TaxiDriver Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Last couple of mornings I have a bloody great fox coming after my chickens in the garden around 5.30am, I could have him with my 22lr ? Would sub sonics suffice ? Presumably a headshot for humane despatch, but whereabouts in head would be best ? I'm not proposing to make a habit of this, merely to deal with a specific threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 yes just do it assuming you have an open ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Side on .....between eye and ear hole Quartering to .... Eye Quartering away ....... ear hole Sniffing ground facing you...... Between eye brows as it were May be if u nip out half hour before and leave some tinned dog food in an appropriate place he'll stay still long enough in a safe place Good luck lets us know how you get on Ps try a couple of practice shots at that range because with a 50 yard zero you'll be well out at 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 ............ Ps try a couple of practice shots at that range because with a 50 yard zero you'll be well out at 20 Sage advice IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 If you not in a built up area use the 12 gauge.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad1 Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Try to get a bit of height ie from a upstairs window to make it a better back stop too .... have some practice shots at something to so you know exactly where the rounds are grouping if you are aiming dead on .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted April 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Hmmm so much for that plan, No Open Ticket !! Ideal plan would have been from upstairs bedroom window where we spotted him from this AM Change of plan, Anyone near Chelmsford got a live catch trap I Could have a loan of please ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throttlemonkey Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 yes just do it assuming you have an open ticketDo you need an open ticket to shoot over your own land? A question I havnt been able to reconcile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Do you need an open ticket to shoot over your own land? A question I havnt been able to reconcile My FAC clearly states the land needs to be approved (mine is, as it happens!) so shooting in a garden would not be legal, as far as I can tell, without an open licence. Using a silenced .22LR can be perfectly effective - I'm sure someone will link to the Roy Lupton video where he does just that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted April 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Do you need an open ticket to shoot over your own land? A question I havnt been able to reconcile I believe yes you would, (based on the following reasoning) When you apply for fac for whatever calibre it's because you have a need for a tool to do a job on a particular piece of land (yours or somebody else's') Providing you meet the criteria to be judged suitable to hold an fac for the calibre you've requested, Your certificate might then be granted for say ...a 22lr for rabbit control at the site/land on which your fac application as based upon. If you want to use that firearm elsewhere, you need to ask to have that additional land added to your fac permissions, this will happen if the land has already been cleared as a suitable place to use a 22lr, or more slowly if it has to be inspected. Once you've held an fac 5 years (Essex) they will consider removing these conditions, giving you what's revered to as an Open licence, this effectively means they are allowing you solely to decide where it is safe to use. You either need an open ticket to decide if it's safe to shoot on your own land, OR, that the land has been checked and cleared as suitable. Just because you own it doesn't make it acceptable (according to your FLO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) A couple of points: I had a chat with FEO (south Wales) on this sort of thing a while back: If you don't have an open ticket you cannot shoot anywhere that has not been cleared by an FEO - whether you own it, have permission or not. A (moderated) shottie would be legal however. As long as you do not cause the public alarm. I have my .22 LR zeroed at 48m using RWS hollow points. The 'second zero' (calculated on Hawke BRC2)(the closer one where the bullet passes upwards through the line of sight) is 16.8m. At 20m it will be 0.49cm high. I like to have a 1" MBR. In Imperial measures that gives 1/2" low at just over 10yds, 'on' at 18 1/2yds, 1/2" high at 35yds, 'on' at 52yds and 1/2" low at just under 60yds. This gives a maximum variation is 1" from 10yds to 60yds. At this range your standard subsonic HP LR will provide a humane dispatch- as long as you place it correctly. So unless you are particularly fortunate, at normal garden distances, you shouldn't have to calculate trajectory too hard. As far as the OP is concerned: his 20~22yrd fox will get a critical headache - if he can get an open license, understanding FEO, or a helpful PW neighbor. Edited April 18, 2015 by Alpha Mule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose man Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) The .22 will do the job perfectly , if you can't do the job perhaps a pal with an open ticket will do it for you . These where all the results of 22 at around 25ish mtr ...These were taken over a week or so earlier in the year Edited April 18, 2015 by moose man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Last couple of mornings I have a bloody great fox coming after my chickens in the garden around 5.30am, I could have him with my 22lr ? Would sub sonics suffice ? Presumably a headshot for humane despatch, but whereabouts in head would be best ? I'm not proposing to make a habit of this, merely to deal with a specific threat. If you haven't got the Open (unrestricted) FAC you can't legally. As for the calibre/ammo, I regularly use 40g HP .22lr in small back gardens, head or chest, they