardrooms there are serious discussion underway about how they exit Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 I have spent a lot of my business life working with people in London and in my experience there is no great love of Scotland and that is when things were going well. I wonder in just how many boardrooms there are serious discussion underway about how they exit Scotland. Quite a few that have been doing exactly that and for some time. Board members have little appetite for the kind of economic, tax and legislative uncertainty that they believe will come with a Yes vote. It's all about confidence at the end of the day and within the business community, confidence in a separate Scotland would appear to be in rather short supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 basically then we are screwed if do and screwed if we don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Wonder if it will ****** up the Rugby tournaments, Scotish Shire going it alone if it happens. Figgy On a more frivolous note, I don't think the rugby will be affected (unless Supreme Ruler Alex bans all English sports) Munster, Leinster and Connaught all play in tournaments. And they aren't even in the official commonwealth. Even Ulster is one third RoI. Ulster consists of the 6 counties of N. Ireland plus three in the republic. Probably the most famous non-Northern Irish Ulsterman in rugby circles is Tommy Bowe. He's from Monaghan. Rest easy about the rugby figgy! Edited September 9, 2014 by Big Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Sadly true, but it will only be a socialist utopia until such time as the bills can't be paid then it will be forced to change. It may well take a generation or two. From my perspective as living in this part of the world, if there is a yes vote then I would rather be taking steps to try and influence that in whatever way I can. I think i would be more effective in throwing poop at the moon, but being a surrender monkey is not an attractive thought.** Maybe it can provide a catalyst for change in the rest of the UK and get rid of much of the bloat that hamstrings the UK just now, will still be a very painful transition for the rest of the UK too I fear. You can argue the technical financial/social ramifications of a yes vote until you are ‘Blue in the Face’, have you ever tried reasoning with a Scotsman when he is bellowing his position at full throttle? Skilful Politian’s and their ilk know how and what motivates the masses and more importantly how to manipulate that motivation to their own advantage, the message to all concerned must be before you embark upon the ‘Scottish Nationalists’ mystery tour, ‘Engage your Brain before you Board the Train’ or you are likely to arrive at an unintended destination in the land of the lost holding an invalid return ticket. I would add that I have never met a Scot who did not consider themselves to be such in the first instance before and above their gender so even in the land of the lost whosoever is the present occupier will certainly notice their arrival and we this side of the border will regret their departure! ** In such a situation gravity will forever be your enemy! :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 wise words and well put, what do you mean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 wise words and well put, what do you mean ? The die is cast, minds have been made up in the yes camp and this mind-set will now be all but impossible to reverse at this stage of the proceedings. Many by manipulating motivations. Ask yourselves what the firm plan is after the vote before you cast your vote, what are the long term projections for the new national outlook, are there any guarantees, what is really in it for me? After a yes outcome Scotland could find its place in the world order had radically changed for the worst and could face a humiliating renegotiation of its terms of re-entry back into the UK, would they be welcomed back? I have met a few Scotsmen in my time and after a few disagreements and subsequently having given each other a few lumps and bruises by way of argumental punctuation we came to respect each other’s point of view whilst at the same time vehemently conflicting with the issues involved. So I believe that Scotland will always be Scotland because of the type of individual that that it fosters, wherever she ends up hopefully she will do well but hope as they say, ‘Makes a fine breakfast but a poor supper’! No other nation can fill the void that will be left in the UK’s national defences that could prove beyond regrettable Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Wow,this topic has real emotion and historical/latent feelings are burbling to the surface... The Scots have and had some of the best entrepreneurs,innovators,inventors..what has been stirred though is deeply worrying.....Salmond/Spurgeon is intellectually a ticket that does no Scot proud however and in picking off the scab of extreme nationalism I believe has driven and will continue to drive a big wedge between England/Scotland. a yes vote will be bad news financially to both countries initially,but longer term,the money that will pour out of Scotland and especially its financial services industries(massive especially in Edinburgh) will confound folk...the job losses will follow.How many British companies have their pensions managed by different countries?Why risk differing laws/currencies?Same with savings & investments the exodus from the highly respected Scottish institutions will be massive.and crippling.You think banking caused a problem?A run on longer term saving will unpick some very old fabric... I love Scotland,and indeed the Scots,they have every right to vote as they wish,but holy fly I think none of the real issues and impacts have been openly or honestly debated and a Scotland with its finite Oil resource and a smashed financial services sector is going to become one hell of a lot poorer in the next 20 years if they chose to paddle their own ship....Westminster has been useless for everybody not just scotland!..thats democracy/bureacrats;they will be just the same if you move their head office to Scotland......you gave us TV/Telephones/lightbulbs/computers etc.........however you also gave us Gordon Brown/Salmond/Spurgeon..they should'nt be permitted to contribute to the world in any shape or form!