Savhmr Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) I note in correspondence between myself and my Firearms Licencing Officers that they repeatedly use the term "weapons" when referring to S1 rifles, specifically rim-fire rifles. I really do object to both home office guidelines, ACOP, and firearms licencing teams using the term "weapon" which then makes it into the media and has connotations associated with military weapons. During one phone call when an officer repeatedly used the term "weapon" I took him to task and said "it is NOT a weapon, it is a sporting rim-fire rifle, a S1 Firearm designed for target shooting or vermin control. A "weapon" is something designed to take human life, so please stop referring to my S1 firearms as "weapons" as that is NOT the intended use!" There followed a brief conversation during which empathy was expressed with this viewpoint, but he also mentioned that their guidance used the terminology "weapon" and that was that. This is something that I personally find irksome, inaccurate and one could argue wholly irresponsible. You could even suggest that it was a deliberate ploy to ensure widespread mis-use of the term, especially where the media are concerned. I never intend using my S1 (or any other) firearms for shooting anyone(!), so why do the police and H/O insist on using this irresponsible terminology? Is it pure ignorance, or perhaps a deliberate policy for their drive to take every opportunity at socially engineering all firearms out of public ownership? Answers on a postcard.....or below. Edited June 13, 2015 by Savhmr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I'm afraid weapon isn't just classed as designed to take human life, or for use by the military. Just something designed to cause harm or damage. So technically, yes our shotguns and rifles etc are weapons. However we all know the connotations attached to that, especially by the media, antis, and uneducated public ( uneducated in shooting matters, not in general. Well mostly anyway...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Blimey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Agree entirely - it's my pet hate (along with semi-auto's for the same reason that the OP gives - they're self loading). A weapon is defined as, "any instrument of offence or defence". Therefore, none of my sporting guns so qualify. Sorry, chaps, but it really gets my goat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Just mind conditioning by politicians. Get every one paranoid to suit their political agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Agree entirely - it's my pet hate (along with semi-auto's for the same reason that the OP gives - they're self loading). A weapon is defined as, "any instrument of offence or defence". Therefore, none of my sporting guns so qualify. Sorry, chaps, but it really gets my goat. Exactly, you don't hear many in the shooting fraternity usning the word weapon do you, a knife is a weapon but how often is the word used in the kitchen. The police seem to love using the term, maybe they think we are all stupid and near reminding of the dangerous nature of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 When armed response patrol, are they armed with firearms or weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 When armed response patrol, are they armed with firearms or weapons? Dunno .... I've never been able to see past the big guns they carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted June 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) I'm afraid weapon isn't just classed as designed to take human life, or for use by the military. Just something designed to cause harm or damage. So technically, yes our shotguns and rifles etc are weapons. However we all know the connotations attached to that, especially by the media, antis, and uneducated public ( uneducated in shooting matters, not in general. Well mostly anyway...) I have always regarded the term to mean EXACTLY something designed to inflict bodily harm on a person, not a rabbit or squirrel In that context, "weapons" are mainly, I would argue, (but admittedly not entirely) designed for military use or for self defence/offence. Anything can become a weapon, including a rolled up magazine, as demonstrated by Matt Damon, but I wouldn't mind placing a gentleman's bet that the editor of Vogue Magazine didn't start out with a team meeting to design their magazine to including withstanding origami for ninja warriors... Either way, it's splitting hairs really. Whatever way it's cut, I do think it's an abuse to use the term for S1 firearms in legal private ownership being used for sporting purposes for which they were specifically designed. Sorry; it's a vexatious personal pet hate, along with being stuck behind JCBs on main roads, pretend hell's angels (beards/grimaces/denims/chaps and all) who are most likely solicitors and dentists during the week. Difference is, the mis-use of the term "weapon" has wide and one might argue non-acceptable connotations. When I am applying for an FAC renewal, I don't intend applying for weapons in case of the zombie apocalypse, or to join some nut job militia. I intend using them for vermin control. weapon ˈwɛp(ə)n/ noun a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage. "nuclear weapons" a means of gaining an advantage or defending oneself in a conflict or contest. "resignation threats had long been a weapon in his armoury" I Edited June 13, 2015 by Savhmr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffin Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I have had a shotgun since 14 now 66 never once felt it was a weapon to defend myself or attack others that is what a weapon is I have sporting equipment. We should never let anyone call