welshwarrior Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I can see your need a 410 pistol would be my choice we want one for the farm but not got around to applying yet. Personally from what I've seen the 410 pistols are excellent dispatch tools as the shot is that tight it acts like a slug then dissipates without over penetration. I personally just use my rifle but I'm not stalking every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rst1990 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 3 large animal vets in the practice. All of us have all the guns on each of our certificates. Means any of us can grab any one. Obvious I'd have thought.Thought is the word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I have actually been out with a stalker with a revolver and he had it mostly because he wanted it rather than real need as most don't seem to need one. Ultimately though you need to show good reason and they will need to grant it or be prepared to fight the decision in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pboro shot Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I dont see a need for one when ive had to follow up deer a clients clipped ill have my 243 with me if i have to go back out take my hushpower 410 its a ideal tool for most small and large dispatch ive used 22lr also but dont like the idea on tarmac or solid other backstops saying that if i did terrier work id get one as i think in that situation ideal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) I have actually been out with a stalker with a revolver and he had it mostly because he wanted it rather than real need as most don't seem to need one. Few of us need a firearm, we have them for fun shooting clays etc. I know people that have handguns for target shooting. They could take up rifle shooting no need for a handgun. So if someone wants a handgun for humane dispatch and have no real need, they could use another firearm, I have no problem with that if they prefer to use a handgun, because they like handguns. I am just glad some on this forum are not FEO,s. Edited December 2, 2014 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I think a lot of people have missed my point, or even a couple of them. The easy one is "what do people use?"Like I've said, we just use another round from the rifle that fired the initial shot. I can't honestly say it's ever been a problem. Like I said, I feel I have enough to carry about and honestly couldn't be bothered to carry a pistol also. But that's just me, if you feel you have a genuine need then go for it. Around the farm the landowner generally just uses a .22 but I've seen him put down a fallen heifer with his .243 at very close range. The other is that I dont need to have a better argument than the feo- I just need to have "good reason". Yep, that's all you need. Why shouldnt I be granted the variation if I have a perfectly valid use for any firearm? If you can show good reason then there is no reason why you shouldn't have one at all. We (or certainly I) always hear that feos are not there to trip us up but to help us through the processes. That's the idea, in theory, but we all know it doesn't always work like that. Incidentally, if you have problems once you've applied, the SRA always had a good track record with appeals in such circumstances. They may be worth a call for advice; I'm assuming they're still on the go. There seem to be lots of people saying that they wouldnt use/dont need a pistol but should their decision mean that nobody should be allowed one? I don't think anyone is suggesting no one should have one, just that they don't need or want one. It's not up to anyone else to decide but your licensing authority. You asked people for their thoughts; it's only to be expected that some wont agree there is a need. Only you are in the best position to tell, given your personal circumstances. Personally if I felt I had good reason I'd just apply, seeking approval that you're doing the right thing from PW members isn't something you need. Lots of people say that a .243 is a big enough caliber for any animal in this country, thats their choice - does that mean nobody should have a bigger caliber? ?No, it doesn't, but like you say, it's 'their choice', and this one is yours. Sincerely, just go for it. What's the worst that can happen? If they say no then you're no worse off than you were before. Food for though? Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choke it Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 the thing I find on these sites is the people who cant have a humain killer are the ones who seam to dislike them ive had mine for longer than I care to mention i'am in gwent mines 2 shot why would you need more its for cop de grace not shooting indians I shoot fallow reds and boar, because I have one it don't mean I use it every trip 38/357 is the perfect tool for the job ive know loads of friends apply for one and never got it so because ive got one it doesn't mean you will get one and over the last couple of years gwent firearms team are up there with the best now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamey Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Personally I would apply like others have said, regardless of what position the FEO says. Should you not be granted the firearm, take legal action. Not police bashing, but most aren't the brightest when it comes to firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 If u really have a good reason go for it. I don't have a problem with folk owning one, but u haven't done a good job of convincing anyone on here yet (but to be fair u don't have to convince