Is 14" too short

[Davyo]

Question for the techno's

22 rim fire ,is it right that max velocity occurs at 14 inches? And what's your opinion regarding a 14 inch barrel say over a 16 or 20.

[walshie]

The thinking behind it is that the standard (although there are exceptions) twist rate for a .22lr is 1:16, so a 16" barrel would give the bullet one complete rotation before leaving the muzzle.I don't know where max velocity occurs, but I've read a book that states the optimum length (that was on a Ruger 10/22) is about 12 1/2".

 

I've seen accurate guns that are 14". My personal choice is 16" on my CZ. I wouldn't get too hung up about it.

[mickmep]

pretty sure you'll find all the powder is burnt in the first 9" of the barrel.

my lsr competition gun has a 12 1/2" volquartsen barrel and no problems with accuracy on that.

 

if you're just worried about velocity I found a few web pages when researching mine which gave an indication of the differing velocities for barrel lengths.

[welshwarrior]

No I've seen accurate 22lrs with 12 1/2", 14", 16" etc I've never had velocity issues either mostly tested and used with subsonic ammo.

[Alan Maughan]

The simple answer is no, 14" isn't too short. Even if velocity was down 50-75fps it would make no discernible different to drop at .22lr ranges.

 

The more important question would be is the rifle accurate? as has already been said, you can have an accurate rifle with barrels from 12" to 24" and its accuracy that matters most with a .22LR, not small differences in bullet speed or barrel length.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Alan Maughan

[dipper]

I use a anschutz. Xiv t leaves nothing to be desired top rifle. Dipper.

[Underdog]

If there was a problem I never noticed it out the pistols!

[Bewsher500]

mine is 12.5" and arguably more accurate than it was at 16!

[Harnser]

I have never owned an inaccurate .22 rim fire in my life ,and I have owned a few . However ,I have seen some very inaccurate ammo .

Harnser

[Davyo]

The simple answer is no, 14" isn't too short. Even if velocity was down 50-75fps it would make no discernible different to drop at .22lr ranges.

 

The more important question would be is the rifle accurate? as has already been said, you can have an accurate rifle with barrels from 12" to 24" and its accuracy that matters most with a .22LR, not small differences in bullet speed or barrel length.

Cheers thats what we where looking for, mate shoots out too no more that 80mtrs,there was just that grey area over barrel lenght/accuracy.

[Dekers]

There is a mass of different .22lr cartridges so it is foolish to make comments like "all the powder is burnt by the first "x" inches".

 

As already mentioned, conventional feeling is 16" works, as that is one complete revolution of the majority of .22lr, as they most commonly have a 1-16 twist.

 

Anschutz offer a 14" barrel though, and I'm not going to argue with them.

 

In simple terms the barrel length is not going to make a worthwile difference to the average shooter, in the average situation, in the field.

 

Edited June 2, 2015 by Dekers

[Davyo]

There is a mass of different .22lr cartridges and it is foolish to make comments like all the powder is burnt by the first "x" inches.

 

As already mentioned, conventional feeling is 16" works, as that is one complete revolution of the majority of .22lr, as they most commonly have a 1-16 twist.

 

Anschutz offer a 14" barrel though, and I'm not going to argue with them.

 

In simple terms the barrel length is not going to make a worthwile difference to the average shooter, in the average situation, in the field.

 

Cheers Dekers, it a CZ Varmint 542, it would only run winny 40g subs (providing it runs them ok,not a fan of using mixed rounds).Just will make a perfect cab gun giving its size.

Dave

[snow white]

Try different rounds both my 455 don't like winnes some guns are fusse just like air guns.best round for me SK guns love them.

[Underdog]

It makes no difference whether the bullet does one complete turn in the barrel or not. Hand guns rarely do in most chambering. Patched ball rifles don't either.

[Davyo]

Try different rounds both my 455 don't like winnes some guns are fusse just like air guns.best round for me SK guns love them.

We used whinnies in the other CZ varmint so would stick with those as long as it groups well at 5 mtrs.But like you said this one might be different.

[Dekers]

It makes no difference whether the bullet does one complete turn in the barrel or not. Hand guns rarely do in most chambering. Patched ball rifles don't either.

