Gamekeeper found guilty

[four-wheel-drive]

Buzzard most definitely have been re-introduced in to some parts of England. It is without question they are a native species and were wiped out in some areas. In Norfolk they have been re-introduced to the area.

The thing is we used to have Bears Wolves Beavers and lots of other wild animals and there is a good reason for us not having them now for the most part they were pests to people trying to make a living and feed there families working on farms. Today for the most part it is people who do not live or work in the country that want these animals returned when it is not them that have to cope with the damage that they do.

[loriusgarrulus]

The antis will always go for an easy target. If it is something that the majority of people have no idea how things really are all the better. Then they can supply misinformation to their hearts content and most swallow it hook line and sinker without question. Most people haven,t a clue how much damage pest species do. They see a rabbit or a grey squirrel and the cute fluffy syndrome kicks in. They see gamekeepers as a rich man's employee for his sport and folks who shoot as blood thirsty gun toting nutters. They haven,t a clue about the amount of conservation that is done because of shooting. When something like this comes up in the news they tar everyone with the same brush.

[Penelope]

Correct as usual.

 

Joe 1 has done it they don't 'all still do it'.

 

If i put something out of the paper about drink drivers or hgv or motor bike riders causing crashes/deaths throu dangerous driving then tarred ALL drivers with the same brush would that be fair?

Yet 1 keeper is caught breaking the law and we're all guility?

That suits the anti's and so called 'conservationists' agenda, but the fact is almost all BoP species are at an all time high, yet plenty of other once common birds are on red or amber lists and genuinely in real danger population wise and becoming locally exticnt over large areas of land (even once very common birds like lapwing. oystercatcher, curlew or grey partridge) and u never hear a peep out of these so called 'conservationists' as they don't make them money

[garygreengrass]

Idiot, Hope he gets jail for using poison, Its not only the birds of pray he is killing its all the other birds and animals that might feed off the carcass or maggots.

Edited October 3, 2014 by garygreengrass

[birdsallpl]

Idiot, Hope he gets jail for using poison, Its not only the birds of pray he is killing its all the other birds and animals that might feed off the carcass or maggots.

 

Serious question. Would maggots actually carry the poison and if eaten pass it on?

[norfolk dumpling]

He must be extremely thick to do this and think he can get away with it. Sadly it will reflect badly on all of us and give our enemies exactly what they want when we get a less sympathetic government. Just been painting my house and every few minutes we have the sound of buzzards overhead. Up to 4 of them today - had a spell earlier this year when for 2/3 months none about but now the big shoot on my doorstep has poults everywhere (driving my spaniels to distraction as they dust outside their kennels) so we do perhaps have to take a measure of blame for this.

[Bazooka Joe]

Joe 1 has done it they don't 'all still do it'.

 

 

I agreed, 99.99% don't SL, but a few still do.

[Kes]

He must be extremely thick to do this and think he can get away with it. Sadly it will reflect badly on all of us and give our enemies exactly what they want when we get a less sympathetic government. Just been painting my house and every few minutes we have the sound of buzzards overhead. Up to 4 of them today - had a spell earlier this year when for 2/3 months none about but now the big shoot on my doorstep has poults everywhere (driving my spaniels to distraction as they dust outside their kennels) so we do perhaps have to take a measure of blame for this.

That is a good point.

[four-wheel-drive]

May i ask why you are not a fan of these big birds.....?

I have nothing against the birds as such the thing that annoys me is the way that they was foisted on us without asking us if we wanted them and they was not just released they was fed at great expense until in parts of the country there are large flocks of them being fed then as they spread out around the country they do not take the crows rooks etc as they will fight back they tend to take the birds with small beaks that cannot defend themselves.

[Harnser]

I have nothing against the birds as such the thing that annoys me is the way that they was foisted on us without asking us if we wanted them and they was not just released they was fed at great expense until in parts of the country there are large flocks of them being fed then as they spread out around the country they do not take the crows rooks etc as they will fight back they tend to take the birds with small beaks that cannot defend themselves.