our sporting equipment a weapon it is not. You might as well call the dog a weapon because I might chuck it at you. If we where allowed handguns and I bought one for personal protection I would view that as a weapon it annoys me intensely what annoys me even more is watching ex military people run young shots days for BASC and tell youngsters they own a weapon when they never viewed it as such. Others are correct it is reinforcing what the media tell about us and we should not let it happen. I have nothing but respect for members of the armed forces but I do not let any call my sporting equipment a weapon I have assisted with the setting up of a clay shoot at a military base when you pointed out the difference between sporting guns and what they mainly used most understood a bit of reverse thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffin Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Scully they are not using sporting equipment when I was a teenager many years ago before we had armed response A guy came from Manchester towards Buxton the local bobbies had no guns but knocked on doors borrowed shotguns from people in the local villages they knew held up the guy and took the guns back hung them back on the two nails they where hung on in most cases. That was a case of sporting guns turning to weapons and back into sporting guns in a short space of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 The antis accuse fieldsports participants of being "murderers" but killing an animal as opposed to a human.......is not murder! They also refer to field sports as "blood sports" They refer to people who hunt or shoot are "Toffs" when in reality people who participate in fieldsports come from all walks of life! The BBC presenters on programmes such as spring watch, autumn watch and country file refer to young animals and birds as "babies" and the adults as "mother" or "father" and give individual animals and birds human names.........intentionally anthropomorphic! It is subtle subliminal propaganda! Just like calling a sporting gun a "weapon" this terminology is designed to stimulate negative emotion and influence the public via the media into supporting an anti gun, anti gun ownership, anti field-sports agenda! This propaganda influences more and more of the urban ignorant and the "sheep" in our society and ignorance is what will put the last nail in the coffin of fieldsports!.......And worse! The stupid sheep will ultimately rob us of all our freedoms, for example...... How many times have I heard shooters saying the Police can misinterpret home office guidance and act beyond their powers as much as they like in respect to gun Licencing! it won't affect me because "I have nothing to hide"? ...baaaah.......baaaah.........baaaah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffin Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 And the Country is not a safer place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Has the word weapon come in to play since the tactical rifle became more popular, not knocking tactical rifles here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Next time just ask him what his job title is . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffin Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I do not think so as shooters we accept **** to easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I always have in my mind when handling or in the presence of any type of firearm, (loaded or unloaded) that they are in fact very deadly weapons and it is on this basic understanding that all of my dealings with them are done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted June 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) The police (who have a hard enough time of it without me making things worse for them) were a bit taken aback that I felt so strongly about this issue. As much as it has been allowed to creep in along with other thin end of wedges against the shooting community in recent years, it should be dealt with as the propaganda sensationalist nonsense that it is. The term "Air weapon" is just as offensive (without being offensive...if you get my drift) because it's an air rifle, not an air weapon, unless some thug decides to mis-use it. The same can be said of a kitchen knife (or do I mean "cutlery weapon"), cricket bat , or cricked ball ("externally guided mobile weapon, lethal in the wrong hands to 22 yards"). Edited June 13, 2015 by Savhmr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted June 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I always have in my mind when handling or in the presence of any type of firearm, (loaded or unloaded) that they are in fact very deadly weapons and it is on this basic understanding that all of my dealings with them are done! I think if you re-worded that to "capable of being used as deadly weapons" or have the potential to be lethal weapons" then I would agree with you STOTTO. The same could be said for the motor car which has killed more people and continues to kill more people every year in the UK than all privately registered firearms have done over the past 50 years. The motor car is an especially lethal and effective "weapon" but was not designed to take life, but to enhance our lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Get worked up all you like, but the dictionary definition states A firearm is...... a rifle, pistol, or other portable gun. A gun is...... a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise A weapon is...... a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage Do you not cause physical damage to the rabbits you shoot. Personally, I find the term S1 firearm equally as daft, what the heck has which part of the act the weapon comes under got to