us) Before the hand gun ban came in how many stalkers would actually take there hand gun stalking? Do u have a specifically trained deer tracking dog? Must admit i know a couple of folk wi 1 and do think it is because they want one/impress their mates rather than a real need. But horses for courses. Won't be a massive difference in weight between a small unmoderated folding .410 (poachers gun) well the 2 pistols i have held have been surprisingly heavy Most of the pro stalkers i know if they need to follow up a deer instantly (which is not bestpractice depending where hit) will take the rifle of the client if needed Will there not still be some fairly big riccochet issues with using a pistol? A big solid slow miving round with a lot of energy will be more likely to bounce than a smaller faster round which is more likely to break up, from my little knowledge of pistol bullets/ballistics they tend to be solid an the biggest slowest moving rounds there is Most of the continetal hound men who are pretty much professional trackers following wounded deer/boar etc all carry a short barrelled fairly large calibre rifle with a low power scope/open sight or red dot type sight, which is also wot Trattaz? said earlier and i see he's from germany. So nice a pointable. Wot about a very short barrelled semi auto 12g and use rifled slugs (if u got really close could put a bird shot up spout as safer at close range), nice a pointable and meant to be fairly accurate out to 100m, probably easier to use if the animal tried to run. My mae out in NZ bought a semi auto 270 on purpose or shooting running deer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) Will there not still be some fairly big riccochet issues with using a pistol? I know vets that use handguns with expanding ammo its not an issue, you would of course make sure their was no one near in case there was a ricochet, just like you would when using any firearm. well the 2 pistols i have held have been surprisingly heavy Todays polymer framed handguns are very light. (but to be fair u don't have to convince us) That's just as well as it seems for some reason when it comes to handguns , some on this forum have the same view as the anti gun lobby civilians shouldn't have them. Edited December 7, 2014 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Hi Ed You want one you have good reason just tell the feo to put the application in.If they say no ask for the reason why not to be put in writing and you will take it from there.There will be times when a pistol will be the best tool for the job and it is better to have the correct tool and not need it than need it and not have it. I have a 9mm CZ85 and have found it easier to carry in thick undergrowth and densely packed fir trees.The law says you can have one so go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 I have been stalking for more years than I care to remember, we regularly cull 100 to 200 deer per annum, and have never needed a pistol. Most people I know who have hand guns for humane dispatch have them because they can rather than need. So within the law I am sure you should be able to get one , but do you need it Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamey Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 I know vets that use handguns with expanding ammo its not an issue, you would of course make sure their was no one near in case there was a ricochet, just like you would when using any firearm. Todays polymer framed handguns are very light. That's just as well as it seems for some reason when it comes to handguns , some on this forum have the same view as the anti gun lobby civilians shouldn't have them. I couldn't agree more, and this will be your demise when it comes to gun rights. Slowly the nanny and police state erode rights of certain groups, primarily due to the populace voting in idiots to # 10. Gun users must stick together, not just within their respective disciplines as it won't be long before the wolves are at your door. Hollywood also has much to answer for when it comes to handguns. Any properly maintained firearm is no more dangerous than the person holding it. We see far more idiots on a daily basis behind the wheel of their vehicles, which really can cause destruction. Some people just need to plain wake up before it is too late and you don't have any rights left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) Most people I know who have hand guns for humane dispatch have them because they can rather than need. So within the law I am sure you should be able to get one , but do you need it Most people don't need their firearms, should they not have them. ? Some people would have different shotguns for different disciplines, you could make one do. Would you ask someone looking another shotgun for shooting clays. ( Quote. So within the law I am sure you should be able to get one , but do you need it. ) Or does your view just apply to handguns. ? Edited December 7, 2014 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Most people don't need their firearms, should they not have them. ? Some people would have different shotguns for different disciplines, you could make one do. Would you ask someone looking another shotgun for shooting clays. ( Quote. So within the law I am sure you should be able to get one , but do you need it. ) Or does your view just apply to handguns. ? +1 Too many self-righteous shooters on this forum methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 I have been stalking for more years than I care to remember, we regularly cull 100 to 200 deer per annum, and have never needed a pistol. Most people I know who have hand guns for humane