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) STOTTO Thanks for your lyrical explanation, fear not, all is not lost most people I meet laugh at devolution or question at least were the money will come from, if a yes vote then time will tell, but Scots are stoic, at least there would be no need for the constant bickering between nations, the Scots can go their way and the English can stop moaning about paying for everything ! I'm going fishing cheers Edited September 9, 2014 by islandgun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 STOTTO Thanks for your lyrical explanation, fear not, all is not lost most people I meet laugh at devolution or question at least were the money will come from, dont worry there will soon be adverts asking for "just £2 a week" to help the scots KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 English can stop moaning about paying for everything ! I'm going fishing cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 kdubya - cruel, but not beyond a possibility. I wish the Scots well whatever they vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 I'm sure Royal Mail will be relieved when there is a Yes vote. They will not have to fulfil their obligation for fixed price deliveries throughout the UK. The more remote parts of Scotland were certainly a loss to them. So no more cheap free delivery eBay deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxie Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 The Irish Republic left the U.K ninety years ago.its GDP per capita is higher than the U.K`s now,despite having virtually no natural resources and no industry apart from agriculture at its time of leaving.Scotland has more natural advantages than the Republic and potentially could thrive.However a change of mindset will be needed but that will come over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 The Irish Republic left the U.K ninety years ago.its GDP per capita is higher than the U.K`s now,despite having virtually no natural resources and no industry apart from agriculture at its time of leaving.Scotland has more natural advantages than the Republic and potentially could thrive.However a change of mindset will be needed but that will come over time. Good point maxie, I have a feeling a lot of their success is down to a small population and having room to move, coupled with copious amounts of Guiness and plenty of top quality fishing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 The Irish Republic left the U.K ninety years ago.its GDP per capita is higher than the U.K`s now,despite having virtually no natural resources and no industry apart from agriculture at its time of leaving.Scotland has more natural advantages than the Republic and potentially could thrive.However a change of mindset will be needed but that will come over time. I didn't think Irish GDP/capita was more than the UK. I thought they were similar. Happy to be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxie Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 World bank figures are $43,000 for Irish Rep,$36,000 for the U.K.2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Has anyone tried Japanese Malt...its better than the real thing !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Has anyone tried Japanese Malt...its better than the real thing !! I have and you're right, it's lovely!! http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-23772.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 I have and you're right, it's lovely!! http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-23772.aspx Indeed and the Suntory sherry cask is just bloody brilliant too... **** the Scots who needs em...hello Yasuki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNS Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Be interesting to see what happens if an independent Scotland did join the EU - Its not clear that they would be able to use the zero rate of VAT on food, kids clothing, books, new housing etc that the UK enjoys, given the odd way in which the UK was allowed to keep them on entry. But as many of you have already posted above, it does appear a debate that is not focused on such detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Agreed - totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 The governor of the bank of England has just been on TV saying an independent Scotland cannot have the pound sterling end of, and that a Scottish currency would be devalued by 50% and it seems companies have started removing assets? KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 The governor of the bank of England has just been on TV saying an independent Scotland cannot have the pound sterling end of, and that a Scottish currency would be devalued by 50% and it seems companies have started removing assets? KW Best get the A1 dual carriages ah all the way for all the buisness that will be leaving, better get your little aid envelopes printed ready. Can you spare two pounds a week to help this child of Scotland and many more.His parents were once to proud to look at the big picture and followed Alex Salmond, and now wallow in self pity and alcoholism leaving little Donald to fend for himself. Figgy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Be interesting to see what happens if an independent Scotland did join the EU - Its not clear that they would be able to use the zero rate of VAT on food, kids clothing, books, new housing etc that the UK enjoys, given the odd way in which the UK was allowed to keep them on entry. But as many of you have already posted above, it does appear a debate that is not focused on such detail Spain will try everything in their power to stop Scotland joining as it gives the Basques hope of gaining their independance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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