Cosd Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Calling the PW massif for some expertise.... I'm looking at buying a house which has a large (35'sh feet) tree on the lawn. The tree has a 9" wall built around it (cosmetic, circular approx 1.5m in diameter) which is all broken by the roots at the base of the tree; I'm not bothered about this wall, and I can happily get rid of it completely. My concern is that a root has gone under a retaining wall and lifted a very small section of the patio (approx. 2 square feet, so this needs addressing firstly so no further damage is done and secondly so it doesn't affect the house or the retaining wall. Ideally I'd like the tree root problem sorted, tree trimmed down in size and left, but if it has to go then it will go. My questions are this: Providing necessary permission is acquired and professionally done, can roots be cut on a tree? If roots can be cut or tree needs to be removed completely, what are the costs involved? never dealt with trees so have no idea what costs are like. Thanks in advance Cos Edited May 13, 2015 by Cosd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Most important question : how far is the tree from the house ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 If the tree is 35ft tall you could expect the roots to be as long under ground reaching the patio/house. If the patio is being effected, is that at the back of house where you enter garden? Would a survey not pick up on possible issues the tree could cause? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckandswing Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Things to also consider are the type of tree, the geology the house is built on, its proximity to the house and if the tree has a tree preservation order (TPO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) If you can let me know the species and diameter at breast height I can give you a good indication of the nominal radius for the roots. But as a rule of thumb, you can assume that the root spread will be no less than the 'drip zone' of the tree (furthest leaves from stem). Edited May 13, 2015 by 955i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Pruning roots was regularly carried out by householders in exactly this sort of situation. It was intended to prevent/minimise subsidence where a large tree was drawing water away from the house in that one spot thus affecting the regular and even water flow. A house with no trees within say 50 yards will experience rain/drought evenly - add in a big tree and this can cause imbalance and serious cracking/ subsidence. Where the tree is very close and subsidence has occurred occasionally a deep trench is dug out and a wall built to ensure moisture levels not affected. Usually the tree is removed however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 To answer some questions: I don't know the type of tree, I'll have to take a photo. I think the tree has been pruned at some point, so I don't know what the natural drip zone would be The tree is about 20/25 feet away from the house The tree is in the back garden I have just copied a photo of the tree from Rightmove. The tree is the one with the wall around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Too far away to do any serious damage to the foundations of the house imo even with seasonal desiccation. Rather than cut the roots a root barrier would be the better solution You can then leave the tree and enjoy it. When was the property built and was it built in compliance with NHBC guidelines. If it was reasonably recent the tree would have been there sometime before and the foundation design would have taken account of its proximity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Too far away to do any serious damage to the foundations of the house imo even with seasonal desiccation. Rather than cut the roots a root barrier would be the better solution You can then leave the tree and enjoy it. When was the property built and was it built in compliance with NHBC guidelines. If it was reasonably recent the tree would have been there sometime before and the foundation design would have taken account of its proximity. One corner of the house is actually to the left of the tree as you look at the picture. That picture is a part of the garden taken across the back of the house if that makes sense, it's not looking away from the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 To answer some questions: I don't know the type of tree, I'll have to take a photo. It's the sort that'd make good logs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Looks like a beech from the shape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Could it be mountain ash? we had one in the front garden, taller than the house and around 4 metres from it. In previous years 2 of the same trees in our street had blown over when we had some big winds. This tree was leaning towards the house and would certainly have killed us if it had gone over. No protection order on it so got an arboreist in (spelling) who took it down for £380 which I thought was an absolute bargain. When he got to chest high down the trunk he showed me the extent of the internal rot......around 30% from the centre out, externally the tree looked ok. Best 380 sovs I ever spent.. Edited May 13, 2015 by Sha Bu Le Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 One corner of the house is actually to the left of the tree as you look at the picture. That picture is a part of the garden taken across the back of the house if that makes sense, it's not looking away from the house. So do you know when the property was built. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Chop it and log it if it's a concern. If no trees no problem with roots. You could plant a smaller tree in its place with a dwarf rootstock so it won't get big enough to be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Ur best bet is to get 2 or 3 different arborists out to have a look, make sure qualifeid and insured possibly a member of AA, arborist assoc. Hard to tell from the photo looks a long way away for a root to be breaking up that retaining wall/patio, but hard to tell with a photo. Are u sure it is not the tree with the trelice? round it that is affecting the patio? It does look like a beech, possibly been pollarded/topped where it 'V's' 3/4 way up but could be natural too, might be worth asking tree surgeon to have a look at that too, the type of shape even if natural could possibly make it a weak point/joint and looks like a bit of weight above it. Might be worth reducing or even pollarding to that hieght incase it can snap of and damage anything below. But it could be fine imposible to tell from the photo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I would be more concerned about those nasty evergreens in your neighbours garden. Just picture them 20' higher and imagine what their roots are doing to your property (not necessarily the house). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 So do you know when the property was built. ? 23 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Ur best bet is to get 2 or 3 different arborists out to have a look, make sure qualifeid and insured possibly a member of AA, arborist assoc. Hard to tell from the photo looks a long way away for a root to be breaking up that retaining wall/patio, but hard to tell with a photo. Are u sure it is not the tree with the trelice? round it that is affecting the patio? It does look like a beech, possibly been pollarded/topped where it 'V's' 3/4 way up but could be natural too, might be worth asking tree surgeon to have a look at that too, the type of shape even if natural could possibly make it a weak point/joint and looks like a bit of weight above it. Might be worth reducing or even pollarding to that hieght incase it can snap of and damage anything below. But it could be fine imposible to tell from the photo Again, the retaining wall I'm talking about is to the left of the tree as you look at the picture. There is another patio just out of the picture. Edited May 13, 2015 by Cosd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I would be more concerned about those nasty evergreens in your neighbours garden. Just picture them 20' higher and imagine what their roots are doing to your property (not necessarily the house). Ive already got plans to go and ask nicely if they will consider doing something about those! They are actually at the end of their garden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Calling the PW massif for some expertise.... I'm looking at buying a house which has a large (35'sh feet) tree on the lawn. The tree has a 9" wall built around it (cosmetic, circular approx 1.5m in diameter) which is all broken by the roots at the base of the tree; I'm not bothered about this wall, and I can happily get rid of it completely. My concern is that a root has gone under a retaining wall and lifted a very small section of the patio (approx. 2 square feet, so this needs addressing firstly so no further damage is done and secondly so it doesn't affect the house or the retaining wall. Ideally I'd like the tree root problem sorted, tree trimmed down in size and left, but if it has to go then it will go. My questions are this: Providing necessary permission is acquired and professionally done, can roots be cut on a tree? Yes If roots can be cut or tree needs to be removed completely, what are the costs involved? never dealt with trees so have no idea what costs are like. removal would be about 500 Thanks in advance Cos As the house was built in 92 I doubt if they made allowance for the affects of the tree roots as they would do now. If it is a beech it would have the capability to grow to 80ft plus left unchecked. I would be tempted to lop it hard and keep it a sensible size this way the roots wont invade the foundation zone. If you should take it down remember that your foundation would then be at risk of clay heave as the ground reabsorbs moisture taken previously by the tree. This expansion can cause more damage than subsidence. Do you intend to a have home buyers survey done ?. If so ask their advice. If the recommendation is to remove it then renegotiate the price. Don't forget that your house insurance company may not entertain subsidence claims if the risk has been previously identified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) As the house was built in 92 I doubt if they made allowance for the affects of the tree roots as they would do now. If it is a beech it would have the capability to grow to 80ft plus left unchecked. I