work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 If you haven't got the Open (unrestricted) FAC you can't legally. As for the calibre/ammo, I regularly use 40g HP .22lr in small back gardens, head or chest, they work. This is the answer. Like Dekers, I've shot hundreds in similar situations, chest shots are lethal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 One question from me, do you need the .22 conditioned for Fox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 One question from me, do you need the .22 conditioned for Fox? Shooting in such an enviroment, with the high possibility of police presence, I would say it's imperitive one has fox or AOLQ on ones FAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 One question from me, do you need the .22 conditioned for Fox? Can of worms! I have calibres conditioned for fox, I've challenged this, but they don't class fox as vermin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I have both and an open ticket but my reading of my ticket is that only the.222 is conditioned for Fox. That's why i'm confused hence the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I have both and an open ticket but my reading of my ticket is that only the.222 is conditioned for Fox. That's why i'm confused hence the question. Same as me, my CF's are conditioned for fox, the Rf's weren't, until I moved county, where they conditioned the rimfires, and suggested I could now get rid of my CF's..... Edited April 20, 2015 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Weird isn't it, so many variables between on force and another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Weird isn't it, so many variables between on force and another. And that my friend is the bigest injustice in firearms licensing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 And that my friend is the bigest injustice in firearms licensing. I know what you mean Saying that, West Yorks have always been good with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throttlemonkey Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) My FAC clearly states the land needs to be approved (mine is, as it happens!) so shooting in a garden would not be legal, as far as I can tell, without an open licence. Using a silenced .22LR can be perfectly effective - I'm sure someone will link to the Roy Lupton video where he does just that But could quite legally shoot same fox with a shotgun Edited April 20, 2015 by throttlemonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Just get them shot and stop mithering! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 there are no variables between force just idiots who can't interpret the law they uphold and mugs who believe them 1) Fox and Vermin are not mutually exclusive, vermin has never been classified in law by anyone The HO guidance is clear on this: "13.19 The term “game” covers certain birds and animals that may be shot for food and sport. These include pheasant, partridge, grouse, ptarmigan and ground game (rabbits and hares). The term “vermin” is not defined in law, but it may include species that cause damage to crops, game, livestock or property such as fox, rabbit, mink, stoat, weasel, brown rat, and grey squirrel; as well as some birds, such as wood pigeon and corvids such as rook and crow. Whilst species including wood pigeon and corvids are regarded as pests 108 Guide on Firearms Licensing Law or vermin, they are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, and therefore can only be shot under the relevant general licence. It is important to note that animals such as deer, wild boar etc are not viewed as vermin. Under schedule 6 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, certain species such as wild cats, pine martens, badgers and otters may not be shot with any automatic or semi-automatic firearm, or killed, or taken by other prohibited methods under section 11(2) of the 1981 Act. These species may be pests under certain circumstances but may only be killed under licence (see also chapter 14). Guidance on foxes can be found in paragraphs 13.25 and 13.26. teh calibre is clearly stated for vermin: 13.20 Although not set out in legislation, the rifle cartridges most commonly used to shoot ground game and vermin are .17 rimfire (HMR & Mach 2) and .22 rimfire. More powerful centrefire cartridges, such as .17 Remington and .22 Hornet are also suitable for ground game and vermin, and may be considered if the applicant also intends to shoot fox to avoid possession of a further gun. Expanding ammunition may be granted for shooting vermin. 2) The HO guidance puts the law squarely in the hand of the user and is clear on .22 on fox: 13.25 Although not set out in legislation, common rifle cartridges considered suitable for the shooting of foxes range from .17 Remington, and .22 Hornet to .22 -250 and .220 Swift, though there is a wide range of suitable similar calibres commercially available. In windy areas, where heavier bullets aid accurate shooting, or if applicants wish to use one rifle for shooting both deer and foxes, they may choose a rifle in 6mm (.243/.244) or 6.5mm (.264) calibre. .22 Rimfires are generally considered as having insufficient muzzle energy to be used against foxes in most circumstances. However, these could be suitable for use at short range by experienced persons, and may be permitted in certain situations such as around farm buildings or paddocks. It is for the operator to ensure that the quarry species are shot at the appropriate range with the appropriate ammunition to achieve a humane kill It seems pretty bloody clear to me No FEO has the right to redefine that which has not been defined or restrict use of a firearm for something clearly stated in the HO Guidance If they want to they must apply in writing to the Home Office and sit on the naughty boy's step to explain why they know more than the Home Office!!! i shoot foxes with ,22lr and have done for years Subs head shots, bib shots 17ft to 70yds know your anatomy, don't rush the shot and you will have a very quick result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.