bobt Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 This is simply typical of the type of gross exaggeration generated in response to suggestions of arming law abiding people, but to come from someone whom I'm assuming knows what applying for a certificate entails, just beggars belief. I agree, it aint going to happen, despite the fact the police can't even protect themselves let alone anyone else, but who, in their right mind is ever going to suggest arming football hooligans, drug crazed smack heads and psychopaths? Seriously, get a grip FM. That's all very well but how do you discriminate in todays free society?... Its not gross exaggeration at all...trouble is there a quite a few who think that because they go out blasting seven shades out of everything at the weekend it qualifies them to uphold national security. If any one wants to be a Law abiding citizen and wants to carry a fire arm either move to America or join the Army. None of us has a clue what goes on behind the scenes but since the actions of a couple of radicals we are now all experts on National Security. I hope to God there is never any chance of civilians be granted rights to bear arms in this country...its what makes it great. Lets leave it to the experts..they know what they are doing...certainly don't want Charles Bronson and his like on the streets around here. +1 thats bang on That's bang on paranoia...that's what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 me too , all the governing bodies and branches of the law DO NOT like members of the public having firearms and the more powers they get the more we are likely to come under scrutiny to see what else they can impose on us or worse still take away from us as they have previously . How do arrive at that sweeping conclusion.... has Dave, Nick and the Lord Chief Justice told you personally.....Fundamentally you are missing the point... members of the public do not have fire arms unless they show a genuine need and pass a very rigorous application procedure.. No need for paranoia or panic just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I honestly can't believe that some people think this is a good idea!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 That's all very well but how do you discriminate in todays free society?...I'm not advocating arming the masses, but if i were wouldn't it be done more or less on the same basis it is now? Its not gross exaggeration at all...It is FM; you know as well as I that it's used to shout down into silence anyone who makes such a suggestion in an attempt to suggest to others that what has been proposed is worthy of derision, which in turn leads to further debate of the subject being stifled. trouble is there a quite a few who think that because they go out blasting seven shades out of everything at the weekend it qualifies them to uphold national security.That may be so, but it still shouldn't disqualify the topic being debated. The entire question of arming the police or public will become moot if and when the suicide bombings start; there's no legislation on earth which can cater for that. If any one wants to be a Law abiding citizen and wants to carry a fire arm either move to America or join the Army. But if you're in America or the Army you wont be in a position to help your friends and family if and when the time comes. None of us has a clue what goes on behind the scenes but since the actions of a couple of radicals we are now all experts on National Security. According to you, your friend at GCHQ Cheltenham has a clue, and I get the impression has told you, but we 'wouldn't believe it' apparently. I hope to God there is never any chance of civilians be granted rights to bear arms in this country...its what makes it great. I think there's a bit more to it than that, but 'run away and hide' as official advice isn't exactly what made Britain Great either. If this is the best we can do then the terrorists have won. Lets leave it to the experts..they know what they are doing...That remains to be seen, although I can't deny they're certainly in the best position to know. No doubt the experts in France think so too. What happened there then? certainly don't want Charles Bronson and his like on the streets around here. There you go again......Charles Bronson was an actor, but we certainly don't want terrorists and their like on the streets around here. Oops...they already are. We should get some experts onto this right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowdy Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Totally agree!! Can I also add that we talk about "freedom" or "equality", but when we look at people like these gunmen or these hate clerics, how many of us think they deserve freedom, equality or the ability to exercise their human rights? I think most people would say they don't deserve any of this. Unfortunately, like anything in life, the minority spoil it for the majority, and if this is a case where I have to give up my freedom to stop others abusing theirs then I'm willing to do that. Best just sell your guns now and start kniting if you are willing to give up your rights and privileges for the good of others then because they will let you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastiebap Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 The Government are using this as an excuse to further impinge on the liberties of all citizens, if we've nothing to hide then it's not unreasonable to allow the state to place cameras in our homes to watch us, just in case, and sure if we're doing wrong we've nothing to hide. Successive governments have created these problems, they have allowed these hatemongers to spread their cancer throughout our society and have failed to act for fear of being called racist or phobic. This is a war and these people need eliminated, let not forget what happened in France wasn't isolated, 10 years ago 52 people were murdered on the streets of London, 2 years ago Lee Rigby was beheaded during the day on a London street. Whats been done? Nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Its not gross exaggeration at all...trouble is there a quite a few who think that because they go out blasting seven shades out of everything at the weekend it qualifies them to uphold national security. some im surprised are allowed to shoot clays let alone uphold national security but they can dream of a gun and a badge. thankfully it wont happen. Edited January 15, 2015 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 The security services already know who these people are, they are already monitoring their communications. Once their contacts have been identified, they should all be 'disappeared'. I'm sure if MI5 etc don't have the capability to make that happen, the CIA would be glad to help. The bad guys leave their houses one day and no-one ever sees them again. Same as those who are abroad being trained as terrorists, they disappear when they try to get back into the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 The security services already know who these people are, they are already monitoring their communications. Once their contacts have been identified, they should all be 'disappeared'. I'm sure if MI5 etc don't have the capability to make that happen, the CIA would be glad to help. The bad guys leave their houses one day and no-one ever sees them again. Same as those who are abroad being trained as terrorists, they disappear when they try to get back into the country. I'm sure the likelihood of this happening increases each time one of these terrorist attacks occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 some im surprised are allowed to shoot clays let alone uphold national