would be tempted to lop it hard and keep it a sensible size this way the roots wont invade the foundation zone. If you should take it down remember that your foundation would then be at risk of clay heave as the ground reabsorbs moisture taken previously by the tree. This expansion can cause more damage than subsidence. Do you intend to a have home buyers survey done ?. If so ask their advice. If the recommendation is to remove it then renegotiate the price. Don't forget that your house insurance company may not entertain subsidence claims if the risk has been previously identified. Thanks for the the advice FMOut of choice I'd want to keep it but only if I can trim the size. I've already agreed with the seller that should it come up in the structural survey that we will renegotiate the price. Edited May 13, 2015 by Cosd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
400_racer Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Looks like a nice beech. It doesn't look to have been pollarded, but then we cannot quite see the whole tree, and if it has been pruned it must be subtle/well done as it stills looks natural. I'd keep it if you can, they're nice to have and look at. I've never bought a house, but know you should get a survey done before buying. I would have thought this would be part of the survey and tell you if it's causing problems? Never had to do it, but am sure you can put barriers in the way of offending roots if not gone too far. Also, I doubt trimming root extremities in a localised area would cause tree health/structural problems if you wanted to keep it and it was causing problems. If worst came to worst it could be removed altogether. As scotslad says, get 2 or 3 quotes and make sure they're insured, qualified etc. Expect to pay about £500, a lot depends on whether it can be felled and if not how easy it is to climb and dismantle, which also depends on tree health. That doesn't look too bad to climb though. There's no real obstacles in the way that need avoiding with dropped branches/logs and that makes life easier*. Think nice slate roof garages, green houses etc! Also access to the back garden and distance to the tree from the road/driveway will affect quote. Could also be reduced a little or pollarded as another option. See what the survey says if you go for the house and go from there. Looks a nice tree though! Hope that helps a little Ad *edit: though without seeing how close the house really is, it may add more difficulty. Always a bit tricky to tell these things from a pic Edited May 13, 2015 by 400_racer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Looks like a nice beech. It doesn't look to have been pollarded, but then we cannot quite see the whole tree, and if it has been pruned it must be subtle/well done as it stills looks natural. I'd keep it if you can, they're nice to have and look at. I've never bought a house, but know you should get a survey done before buying. I would have thought this would be part of the survey and tell you if it's causing problems? Never had to do it, but am sure you can put barriers in the way of offending roots if not gone too far. Also, I doubt trimming root extremities in a localised area would cause tree health/structural problems if you wanted to keep it and it was causing problems. If worst came to worst it could be removed altogether. As scotslad says, get 2 or 3 quotes and make sure they're insured, qualified etc. Expect to pay about £500, a lot depends on whether it can be felled and if not how easy it is to climb and dismantle, which also depends on tree health. That doesn't look too bad to climb though. There's no real obstacles in the way that need avoiding with dropped branches/logs and that makes life easier*. Think nice slate roof garages, green houses etc! Also access to the back garden and distance to the tree from the road/driveway will affect quote. Could also be reduced a little or pollarded as another option. See what the survey says if you go for the house and go from there. Looks a nice tree though! Hope that helps a little Ad *edit: though without seeing how close the house really is, it may add more difficulty. Always a bit tricky to tell these things from a pic Cheers ADLooks like house purchase is going through since posting this! Tree is completely healthy. A few people have mentioned it being "pollarded" what does that mean? Edited May 13, 2015 by Cosd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Pollarding is a way of managing the trees, basiclly topping them back to a pole (originally was done in place of coppicing so u could graze animals below and still have the timber crop growing unharmed 6-10ft up), but doing it creates weak future growth so have to be continously managed like that aftewards. Quite often see trees in towns pollarded. U'd be better doing a crown reduction rather than a top/pollard as should keep the tree looking natural but taking some weight of the limbs Not sure if most surveyors could accurately access root/tree stuff as can be quite specialised, even some tree surgeons probably would just be giving u best guess. Thats why ur better with someone who has the right qualifications as well as the practical climbng tickets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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