Tried (and failed) shooting high pigeons

[ShropshireSam]

Have been watching a large flock of pigeons (500+) either in a rape field and a neighboring small copse of very tall poplar trees for a few weeks now. There appearance is a bit hit and miss but I noted that after we shot the wood for pheasants a stream of pigeons would return to the wood after about half an hour. I tested this again on Friday and appeared to work. The birds moved off to another bigger wood another field away and then returned in a steady stream. I returned on Saturday, moved the birds off the field and out the wood and then found a good spot in the wood with a good gap in front of me. Nothing for half an hour and I wondered if they would return. First few returned and then a nice steady stream. Unfortunately I could not hit them. These poplars are really high, I judged the birds to be about 50 yards, and although I tried a range of lead I struggled to hit any of them. I finished a box of Express Pigeon 30g No. 6 without hitting a bird. I even had 4 shots at pigeons sat in the trees and didn't drop them. I returned to my normal decoy shell (Eley First 28g No. 7.5) and managed to drop three from another 25 shells.

 

After this poor show I headed to a roost shoot where I was in a "normal wood" with a mixture of scots pine and oak. Didn't get much action as most pigeons came over in two large flocks but managed to shoot much better with nine shot (7 picked) from 18 shots which restored my faith in my ability to shoot within the 30 yard range.

 

So before I try this high wood again I will get some practice at some high clays, put in tighter chokes (I was using half) and find some better shells for this range...any recommendations??

[Essex Keeper]

Dark storm 6

[silver pigeon 3]

I would tighten the chokes as it may have been the birds were getting a through gaps in the pattern, personally I would go up to 5's as well. Good luck

[motty]

Just practise high birds. Don't worry too much about shot size. Even a size 7 can take care of 50 yard pigeons.

Edited February 9, 2015 by motty

[JDog]

An honest post. Others who had done the same might not have described their foray in this way.

 

Sadly I have no magic advice for you as I have never hit a pigeon as high as the ones you describe.

[pigeon controller]

Can you not put a decoy pattern in front of the wood to make them loose height so they are not so challenging . I agree a good honest post.

[subsonicnat]

Lead should really not be observed to my way of shooting now.

Have changed 12 months ago to a new style of shooting.

I cannot comment too much as people are all different..

Belly,Beak,Bang comes to mind, But having said which it is a nice Rhyme, But to me the First Criterior is You Must Pass Through the CENTRE of the Bird..

If you swing through the bird and look at a small GAP in front of the bird, as long as you maintain that small GAP and have swung accurately through the centre of bird, Stare at that GAP,

(AND MAINTAIN IT).. Practice as you watch the birds going over, or in the street doesn't matter.

And get used to doing it,,,You will find you are swinging faster,and less likely to stop Swinging.

My way now, and it works for me..

Best of luck.

[bakerboy]

A perhaps silly solution, but I find it sometimes works.

 

Do you wear a baseball cap? or other large brimmed cap?

 

If so, turn your cap around; this will do two things, firstly lower your i.q. by 25%, secondly may stop you lifting your head from the stock/comb to see the target.

If you try this, wear a mask to cover your face.

Just a suggestion, but worth giving a try.

Problems are overcome by experimenting.

 

Terry

Edited February 9, 2015 by bakerboy

[lakeside1000]

Lead should really not be observed to my way of shooting now.

Have changed 12 months ago to a new style of shooting.

I cannot comment too much as people are all different..

Belly,Beak,Bang comes to mind, But having said which it is a nice Rhyme, But to me the First Criterior is You Must Pass Through the CENTRE of the Bird..

If you swing through the bird and look at a small GAP in front of the bird, as long as you maintain that small GAP and have swung accurately through the centre of bird, Stare at that GAP,

(AND MAINTAIN IT).. Practice as you watch the birds going over, or in the street doesn't matter.

And get used to doing it,,,You will find you are swinging faster,and less likely to stop Swinging.

My way now, and it works for me..

Best of luck.