Yes they were reintroduced with out any consultation with the general public . But I bet if there was a referendum to reintroduce these raptors there would have been a massive yes vote .

 

The reintroduction of the buzzard only seems to be a problem to estates and shoots rearing game birds for shooting and you know What the general population thinks about shooting , particularly shooting game birds reared just for shooting . I think that we have to live with these wonderful birds of prey and I think they are entitled to a living even at the expense of some game birds . Remember the old proverb about sowing your seed . One for the stoney ground ,one for the rook and one to reap .

 

Harnser

[johnphilip]

Yes they were reintroduced with out any consultation with the general public . But I bet if there was a referendum to reintroduce these raptors there would have been a massive yes vote .

The reintroduction of the buzzard only seems to be a problem to estates and shoots rearing game birds for shooting and you know What the general population thinks about shooting , particularly shooting game birds reared just for shooting . I think that we have to live with these wonderful birds of prey and I think they are entitled to a living even at the expense of some game birds . Remember the old proverb about sowing your seed . One for the stoney ground ,one for the rook and one to reap .

Harnser

I think you have summed the hole thread up in those lines you have typed, i think they are beautiful birds and i see them every day i am out.

[johnphilip]

Yes they were reintroduced with out any consultation with the general public . But I bet if there was a referendum to reintroduce these raptors there would have been a massive yes vote .

The reintroduction of the buzzard only seems to be a problem to estates and shoots rearing game birds for shooting and you know What the general population thinks about shooting , particularly shooting game birds reared just for shooting . I think that we have to live with these wonderful birds of prey and I think they are entitled to a living even at the expense of some game birds . Remember the old proverb about sowing your seed . One for the stoney ground ,one for the rook and one to reap .

Harnser.

 

Posted twice

Edited October 4, 2014 by johnphilip

[loriusgarrulus]

Sowing Seed:

 

One for the rook

One for the crow

One to wither

One to grow

 

Was the one i was taught.

[Harnser]

Sowing Seed:

 

One for the rook

One for the crow

One to wither

One to grow

 

Was the one i was taught.

I was fairly close . But the message is there .

 

Harnser

[Harnser]

Incidentally,I know the estate well were this dreadful thing happened and have shot the farms for pigeon a few years back . I am very surprised that it happened at all and wouldn't have thought that the owners would have known that it was going on . I am sure they wouldn't have agreed to let this happen .

 

Harnser

[955i]

May i ask why you are not a fan of these big birds.....?

Traumatised by Sesame Street maybe

[955i]

The thing is we used to have Bears Wolves Beavers and lots of other wild animals and there is a good reason for us not having them now for the most part they were pests to people trying to make a living and feed there families working on farms. Today for the most part it is people who do not live or work in the country that want these animals returned when it is not them that have to cope with the damage that they do.

Hang on a moment.

 

The reality is that bears wolves and beavers used to live here quite happily and in balance until people came along and decided that nature had to bend to their will/needs or it was a pest and should be wiped out!

 

Who is the real problem in this equation??

Edited October 4, 2014 by 955i

[Full Pelt]

I honestly think it would be positive if BASC stopped blindly supporting the game shooting industry and admit it does happen, then with the CLA and any other shooting organizations refuse membership to the shoots and all connected with them .

 

I've been on game shoots, and recently, all BASC members and several were happy to take a pot shot at a spar'hawk and one treated us to a very good display of his skill in shooting a woodcock out of season. Some in the gameshooting world need to turn their lilly-white boxers inside out and look at the scum hitching a ride.

 

 

What reason would you give for controlling raptors ? To protect game birds reared for shooting . I don't think that would work or gain any support from the vast numbers of non shooters in this country .

 

Harnser

 

This is very true. There are plently of land owners with no interest in game shooting. I shoot for one and he prefers the rabbits left out for the buzzards and kites.