dispatch have them because they can rather than need. So within the law I am sure you should be able to get one , but do you need it Doc I can see your point, but I have firearms because I want them, not because I need them. All I have to show to satisfy current legislation, is 'good reason', but there is a difference between 'good reason' and need. A copper once asked a mate of mine why he wanted a bike which was capable of travelling at more than twice the legal speed limit, and my mate just replied, 'cos I can'. Summed it up nicely I thought. I have all my firearms for the same reason; I don't have a handgun for the simple reason I can't......Well not legally anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 More like not esay legally, since you can get one for humane dispatch but the police will put all sorts of barriers in place to stop you getting one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 +1 Too many self-righteous shooters on this forum methinks. Get a grip lad most on here have said he is entitled to one. does he need one, thats up to him I could have dedicated night vision guns on all calibre's, a 410 a hand gun, an 8 bore and good knows what else but I don't have them because I don't need them I have 4 rifles that all get used and 3 shotguns that all get used. so why would I go and buy something I don't need or use, Just because I can If you want a firearm and are entitled to it I have no problems with people getting them, from the question asked I would spend my money on something other than a hand gun for humane dispatch. If I could target shoot I would have a collection of hand guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 My comment wasn't meant for you it was in general at the intolerant attitudes I have experienced on this forum. If you support handgun owenrship then that is good of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 +1 Too many self-righteous shooters on this forum methinks. Also if they keep going with this you should not get one as I don't need one routine soon it will morf to ban 270s as I have a 308 and don't see the need for a 270!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Get a grip lad most on here have said he is entitled to one. does he need one, thats up to him I could have dedicated night vision guns on all calibre's, a 410 a hand gun, an 8 bore and good knows what else but I don't have them because I don't need them I have 4 rifles that all get used and 3 shotguns that all get used. so why would I go and buy something I don't need or use, Just because I can I see what people have posted, and they are implying people only want a handgun to show off not because they need one. If it was a rifle there would be no do you need it questions. People are questioning need because its a handgun and are falling for the anti gun and government evil handguns line, its just another firearm. PS The post in the quoit was a question. Would you ask someone looking another shotgun for shooting clays. ( Quote. So within the law I am sure you should be able to get one , but do you need it. ) Or does your view just apply to handguns. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Not at all what they are saying is how often when stalking do you get up close and personal enough to use a handgun? Personally I've never had an instance I could use one, you either have a mobile beast or one that is immobile and the easiest option is a second shot. If it is that immobile and really on its last legs and you can get right up to it then a knife is what most use. The only instances I can think of are potentially car accident victims but then you could use a humane killer or bolt gun but for some reason most who want a handgun don't want a bolt gun.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Not at all what they are saying is how often when stalking do you get up close and personal enough to use a handgun. That is what it sounds like to me . Must admit i know a couple of folk wi ( 1 and do think it is because they want one/impress their mates rather than a real need.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 If hand guns are such an essential piece of kit why do the contential trackers not use them instead of lugging there rifles around, some of these teams are tracking wounded game for 10+km's throu tough terrain with the hound on a leash, i'm sure if a hand gun was the tool for the job they would not drag there rifle round with them, would be a lot easier. The OP has never answered wether he has a decent trained tracking dog? How many deer that are fairly mobile are u actually managing to track by hand alone? I honestly counldnae give a stuff about people wanting handguns or not, but when u actually speak to most who have them or full time pro stalkers the actual ammount of time they need 1 is tiny and most can't see a reason for 1. If u honestly have 1 great go for it. Not a cheap tool for the ammount of use it will get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 If the law says you can have one then you can have one. Thats it really, any more that that is just obstruction on the part of the FEO really speaking. We had the same situation with long barrelled pistols, lots of obstruction and negativity. Its not up to them at the end of the day. There was a bloke shooting a .38 revolver on the Melville range at bisley last year, and it was a full six shot S&W. I was a bit suprised so I asked him how come he had it. His reply was he got it for stalking and smirked. If its legal its legal, theres no such thing as a bit legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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