welsh1 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 http://veteransforpeace.org.uk/2015/war-veterans-discard-medals-in-rejection-of-militarism-and-war/ Can't say I agree with them ,but a powerful picture of medals and berets on the floor.you have to respect them for standing up for what they believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Sorry but I don't agree with what they did, When you see service personnel interviewed after receiving medals they nearly all say that they did nothing special but accept the medals on behalf of their troop/squadron/regiment Bit of a kick in the teeth for them Surely nobody can be forced to accept a medal so why not refuse it in the first place? Empty gesture in my opinion, and yes I fully expect to be critised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carman06 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 As a veteran. I can't agree with what they did at all. I'm proud to have served and it's the mere fact that we have people serving in our forces that allows them the freedom to do what they have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 They are welcome to their personal beliefs, but who cares ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 They are welcome to their personal beliefs, but who cares ? Well you could say that about anything posted on this site,but it wouldn't be that helpful to conversation would it. There seems to be a growing number of veterans joining this group,and it is also happening in USA ,they are also going to be laying a white poppy wreath at the cenotaph in November,I am sure that is going to raise a few eyebrows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 They obviously believe in what they are doing but then they should have thought about that before joining up.Easy to say now,but as a youngster taking the oath then there isnt much thought put into it. Griffin has previous and seems to enjoy the limelight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) They obviously believe in what they are doing but then they should have thought about that before joining up.Easy to say now,but as a youngster taking the oath then there isnt much thought put into it. Griffin has previous and seems to enjoy the limelight. I think Griffin "cracked" a good while ago and this is his coping strategy,unfortunately he drags others into his world because of the position he held and I believe some may be in awe of him.Saying all that there has been talk about the Sapper in the article on a Sapper fb page,and the general concencus is that he is a good bloke and wouldn't have made this decision lightly. I can see their point in a roundabout way,look at Tony Blair getting us into a war which lead to thousands of deaths and the spin off from that,was it really nesessary?.but I cannot agree that we should not take the fight to the enemy,sometimes that is what is needed. Edited July 13, 2015 by welsh1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 They are welcome to their personal beliefs, but who cares ? That was an odd post from a moderator on PW. Should you not be setting a good example instead of simply saying 'who cares?'. Many who have lost loved ones in unnecessary conflicts will certainly care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.w. Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 That was an odd post from a moderator on PW. Should you not be setting a good example instead of simply saying 'who cares?'. Many who have lost loved ones in unnecessary conflicts will certainly care. very well said sir.These veterans feel strongly about what's happens to there fellow man kind, matter not what creed, colour or country they come from they care. Opinions are like noses everyone has one but some have a bigger one than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 They are welcome to their personal beliefs, but who cares ? Well you could say that about anything posted on this site,but it wouldn't be that helpful to conversation would it. There seems to be a growing number of veterans joining this group,and it is also happening in USA ,they are also going to be laying a white poppy wreath at the cenotaph in November,I am sure that is going to raise a few eyebrows. That was an odd post from a moderator on PW. Should you not be setting a good example instead of simply saying 'who cares?'. Many who have lost loved ones in unnecessary conflicts will certainly care. My point was that three veterans returning their caps and medals would make very little impact, an empty gesture. You will note that I did say they were entitled to their opinions. If 3000, or even 30 veterans had marched on Downing Street I believe people may have taken more notice. I cannot find any reference to this act in any national media, so I rest my case. Regarding the "odd post" comment, like other Moderators I am a member first and a Moderator second. Nothing in my post breached the House Rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Interesting to read and I think I shall be joining them. I don't have any medals but I do have an oath in which I no longer believe. Taking pride in military objectives is one thing but the politics of destabilisation and being sent into combat on the back of political lies is quite another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 A lot of Vietnam veterans did the same thing on mass,it changed absolutely nothing,if thats what these fellas want to do and it makes them feel better then its up to them.It still wont change anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 A lot of Vietnam veterans did the same thing on mass,it changed absolutely nothing,if thats what these fellas want to do and it makes them feel better then its up to them.It still wont change anything. From small acorns and all that, Every movement starts with just a few voices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 A lot of veterans have in the past become disillusioned to the point of bitter resentment, with what they were doing and in particular the actions of their own governments, from all parts of military history throughout the ages. The personal memoirs of many former soldiers include their sense of betrayal due to the realities of the politics of war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 True true but like i said if it makes them feel any better then thats ok its up to them.wars will still go on and blokes will still be sent to go and fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 http://veteransforpeace.org.uk/2015/war-veterans-discard-medals-in-rejection-of-militarism-and-war/ Can't say I agree with them ,but a powerful picture of medals and