 

Incidentally,I know the estate well were this dreadful thing happened and have shot the farms for pigeon a few years back . I am very surprised that it happened at all and wouldn't have thought that the owners would have known that it was going on . I am sure they wouldn't have agreed to let this happen .

 

Harnser

 

Having lived locally when Ian Mcnichol owned Stody Estate and Alan Lambert was the full-time keeper there was no way that it would have been condoned behaviour or turned a blind eye to. Buzzards were rare then (this was 20 years ago), you could see the odd Rough-legged Buzzard as a winter migrant but not many Common ones. How times change. I can think of one or two farmers there who will be very embarrassed by this man's behaviour. It's pathetic.

[Scully]

I honestly think it would be positive if BASC stopped blindly supporting the game shooting industry and admit it does happen, then with the CLA and any other shooting organizations refuse membership to the shoots and all connected with them .

Don't all shooting organisations already condemn unlawful practises, and state that any parties known to be breaking the law will have their membership cancelled? I don't think the support of those organisations is given 'blindly'; it isn't in their interest to do so. I don't know what else they can be expected to do. They can't be held responsible for the acts of individuals. Has BASC come out in support of this 'keeper?

[jrr230]

Has anyone thought of this... Kites and Buzzards have been re-introduced , the kite is now eating what the buzzards would have eaten, the buzzard has a wide diet so goes from eating dead/ carrion, to just about anything he can get his beak into, poults, adult birds, rats, mice, etc. Now where does that leave the poor old Owl' s. being only designed to eat rats and mice etc that the buzzard is now eating because he can't get the carrion he used to get because the Kites have beaten him to it. This is the bigger picture of re-introduction by people in offices making decisions on our countryside , who only pull on their garden centre bought Wellies on a Sunday, pull on a brightly coloured anorak, dangle some very expensive Swarovski bino's around their necks and spend an hour or two looking at what we do 12 to 14 hours a day 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Rant over.

[scotslad]

Has anyone thought of this... Kites and Buzzards have been re-introduced , the kite is now eating what the buzzards would have eaten, the buzzard has a wide diet so goes from eating dead/ carrion, to just about anything he can get his beak into, poults, adult birds, rats, mice, etc. Now where does that leave the poor old Owl' s. being only designed to eat rats and mice etc that the buzzard is now eating because he can't get the carrion he used to get because the Kites have beaten him to it. This is the bigger picture of re-introduction by people in offices making decisions on our countryside , who only pull on their garden centre bought Wellies on a Sunday, pull on a brightly coloured anorak, dangle some very expensive Swarovski bino's around their necks and spend an hour or two looking at what we do 12 to 14 hours a day 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Rant over.

 

Spot on, althou u forgot to mention the Badgers also tidying up any carrion as well as actively hunting anything it can from ground nesting birds, rabbits, lambs to bee's.

 

The simple fact is the country side is a complicated and effecting the numbers of 1 species can have massive influences on all sorts of other species exactly because of the linkk jrr has mentioned above. But complicated as it is it is still not rocket science, when u live and work in the country side every day u notice the small changes.

 

I fully admit releasing a large number of released game can damge an area but also so can allow predator numbers to get out of control, almost every ecosystem needs prey species to be far more numerous (and a bigger boimass, even the ammount of plankton far outwieghs the mass of whales i the oceans) than predator species, that is probably no longer the case in this country.

Look at any BTO survey info pretty much every bird species i would reguard as prey (pllus most mammal) are declining in some instances very rapidly over the past 20-30 years esp, that same 20-30 year period has seen a massive rise in predator numbers wether it is corvid's, BoP and badger or even pine martin which is spreading its range.

It can't all be a coincedence over the whole of the UK

 

Many esp the 'conservationists' blame it on 'modern farming practices' but no one can tell me wot these are!!

I have lived in the same area all my life near some 'modern farms' yet the buries and warrens i used to ferret 30 odd year ago are still there,hedges are stil there, there is more hedges and ponds than ever yet less birdlife.