 

 

:hmm:

 

........ they tend to be nowhere near as accurate and carry less energy than the equivalent rifle rounds.

 

Edited June 2, 2015 by Dekers

[mel b3]

i cant offer any technical info and stats , i can only offer my own experience.

 

i had my new cz452 american .22lr , shortened to 12.5" by richard pope at swift , (a few years ago now) , it had been shooting very well with the full length barrel and bbmf mod , i just wanted it shortened to make it easier to shoot from the car.

 

i bought a carbon fibre mod from richard and set off to zero it , after the first fifty rounds , i was gutted , it grouped like a shotgun , i honestly thought that it was ruined , after a couple of hours and a couple of hundred rounds , id changed my shooting style to suit the gun and it was shooting as sweet as ever , i just needed to hold the gun a little tighter.

 

the gun is very fussy about ammo , eley subs are sweet , anything else is just about acceptable , winnie subs are truly awful through it.

 

i dont get too hung up on yards , i know my shoots very well and tend to know where to hold over/under , i zero at 60 yards , and im quite comfortable taking rabbits out to 150 yards .

[colin lad]

there was a write up in shooting mag where someone done a test and shortened a .22 lr from 22 inch to 12 inch in 1 inch sections and tested it at every length and 16 inch had the highest velocity but only by 60-70 fps which in hunting terms is not noticeable as others have said accuracy is more important than a few extra ft lb,

if the length you choose shoots straight then that's all that matters

 

colin

[1066]

 

 

:hmm:

 

........ they tend to be nowhere near as accurate and carry less energy than the equivalent rifle rounds.

 

 

Can't really agree with that Dekers. The short barrel, as used on a pistol is, in general very accurate. The short sight base and holding the $%*& thing still is the problem. Back in the day I did a fair amount of ammunition testing with pistols and a Ransom rest - some of the groups were stunning and would put many .22 rifles to shame at 25 yards.

 

Most .22LR pistols have a 1in12 to 1in16 twist rate so only doing about 1/3 turn in a pistol barrel - You will start to loose velocity below 14" however.

[Underdog]

Deckers sir. Many a pistol has achieved MOA. Straight cases and bottle necks, revolvers and single shots.

Many a front stuffer rifle the same and with 1-64" twists for patched ball. Conical muzzleloaders very often have longer twists than the barrel too. :-)

[Dekers]

 

Can't really agree with that Dekers. The short barrel, as used on a pistol is, in general very accurate. The short sight base and holding the $%*& thing still is the problem. Back in the day I did a fair amount of ammunition testing with pistols and a Ransom rest - some of the groups were stunning and would put many .22 rifles to shame at 25 yards.

 

Most .22LR pistols have a 1in12 to 1in16 twist rate so only doing about 1/3 turn in a pistol barrel - You will start to loose velocity below 14" however.

 

 

Deckers sir. Many a pistol has achieved MOA. Straight cases and bottle necks, revolvers and single shots.

Many a front stuffer rifle the same and with 1-64" twists for patched ball. Conical muzzleloaders very often have longer twists than the barrel too. :-)

 

So...why do heavy cumbersome rifles (compared to pistols) exist then?

 

Either of you want to come up with a .22 pistol and I'll take you on any day with my simple field 452 and show you how wrong you are.

 

Why do pistol tournaments never shoot as far as rifles, I spent plenty of time with pistols before the ban and whatever technicalities you want to talk about the reality is very different.

 

How about this, apple on your head at 100 yards, what would you want shooting at you, a .22lr pistol or .22lr rifle? Or perhaps the same with a 38!

 

Like for like a pistol and a rifle will always be an unequal contest in terms of accuracy and energy.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Dekers

[Savhmr]

pretty sure you'll find all the powder is burnt in the first 9" of the barrel.

my lsr competition gun has a 12 1/2" volquartsen barrel and no problems with accuracy on that.

 

if you're just worried about velocity I found a few web pages when researching mine which gave an indication of the differing velocities for barrel lengths.