+1, this is my preferred method , I know it as 'sustained lead', I have used kent velocity 6's for the last year and regularly taken birds out to 60 yards, ( paced out and confirmed for my own amusement), I find the hardest shot for me is the overhead high bird as this is the most unnatural gun mount position and the easiest to lose concentration as you try to swing with the bird, before wasting several more boxes of cartridges it might be an idea to find a clay range with a high tower and get some decent instruction, as for missing sitting birds even at 50 yards , shot passing through a trees branches will be deflected and create large 'holes ' in the pattern, its 50 / 50 whether you hit or not ,

Just go back to basics, check your gun mount is right, swing with the bird but keep swinging after you pull the trigger, many people stop at the point of firing and shoot behind the bird,try to avoid panic or snap shots when you see the bird late, then point and shoot without getting through the bird, I was taught by an old gamekeeper when I was 15, 52 years later I still miss birds but can recognise my own faults and try to correct them as I shoot, If you get a friend who shoots to watch you as you attempt the high birds he may see faults you are not able to see in the heat of the moment, best of luck with your future shooting, hope some of this will help,

[subsonicnat]

+1, this is my preferred method , I know it as 'sustained lead', I have used kent velocity 6's for the last year and regularly taken birds out to 60 yards, ( paced out and confirmed for my own amusement), I find the hardest shot for me is the overhead high bird as this is the most unnatural gun mount position and the easiest to lose concentration as you try to swing with the bird, before wasting several more boxes of cartridges it might be an idea to find a clay range with a high tower and get some decent instruction, as for missing sitting birds even at 50 yards , shot passing through a trees branches will be deflected and create large 'holes ' in the pattern, its 50 / 50 whether you hit or not ,

Just go back to basics, check your gun mount is right, swing with the bird but keep swinging after you pull the trigger, many people stop at the point of firing and shoot behind the bird,try to avoid panic or snap shots when you see the bird late, then point and shoot without getting through the bird, I was taught by an old gamekeeper when I was 15, 52 years later I still miss birds but can recognise my own faults and try to correct them as I shoot, If you get a friend who shoots to watch you as you attempt the high birds he may see faults you are not able to see in the heat of the moment, best of luck with your future shooting, hope some of this will help,

 

0

Well written, Old age has treaty you kindly Sir.

"Sustained Lead Method," Could have saved me a lot off typing.lol).

[JDog]

I forgot to mention in my post that your estimate of the height of those birds may be wrong and they may have been further away than you thought.

[subsonicnat]

Another one for said POSTER.

Lamp posts are a Hundred Yards apart, try walking down the street, Have a GUESS at "MARKED"distances as you walk along, amazing how quickly you get to learn distances.

And whiles away a boring walk as well.lol

[bode.boden]

I am going to try some of the advice given here buy you good people might improve my shooting I like reading other people's posts never no wot good tips u can pick up

[cocknee]

I bet you weren't missing them in front.

[JDog]

I bet you weren't missing them in front.

 

I bet you weren't missing them in front.

As you know 32m is my upper limit.

[ShropshireSam]

Thanks for all the advice and comments. I tried various methods including maintained lead but the three I hit were when I increased the speed of my swing through...but could not get this consistent...but this was probably in part due to lack of shot density at that height with the cartridge and choke I was using.

 

bakerboy - I do wear a baseball cap but no issues with other shots so not aware of an issue.

 

JDog - I was aware that some birds were definately higher as noticable difference in apparent size and the ones I hit were definately within the tree canopy whereas lots of other were above it.

 

I will get some tuition on some high clays, get some better "high bird" cartridges and go for full choke. Just hope I get another opprtunity like last Saturday and manage a decent kill/shot ratio

[cocknee]

As you know 32m is my upper limit.