security but they can dream of a gun and a badge. thankfully it wont happen. Don't forget there are many thousands of people in this country who think the same of you, simply because you like, and own, guns. As far as they're concerned you're a nutter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) For those against, can you tell me/us what information exactly you don't want the government to have? And then stop to think about that list and tell me what isn't already out there on the internet? Unless, you are a person who lives in a cardboard box, gets paid in cash, puts that cash under the bed and only pays in cash, all our details are already out there spread across multiple/countless places or organisations. I'm trying to think of anything I haven't already sent out into the abyss that the government would want to store.....Name, address, bank details, car details, where I eat, where I fly to, who my wife is, the names of my children, the list goes on and on. Are we just saying the government are useless and shoddy but everyone else we trust? Edited January 15, 2015 by Cosd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Its not about what information I don't want them to have, its based on principle and a concern to where such powers might lead. A friend of mine brought up an excellent point the other day about the matter. What if, in the not too distant future, we end up with a government of substantial right leanings? Its not impossible, its not even that unlikely the way UK politics are going. What if they decide they don't like a certain group of people? What if they decide homosexuals are bad for society? You may laugh and call it a mad conspiracy theory but its already happened in Russia, its a public persecution for anyone of that persuasion. What if said government used the power that you voted to give them to start tracking down and persecuting those people? It could be any social minority, for almost any reason. A small trickle can lead to a big flood. History repeats itself, and its our duty as decent human beings to stop as many atrocities as we can, preferably before they start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 For those against, can you tell me/us what information exactly you don't want the government to have? Any of it!! What I do as long as not illegal is none of their goddamn business. Surprised at the amount of sheeple on here. Supposedly willing to fight to the death for their rights to own guns, but happy to hand their liberty over with barely a whimper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Any of it!! What I do as long as not illegal is none of their goddamn business. Surprised at the amount of sheeple on here. Supposedly willing to fight to the death for their rights to own guns, but happy to hand their liberty over with barely a whimper. +1 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Any of it!! What I do as long as not illegal is none of their goddamn business. Surprised at the amount of sheeple on here. Supposedly willing to fight to the death for their rights to own guns, but happy to hand their liberty over with barely a whimper. Good argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 For those against, can you tell me/us what information exactly you don't want the government to have? And then stop to think about that list and tell me what isn't already out there on the internet? Do you want a government to have access to the email / text messages / phone calls of anyone that might ever oppose them? I've said 'a government' instead of 'the government' because we might have, for example, an extreme right / left / religious fundamentalist government in the future and once this privacy is given up it's gone forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Do you want a government to have access to the email / text messages / phone calls of anyone that might ever oppose them? I've said 'a government' instead of 'the government' because we might have, for example, an extreme right / left / religious fundamentalist government in the future and once this privacy is given up it's gone forever. I hear what you're saying, but my point still stands. You are already trusting that information with your service providers, most of which keep all that information in off shore, usually very poor countries where people on meagre salaries would walk on hot coals for a fiver. Why do we trust these companies more than any government that is likely to be in power in England? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I hear what you're saying, but my point still stands. You are already trusting that information with your service providers, most of which keep all that information in off shore, usually very poor countries where people on meagre salaries would walk on hot coals for a fiver. Why do we trust these companies more than any government that is likely to be in power in England? So, you're suggesting that because that information may be available via illegal means, we may as well give the government legal access to it. I'd suggest that's a flawed argument. Just because someone can break into and steal my car doesn't mean I might just as well leave the keys in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I have a friend who works for GCHQ in Cheltenham.... You wouldn't believe what they can do already and do ! wonder if they have ever heard of the Official Secrets Act Edited January 15, 2015 by spanj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 perhaps the events in Belgium that have just prevented a "grand scale atrocity" may be proof snooping works KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 That's all very well but how do you discriminate in todays free society?... Its not gross exaggeration at all...trouble is there a quite a few who think that because they go out blasting seven shades out of everything at the weekend it qualifies them to uphold national security. If any one wants to be a Law abiding citizen and wants to carry a fire arm either move to America or join the Army. None of us has a clue what goes on behind the scenes but since the actions of a couple of radicals we are now all experts on National Security. I hope to God there is never any chance of civilians be granted rights to bear arms in this country...its what makes it great. Lets leave it to the experts..they know what they are doing...certainly don't want Charles Bronson and his like on the streets around here. That's bang on paranoia...that's what it is. What, not even your mate in GCHQ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 perhaps the events in Belgium that have just prevented a "grand scale atrocity" may be proof snooping works KW indeed, snoop away, they can read my emails any time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) wonder if they have ever heard of the Official Secrets Act Yes he's signed it so have I when I worked on the complex. Nothings been divulged that isn't n the public domain. I had to have a security check when carrying out a high level defence contract a few years ago.. I had several interviews and an in depth profile analysis... I cant tell you what they already knew about me and my affairs but it was rather an eye opener.. To this day I just don't know where they got some of the personal information from without talking to my immediate family. B) Edited January 15, 2015 by Fisherman Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 To this day I just don't know where they got some of the personal information from without talking to my immediate family. B) profiled you via your occasional pigeon watch rant KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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