 

Most 22LR rifles achieve peak muzzle velocity in a 16 inch barrel, although the differences between 16 to say 20inch barrels are pretty minimal. Powder burn rates tend to be faster than powder for say a 17 HMR which requires a longer barrel for peak velocity, but anything shorter than 16 inches with .22LR is going to exhibit lower muzzle velocities. In terms of accuracy, I've always found that standard or sub sonic loads do better than high velocity 22 bullets, due to the destabilising forces acting on the bullet as it slows past the sound barrier at longer ranges, so perversely, I've always found longer distance grouping to be better with standard/sub loads. Whether the accuracy is drastically affected by shorter barrels than 16 inch I don't know but would think that 16 upwards would be optimal for best accuracy to ensure max spin rate for bullet stability in flight.

 

There's a great resource for all things .22LR which is the Gun Digest book of 22 LR Rimfire which contains all of this information for anyone interested. (Auth: James E House). It contains loads of infor on 17 rounds too.

[1066]

What I'm saying Dekers, it's not really the length of barrel that denotes accuracy (within reason). A .22lr with a good six inch barrel is capable of excellent accuracy, given a shoulder stock and a scope at 50 yards I don't think there would be much in it. Every inch below 14-16 inches you will loose energy, this is where the problem lays. Rimfire ammunition isn't really very accurate, even top notch match ammunition can't compete with a reasonable centrefire rifle at any range. If you are launching a .22 bullet at only 8-900 fps to start with through a short barrel, you're ok at 50 yards but struggling at 100yds because any variability in the ammunition is greatly magnified

 

The free pistol match is shot at 50 metres, one handed with basic iron sights. These pistols are all capable of keeping them in the 10 ring at that distance.

 

This is a test target shot at 50 metres with a 7 inch barrel on a fairly run of the mill target pistol.

 

[Dekers]

What I'm saying Dekers, it's not really the length of barrel that denotes accuracy (within reason). A .22lr with a good six inch barrel is capable of excellent accuracy, given a shoulder stock and a scope at 50 yards I don't think there would be much in it. Every inch below 14-16 inches you will loose energy, this is where the problem lays. Rimfire ammunition isn't really very accurate, even top notch match ammunition can't compete with a reasonable centrefire rifle at any range. If you are launching a .22 bullet at only 8-900 fps to start with through a short barrel, you're ok at 50 yards but struggling at 100yds because any variability in the ammunition is greatly magnified

 

The free pistol match is shot at 50 metres, one handed with basic iron sights. These pistols are all capable of keeping them in the 10 ring at that distance.

 

This is a test target shot at 50 metres with a 7 inch barrel on a fairly run of the mill target pistol.

 

>&&0

 

I'm not attempting to make any comparison with a .22lr (or any) pistol and a centrefire rifle. And over the years I have used a variety of pistols, both target and others, I have fond memories of that little Spanish .22lr Star, never could put 2 shots in the same place though, even if you set it in concrete! Reading your post I can't help thinking you have just agreed with me in a comparison of pistol and rifle results with the .22lr.

 

Whilst rimfire ammo is not recognised as being that consistent or accurate, well, .22lr anyway, (and whilst specific .22lr pistol ammo is available round the world) the rifle will always present better results (like for like), so suggesting that pistols are less accurate due to the ammo not being very accurate is not the answer.

 

I was also at the Olympics where I was fortunate enough to watch the 50m Pistol Final (after watching the semi final shoot off) and some of the shotgun malarkey.

Medal presentation after 50m Pistol final.

 

Note the powdered yellow clay top right!

 

Even with the quality of these Pistol shooters/guns I'll take a .22lr rifle any day over their world beating accurate pistols, even at their distances.

 

Nobody did this with a .22lr pistol at 50 yards, this was my bog standard 452 Silhouette .22lr at 50 yards with ammo many will suggest is rubbish. Whatever spin you want to put it, the rifle is more accurate, will produce more consistant results and carries more energy.

 

ATB!

Edited June 3, 2015 by Dekers

[mickmep]

shot with a 12.5" barrel. using match ammo though.

10 shot group at 20 yards, no bipod, rest or leaning on anything.

Edited June 3, 2015 by mickmep