Lol

[roostshooter1]

My advice would be just to practice and practice and practice some more i once shot with an old boy who used an old side by side with 28 gram size 6 2.5 inch cartridges and he would knock high birds down as easy as standard height birds . You did sort of answer your own question when you said the 3 you hit were when you sped up your swing so that would be your next point to adress on your next trip hope this helps ben

 

Ps you could try to put up a target board and check your pattern with your choke and cartridge choice that would help to eliminate any doubts on that side and just leave you to concentrate on your shooting thanks ben

[fortune]

About the sitting in trees bit. >> I have noticed that when I decoy shoot ( I always try to set up my hide about 25 > 30 paces away from a tree) that when birds flight into the tree, that I have to use 5's to knock them down. usually I use 6's > 71/2 of flying birds and they are chopped down no problems at all but when they land in said tree that if I use the 6 > 71/2's a cloud of feathers will be seen but the birds quite often fly off into the distance sometimes falling in the field or I have even seen them land in a tree across the other side of the field and I have picked them up at the end of the day. 5's drop them out of the tree when sitting.

Edited February 9, 2015 by fortune

[Wilts#Dave]

I'm not so sure full choke is the answer to see you killing them consistently, if you were actually on the birds with half choke you'd more than likely be at least winging/clipping a lot more than you did rather than missing altogether.....they may just be out of range. Hitting high birds takes a lot more skill than the average 30 yard decoyer. If you can't pull those high pigeons down with 32g 6 shot and half choke I'd spend your money on more practice rather than anything else 👍

Oh, and we all have our off days too, if you're not used to shhoting pigeons like that I wouldn't expect an amazing average. Frustrating when they're not coming down though!!

Edited February 10, 2015 by Wilts#Dave

[bakerboy]

Thanks for all the advice and comments. I tried various methods including maintained lead but the three I hit were when I increased the speed of my swing through...but could not get this consistent...but this was probably in part due to lack of shot density at that height with the cartridge and choke I was using.

 

bakerboy - I do wear a baseball cap but no issues with other shots so not aware of an issue.

 

JDog - I was aware that some birds were definately higher as noticable difference in apparent size and the ones I hit were definately within the tree canopy whereas lots of other were above it.

 

I will get some tuition on some high clays, get some better "high bird" cartridges and go for full choke. Just hope I get another opprtunity like last Saturday and manage a decent kill/shot ratio

On high targets the brim of the cap can obscure the target causing the shooter to lift their head to locate the target, therefore not looking where you are pointing.

As with all other advice given, try before dismissing.

Edited February 10, 2015 by bakerboy

[lakeside1000]

On high targets the brim of the cap can obscure the target causing the shooter to lift their head to locate the target, therefore not looking where you are pointing.

As with all other advice given, try before dismissing.

I agree , when shooting clays there is one target moving in a fixed direction ,target acquisition is straight forward and the peak of a cap is not normally a problem, but out on the pigeons you may have targets arriving from many directions at once and full and clear field of vision is paramount to select the right target , so anything that may block out some of that especially large rim hats or peaked caps could cause a problem, I wear a cap for clays to protect my face from incoming clay fragments having been hit several times, but in the field I only wear a face mask ( and tight fitting woolly hat if its cold ).

My main problem with high overhead birds is getting old I have lower back problems and simply have lost that flexibility in my back to allow me to swing confidently with the bird, do you think if I swap my shooting seat for a sun lounger I could shoot from the fully reclined position, problem is I would keep falling asleep,

[bakerboy]

In old age, something that I am well and truly into, my seating recommendation is bum above the knees.

When standing is required it is much easier, and the base of the seat should be reasonably firm to give you something to push against.

Edited February 10, 2015 by bakerboy

[kippylawkid]

 

In old age, something that I am well and truly into, my seating recommendation is bum above the knees.

When standing is required it is much easier, and the base of the seat should be reasonably firm to give you something to push against.

Very good point Bakerboy. Regardless of age, having your backside above your knees keeps your back and shoulders upright and straight, enabling better gun mounting.

.

[superspark]

A good indication that you are using the wrong choke for that range if they are not coming down sat in the tree. At that range try full choke and possibly 32g five's. Depending on the speed that they are flying try shooting to miss, another words, give they plenty of lead.

I have a feeling your shot pattern is falling well short of your pigeon and should it actually get there in time, have to many holes in your pattern that the bird can fly through.

I suffered this very problem with high flying rooks over trees. Changing chokes and shot size worked well but felt strange shooting so far out in front. It's trial and error mate and see what works for you, best of luck.