grrclark Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Personally for me marriage is between a man and a woman, what irritates me is if you have that view you get shouted down. Why should you be sorry for having a different view, that goes against the PC populist view. Everyone has a right to their own view on the subject. You're absolutely right, everybody is entitled to their own views and opinions. I guess the issue is if you act according to those views and that goes against the established rights and freedoms of others then it is a problem. The flip side to that is if you have particular rights that allow you to act in a certain way, so the clergy cannot be compelled to marry gay couples as an example. Oddly though the bakers apparently are not allowed to refuse a contract of sale to bake a cake. It is all bit muddled up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) The people in the Republic of Ireland have just voted to legalise gay marriage. That leaves Northern Ireland as the only country / region in the UK where gay marriage is still illegal. Are we behind the times, or should we be happy that we have not went down that road. ? The pope's not going to be a happy bunny. Edited May 23, 2015 by Les*1066 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 While i do think each to there own and personally none of my business so dinae really care. I do think they have to many rights now and people who strongly disagree because of their religious beliefs are in the wrong. Just wseems very 1 sided to me. Just this week u had the cake shop in NI/Belfast? which refused an order as it was promoting gay marriage was found guilty of discrimination, so their christain values mean nothing. Read in the paper that some bird of looose women is getting slated for sticking up for the baker said something along the lines of where do u draw the line on personal values, ie if cake was glorifying ISIS or something There was also a wee B&B many years ago that refused to let 2 men book a double room, while i can see how that would upset the gays, I also felt sorry for the b&b owners often those west coast locals are deep;y religous and very few shops open on a sunday, possibly there kids would have grown up using that room. Does seem to have went to far in some aspects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 While i do think each to there own and personally none of my business so dinae really care. I do think they have to many rights now and people who strongly disagree because of their religious beliefs are in the wrong. Just wseems very 1 sided to me. Just this week u had the cake shop in NI/Belfast? which refused an order as it was promoting gay marriage was found guilty of discrimination, so their christain values mean nothing. Read in the paper that some bird of looose women is getting slated for sticking up for the baker said something along the lines of where do u draw the line on personal values, ie if cake was glorifying ISIS or something There was also a wee B&B many years ago that refused to let 2 men book a double room, while i can see how that would upset the gays, I also felt sorry for the b&b owners often those west coast locals are deep;y religous and very few shops open on a sunday, possibly there kids would have grown up using that room. Does seem to have went to far in some aspects Do you think businesses should be able to discriminate based on gender, race, or religious beliefs too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 While i do think each to there own and personally none of my business so dinae really care. I do think they have to many rights now and people who strongly disagree because of their religious beliefs are in the wrong. Just wseems very 1 sided to me. Just this week u had the cake shop in NI/Belfast? which refused an order as it was promoting gay marriage was found guilty of discrimination, so their christain values mean nothing. Read in the paper that some bird of looose women is getting slated for sticking up for the baker said something along the lines of where do u draw the line on personal values, ie if cake was glorifying ISIS or something There was also a wee B&B many years ago that refused to let 2 men book a double room, while i can see how that would upset the gays, I also felt sorry for the b&b owners often those west coast locals are deep;y religous and very few shops open on a sunday, possibly there kids would have grown up using that room. Does seem to have went to far in some aspects Would i be allowed to refuse to serve a man and a woman who wanted to buy a wedding cake if i was gay and owned a cake shop? And would i be able to run a gay only b and b? The law should apply to all people equally, regardless of race, colour or religious persuasion.I f you don't agree with that then you don't agree with a free and fair society where all are equal under the eyes of the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Do you think businesses should be able to discriminate based on gender, race, or religious beliefs too? That rather depends on how you define descrimination. In the case of the bakers they never said they had a problem with baking a cake for the couple. The bakers simply didn`t want to put a slogan on the cake that went against their own beliefs. Now you could easily argue that the bakers are being discriminated against for their Christian beliefs. If the bakers had been selling cakes that read "All gays/jews/catholics/muslims/whatever should be killed" then they would clearly be promoting hate and obviously that would be wrong. So the question is, whose rights/views are more important. In this particular case, in our secular society the law obviously favours the gay rights activists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 That rather depends on how you define descrimination. In the case of the bakers they never said they had a problem with baking a cake for the couple. The bakers simply didn`t want to put a slogan on the cake that went against their own beliefs. Now you could easily argue that the bakers are being discriminated against for their Christian beliefs. If the bakers had been selling cakes that read "All gays/jews/catholics/muslims/whatever should be killed" then they would clearly be promoting hate and obviously that would be wrong. So the question is, whose rights/views are more important. In this particular case, in our secular society the law obviously favours the gay rights activists. Who's rights count most? simples the shout the loudest we wuz fouled minorities. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carman06 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 I don't understand what the differance is to be honest. It's just a word to describe a couple of people living their life as a unified entity. For some it has religious values for others it doesn't. Makes no differance to me if your LGBT if you want to be linked to someone it's your choice. Happiness is where you find it and no one should be denied the opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Who's rights count most? simples the shout the loudest we wuz fouled minorities. KW Rather simplistic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Rather simplisticAnd unfair if you consider that religious groups have had a disproportional influence on law makers for most of history. It could easily be argued that the law should consider sexual orientation above religious belief as the former, unlike the latter, is not a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 And unfair if you consider that religious groups have had a disproportional influence on law makers for most of history. It could easily be argued that the law should consider sexual orientation above religious belief as the former, unlike the latter, is not a choice. It was more of the argument that the minority that shouts loudest wins, if this were the case why are minorities like gay couples only now getting equal footing under the law. I believe the law should not consider religion or sexual preference in any form,it should simply treat all as equal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 That rather depends on how you define descrimination. In the case of the bakers they never said they had a problem with baking a cake for the couple. The bakers simply didn`t want to put a slogan on the cake that went against their own beliefs. Now you could easily argue that the bakers are being discriminated against for their Christian beliefs. If the bakers had been selling cakes that read "All gays/jews/catholics/muslims/whatever should be killed" then they would clearly be promoting hate and obviously that would be wrong. So the question is, whose rights/views are more important. In this particular case, in our secular society the law obviously favours the gay rights activists. I think what they are saying is that personal beliefs are just that - personal. If you want to run a business, your business has to be agnostic and within the law. A ltd company in particular is an entity in itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 It was more of the argument that the minority that shouts loudest wins, if this were the case why are minorities like gay couples only now getting equal footing under the law. I believe the law should not consider religion or sexual preference in any form,it should simply treat all as equal You are absolutely right on both counts. I shouldn't post after drinking.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 You are absolutely right on both counts. I shouldn't post after drinking.. No worries i am ploughing my way through some whisky the wife bought me today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) I think what they are saying is that personal beliefs are just that - personal. If you want to run a business, your business has to be agnostic and within the law. A ltd company in particular is an entity in itself. The irony though, in this particular case, is that the bakers are essentially agreeing with the current law within the country. However that same legal system that does not acknowledge the right to allow gay couples to marry then prosecutes them (the bakers) for saying we agree with the law and don`t wish to write a slogan that promotes gay marriage. So essentially it`s fine for the government to discriminate but not ok for an individual. Edited May 23, 2015 by Danger-Mouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Not if you're gay. I believe homosexuals should be given the same chance to be just as unhappy as heterosexuals. Bud-um, chaaaa. now that did make me laugh..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 The irony though, in this particular case, is that the bakers are essentially agreeing with the current law within the country. However that same legal system that does not acknowledge the right to allow gay couples to marry then prosecutes them (the bakers) for saying we agree with the law and don`t wish to write a slogan that promotes gay marriage. So essentially it`s fine for the government to discriminate but not ok for an individual. At this moment in time - yes ironic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 The people in the Republic of Ireland have just voted to legalise gay marriage. That leaves Northern Ireland as the only country / region in the UK where gay marriage is still illegal. Are we behind the times, or should we be happy that we have not went down that road. ? As long as it never becomes mandatory. Don't think my piles could take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 If two consenting adults of the same sex want to get married, then fair enough; it's no business of mine and good luck to them. Does it really matter? The thing that annoys me more than anything is the intolerance of others to allow people to live in peace as they choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 To me the main issue in Eire isnt about the rights of individuals but more to do with the Catholic church who are against Homosexuals. Gay marriage effects a tiny group but the catholic church effects almost everyone, this is a massive snub to organised religion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 If two consenting adults of the same sex want to get married, then fair enough; it's no business of mine and good luck to them. Does it really matter? The thing that annoys me more than anything is the intolerance of others to allow people to live in peace as they choose. Very true ...... so long as they don't try imposing it on straight people. They should also not use the Law to force their way of life with test cases on Churches .... shops ... hotels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) To me the main issue in Eire isnt about the rights of individuals but more to do with the Catholic church who are against Homosexuals. Gay marriage effects a tiny group but the catholic church effects almost everyone, this is a massive snub to organised religion How does it affect them? Remember this was a referendum - the country voted for this. Nobody gets to vote on Catholic Church dogma. Edited May 24, 2015 by aris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 How does it affect them? Remember this was a referendum - the country voted for this. Nobody gets to vote on Catholic Church dogma. people have voted against the catholic church doctrine the catholic church is one of the most dominant influences in ireland or it was last time I was in the south Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) I agree with you Island gun The most interesting thing about this result was the remarkably high turnout. Even in rural areas where people have to travel a fair way to their polling stations. And it wasn't a referendum tacked onto another election. Statistically most people aren't gay so wouldn't have had a personal reason for voting yes. Are people in Ireland really that concerned about gay rights, somehow I doubt it So whats really going on? why the high turnout and the high yes vote? This is a backlash, a protest vote against the church and the way it has controlled people's lives over there for so longl A chance to stick one on the old order An old friend of mine, who came from the West of Ireland said when they first got TV over there, which was quite late on, his Dad said to him "Now there is going the be trouble" meaning people would have another source of information. Edited May 24, 2015 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonker Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 I don't agree with it myself, and I may be a bit bias, but I've heard their all Antis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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