do with it. Besides which, firearms and weapons are for wannabes, me, I use a rifle and a shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 What I meant was that AR don't refer to their firearms as weapons, but usually firearms. The media however, because they need to dramatise the banal in an attempt to make sales will refer to all firearms as 'deadly weapons'. We can harp on all we like but we're not in any position to alter that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I note in correspondence between myself and my Firearms Licencing Officers that they repeatedly use the term "weapons" when referring to S1 rifles, specifically rim-fire rifles. I really do object to both home office guidelines, ACOP, and firearms licencing teams using the term "weapon" which then makes it into the media and has connotations associated with military weapons. During one phone call when an officer repeatedly used the term "weapon" I took him to task and said "it is NOT a weapon, it is a sporting rim-fire rifle, a S1 Firearm designed for target shooting or vermin control. A "weapon" is something designed to take human life, so please stop referring to my S1 firearms as "weapons" as that is NOT the intended use!" There followed a brief conversation during which empathy was expressed with this viewpoint, but he also mentioned that their guidance used the terminology "weapon" and that was that. This is something that I personally find irksome, inaccurate and one could argue wholly irresponsible. You could even suggest that it was a deliberate ploy to ensure widespread mis-use of the term, especially where the media are concerned. I never intend using my S1 (or any other) firearms for shooting anyone(!), so why do the police and H/O insist on using this irresponsible terminology? Is it pure ignorance, or perhaps a deliberate policy for their drive to take every opportunity at socially engineering all firearms out of public ownership? Answers on a postcard.....or below. This is a common problem where people don't realise that the dictionary is a reference to how words are generally used rather than what they actually mean. It is descriptive not predictive. The term weapon is easily defined as a object designed and used for the harm of another human being. But many read it as 'an ability to destroy a target'. If I was paranoid I'd think this was a deliberate government ploy but more likely their legislation was originally informed by the military where all there firearms are weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted June 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Get worked up all you like, but the dictionary definition states A firearm is...... a rifle, pistol, or other portable gun. A gun is...... a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise A weapon is...... a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage Do you not cause physical damage to the rabbits you shoot. Personally, I find the term S1 firearm equally as daft, what the heck has which part of the act the weapon comes under got to do with it. Besides which, firearms and weapons are for wannabes, me, I use a rifle and a shotgun. Nonsense! A weapon is defined as something used or designed for use in defence or offence between humans beings. It has never been used in general to describe an object for any other use. Drop the "S1" and just refer to them as what they actually are, "firearms and guns" designed for sporting/vermin controlled purposes. Yes, I do get indignant when people refer to my sporting rifles as weapons. Yes, I always pick people up that I speak to who describe them as such, including the police firearms officers that I deal with. I don't care for the term "weapon" as it is misleading and inaccurate when used to describe a hunting or sporting target firearm. There is a difference and if you don't know the difference between a weapon and something designed for sport or something designed for vermin control, then more shame on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Nonsense! A weapon is defined as something used or designed for use in defence or offence between humans beings. It has never been used in general to describe an object for any other use. Drop the "S1" and just refer to them as what they actually are, "firearms and guns" designed for sporting/vermin controlled purposes. Yes, I do get indignant when people refer to my sporting rifles as weapons. Yes, I always pick people up that I speak to who describe them as such, including the police firearms officers that I deal with. I don't care for the term "weapon" as it is misleading and inaccurate when used to describe a hunting or sporting target firearm. There is a difference and if you don't know the difference between a weapon and something designed for sport or something designed for vermin control, then more shame on you. Can't possibly be nonsense, I obtained my quotes directly from the dictionary and nowhere did it mention human beings, try reading my post again. Where, pray does any dictionary state "A weapon is defined as something used or designed for use in defence or offence between humans beings" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffin Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 What this is about and if you do not see it we are in the mire More people do not shoot than do We do not need them all to shoot would not be enough to go around what we need is all to understand that shooting folk are normal members of society and accept them as that. That is what I want our organisations to do normalize shooting Thats what I like about Firearms UK they support all shooting sports at the expense of non. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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