berets on the floor.you have to respect them for standing up for what they believe. I do not agree with these sentiments because you have to be prepared to to defend your country against REAL enemies. “This is my Oath of Allegiance, this was a contract between the Monarchy, the British Government and a fifteen year old child. I am no longer loyal to the Government or the Monarchy.” Said Kieran Devlin who then discarded his Oath of Allegiance. But I have the greatest admiration and respect for people who despite years of indoctrination eventually see the truth for what it is: “These are my medals, these were given to me were given to me as a reward for invading other peoples countries and murdering their civilians. I’m now handing them back” Said Kieran Devlin who then discarded his medals. This particular medal here, was given to me for my part in the occupation of Iraq. Whilst I was over there, I attacked civilians in their homes and took away their men, off to be tortured in prison. I no longer want these despicable things.” Said Ben Griffin who then discarded his medals. Militarism is like religion, it needs brain washed converts who follow rules regardless of truth and consequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 i personally found the pictures of the medals and berets discarded on the floor quite powerful,putting aside the politics for a moment. To me my medals are a reminder,they remind me of people I was with and what happened,every time I put them on there is a bit of a ritual,they have to be polished,and sitting there doing that reminds me of different faces from the past,some gone most still here,then the wife has to put them on my suit,and I know she thinks of the times I was away in the places the medals were awarded for,and I know she thinks of the damage they did to me mentally.And then when I parade with others with medals you can see in people's eyes that they have been through something like yourself and it forms a strong bond. My beret was earned,I had to pass basic training,it made me a soldier,and in my case a Sapper,I joined a very large family,and that family looked out for me and still does to this day,my beret is upstairs in the cupboard next to my medals,it is worn only a few times a year,but again when it is placed on my head it feels like it has always been there,my wife says it's the only thing I can wear on my head that doesn't make me look like a tit,when I wear it I feel pride,and a sense of achievement it reminds me again of faces from the past. That is why I find the picture so powerful,to just discard two things from your military service that mean so much is a hard thing to do,and you must have an immense belief that what you are doing is right. As I said I don't agree with them but I do respect them for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) War exists in the vain hope of convincing ones enemies of the pointlessness of conflict, regrettably they will remain forever unconvinced! We therefore need to accept the futility of any type of ‘Lasting Peace’ and for those that have served in the theatre of war no one but they can decide how worthy was their contribution but their country will be forever grateful for that contribution to a successful campaign whatever the sacrifice of the individual! “Si vis pacem, para bellum” small tweak Edited July 13, 2015 by STOTTO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 What you see through the eyes of a young man is not the same as the way you see things later in life. Neither is right and neither is wrong, its part of life's journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 A lot of veterans have in the past become disillusioned to the point of bitter resentment, with what they were doing and in particular the actions of their own governments, from all parts of military history throughout the ages. The personal memoirs of many former soldiers include their sense of betrayal due to the realities of the politics of war. You only have to read some of the post WW1 memoirs or books like All Quiet on The Western Front to see that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 What you see through the eyes of a young man is not the same as the way you see things later in life. Neither is right and neither is wrong, its part of life's journey. Very true,as i age i note i am becoming a bit more philosophical. As a young soldier i felt no fear and was ready to do battle,later on after those wishes had been granted i advised young friends not to wish for such things,but they didn't listen ,why should they they were young and felt no fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 What you see through the eyes of a young man is not the same as the way you see things later in life. Neither is right and neither is wrong, its part of life's journey. Very true. I recently caught glimpses of a programme about some Irish bloke who is quite well to do now within the arts, who said there were many causes for which he would have felt justified in killing, as a young man in Ireland, but now that he was much older he was so relieved he hadn't. I have read many personal accounts of conflict from both World Wars, Vietnam, the Falklands and the Gulf wars, and many (but by no means all) have expressed a regret for the things they had done and resentment for the way in which they were treated by those for whom they had previously had much respect. It's all very sad in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJW Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 As a civilian I don't feel I'm in a position to judge them. They have served their country and as far as I'm concerned are fully entitled to renounce the military if they want to. However in expressing those opinions I don't think it's fair to vilify those still serving. Hopefully the images will bring more of a spotlight onto other issues effecting ex-service men like PTSD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 What you see through the eyes of a young man is not the same as the way you see things later in life. Neither is right and neither is wrong, its part of life's journey. Very true. As for the soldiers handing back their medals that's up to them. Opposing war where possible I can't argue with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10gaugewannabee Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 As a veteran. I can't agree with what they did at all. I'm proud to have served and it's the mere fact that we have people serving in our forces that allows them the freedom to do what they have done. i agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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