Modern farming practises is just a cop out so they don't have to admit to there membership that shock horror some anmals eat each other, and if u have too many animals eating each other u will have less of the ones getting ate.

[955i]

Has anyone thought of this... Kites and Buzzards have been re-introduced , the kite is now eating what the buzzards would have eaten, the buzzard has a wide diet so goes from eating dead/ carrion, to just about anything he can get his beak into, poults, adult birds, rats, mice, etc. Now where does that leave the poor old Owl' s. being only designed to eat rats and mice etc that the buzzard is now eating because he can't get the carrion he used to get because the Kites have beaten him to it. This is the bigger picture of re-introduction by people in offices making decisions on our countryside , who only pull on their garden centre bought Wellies on a Sunday, pull on a brightly coloured anorak, dangle some very expensive Swarovski bino's around their necks and spend an hour or two looking at what we do 12 to 14 hours a day 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Rant over.

Nonsense!!

 

Tawny and little owls which are the most common along with barn owl eat a lot of insects in their diet as well.

 

Your 'countryside' is a green desert because of modern farming practices which brings animals which have existed perfectly well for thousands of years into conflict with man, who for some reason think they have dominion over the planet despite having been here for a very short time in real terms.

 

Ditch the human arrogance and you may find the world a better place

[955i]

 

Spot on, althou u forgot to mention the Badgers also tidying up any carrion as well as actively hunting anything it can from ground nesting birds, rabbits, lambs to bee's.

 

The simple fact is the country side is a complicated and effecting the numbers of 1 species can have massive influences on all sorts of other species exactly because of the linkk jrr has mentioned above. But complicated as it is it is still not rocket science, when u live and work in the country side every day u notice the small changes.

 

I fully admit releasing a large number of released game can damge an area but also so can allow predator numbers to get out of control, almost every ecosystem needs prey species to be far more numerous (and a bigger boimass, even the ammount of plankton far outwieghs the mass of whales i the oceans) than predator species, that is probably no longer the case in this country.

Look at any BTO survey info pretty much every bird species i would reguard as prey (pllus most mammal) are declining in some instances very rapidly over the past 20-30 years esp, that same 20-30 year period has seen a massive rise in predator numbers wether it is corvid's, BoP and badger or even pine martin which is spreading its range.

It can't all be a coincedence over the whole of the UK

 

Many esp the 'conservationists' blame it on 'modern farming practices' but no one can tell me wot these are!!

I have lived in the same area all my life near some 'modern farms' yet the buries and warrens i used to ferret 30 odd year ago are still there,hedges are stil there, there is more hedges and ponds than ever yet less birdlife.

Modern farming practises is just a cop out so they don't have to admit to there membership that shock horror some anmals eat each other, and if u have too many animals eating each other u will have less of the ones getting ate.

Let me oblige

 

Modern farming favours large fields over small, reduction in hedgerows and stone walls = loss of habitat for birds, reptiles, small mammals etc

 

Pesticides and herbicides sprayed to crops = lack of insect food and in the case of DDT (no longer in use) thinning of eggshells within birds and dramatic reduction in raptor species.

 

Google is your friend, try using it before posting a daft comment

 

There are definitely not more hedges as these are removed to allow easier ploughing/seeding of fields and the loss of ponds is staggering as people prefer troughs now to giving up land to ponds.

Edited October 5, 2014 by 955i

[Old Bull]

 

 

There are definitely not more hedges as these are removed to allow easier ploughing/seeding of fields and the loss of ponds is staggering as people prefer troughs now to giving up land to ponds.

 

As far as i'm aware you are no longer allowed to let livestock drink out of ponds/ streams but i stand to be corrected.

[loriusgarrulus]

Lots of farms round our way still have access to local streams and rivers for their livestock.The hill sheep up in Wales, Scotland etc only have hill streams to drink out of.