team tractor Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 Probably best keep this one odds are its going to halve in value with the press surrounding vw. Be a shame if they go bust over it which seems like it could be more likely the more this goes on Halve in value? Ha I don't think so as it's a T5 . They loose a grand a year and sell instantly with my mileage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 The big issue with VW in the US is that they deliberately built a marketing strategy around the low emission of their diesel cars. Diesel is a really small percentage of the US market and they traditionally drive cars with big petrol engines, but the aggressive emissions limits set by the US states started to make this difficult, on top of that the cost of fuel is much higher in the US than it was (albeit still much cheaper then us) so fuel economy is becoming a much bigger deal. VW saw what was happening and said with our diesel cars you can still get the power, torque and performance that you would get with your 3.5l petrol motor, but with massive improvements in fuel economy and significantly reduced emissions. It is not so much that they cheated on the tests, but rather they completely mislead their customers. They will be prosecuted and fined for breaking the rules on motor vehicle emissions which is one thing, but they will be sued big style under consumer protection laws and I believe it is the abuse of the consumer protection rules the the DoJ is investigating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 The problem for owners of cars affected will be if vw do a recall and flash the ecu to run the car at the emissions levels that they say it runs at! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 But from what I heard earlier this week our vehicles are effected insofar as the data used to determine emissions for VED were understated - was 'defeat' software used during testing? Why have Swiss blocked sales of all VAG vehicles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 But from what I heard earlier this week our vehicles are effected insofar as the data used to determine emissions for VED were understated - was 'defeat' software used during testing? Why have Swiss blocked sales of all VAG vehicles? I believe that is true, the emissions values are not representative of real world performance figures so therefor attracting a lower VED cost relative to the vehicles performance. I guess the Swiss have acted due to consumer rules too, VW are misrepresenting their product beyond the 'normal' tolerances that we have come to expect around MPG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imissalot Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 Hopefully with a car. Wot happens to vans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuji Shooter Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 Every other you car you see these days seems to be a VW Transporter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marki Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 There is a long list of companies that have been fined for the same on the justice.gov website. Honda, Kia, Hyundai, Cadillac and caterpillar being just a few. I could show you many more, there are pages of them. There is way more politics involved to this than anyone is letting on.VW are a major risk to the American manufacturers in multiple markets with strong developments in South America. There is also the fact that it wasn't that long ago that Piech tried to remove Winterkorn and was voted against. Is this just very unfortunate timing for Winterkorn or a strong chance for the Porsche family to do what they have tried for years? VW made a profit of around 19 billion euros last year, 11 billion isn't peanuts but it's not going to break them. The reality is that if they start to feel any pain then it will be the smaller companies, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Scania, Man etc that suffer. Most of them are just toys to the group. The people who own the black book, used for second hand car prices, have already suggested that they do not expect this to have any effect on the resale prices, in reality who really cares that much? If emissions were that important to you then you'd be cycling to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 But from what I heard earlier this week our vehicles are effected insofar as the data used to determine emissions for VED were understated - was 'defeat' software used during testing? Why have Swiss blocked sales of all VAG vehicles? Weren't they cheating on nox tests? The UK VED is based on CO2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 BrowningB525 - yep but the suggestion is that the 'manufacturers' data on which our VED levels are based was similarly flawed. Of course we all know new car economy data bears no resemblance to reality - my wife's first Mini Countryman was out by roughly 50% and she is a very steady driver. Her new diesel Mini is only out by a third! There were some rediculous claims of MPG for all the VW group cars: Skoda, Seat and VW. Noticed yesterday Audi and Skoda have admitted to using 'defeat' software. Won't affect our buying decision however and quite like Audi A3 when she changes her car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marki Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I've had a lot of VW group cars and always found the MPG to be decent. I think the bit that gets ignored is that the 2 litre diesel have a multitude of power outputs. Some of the lower power ones have easily returned 50-60mpg for my daily 50 mile commute whereas the higher powered versions tend to be around 35-45mpg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 36 mpg out my 140bhp t5 on a run or 32mpg with tools on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I've had a lot of VW group cars and always found the MPG to be decent. I think the bit that gets ignored is that the 2 litre diesel have a multitude of power outputs. Some of the lower power ones have easily returned 50-60mpg for my daily 50 mile commute whereas the higher powered versions tend to be around 35-45mpg. Our 2 litre 150 bhp golf blue motion quite comfortably returns 55-60 mpg on a long journey. There is a chance that CO2 savings may be at the expense of nox emissions. CO2 is directly proportional to fuel burnt, whereas nox isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katzenjammer Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 All the fuss is quite ironic really given that the US is regularly amongst the worlds top polluters and has resisted worldwide agreements on reining in emissions. I suspect this VW case is a useful diversion from the real truths even if laws are being broken. The illegal VW emissions are a miniscule part of American pollution! US industry has never liked the assault of other countries products on its markets especially if our technology outstrips theirs. Concorde was a fine example? The US consumer may want foreign goods but US industry and government don't - very protectionist. That is to be applauded of course - a shame we weren't moreso? (Goodbye steelmaking on Teesside) The world is screwed whatever we do to try to reverse the trend and thus I don't really give a hoot about emissions - well only so far as my car passing its MOT and I suspect many feel the same? If we really cared about the planet we would work to reduce populations massively? Doing that would place less demand on industries to keep producing and polluting. As that isn't going to happen it is obvious as peoples standards of living rise across the globe so too will consumerism and pollution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 All the fuss is quite ironic really given that the US is regularly amongst the worlds top polluters and has resisted worldwide agreements on reining in emissions. I suspect this VW case is a useful diversion from the real truths even if laws are being broken. The illegal VW emissions are a miniscule part of American pollution! US industry has never liked the assault of other countries products on its markets especially if our technology outstrips theirs. Concorde was a fine example? The US consumer may want foreign goods but US industry and government don't - very protectionist. That is to be applauded of course - a shame we weren't moreso? (Goodbye steelmaking on Teesside) The world is screwed whatever we do to try to reverse the trend and thus I don't really give a hoot about emissions - well only so far as my car passing its MOT and I suspect many feel the same? If we really cared about the planet we would work to reduce populations massively? Doing that would place less demand on industries to keep producing and polluting. As that isn't going to happen it is obvious as peoples standards of living rise across the globe so too will consumerism and pollution. Do not believe the global warming bull manure that is spread around. It exists for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only. 1) to raise revenue via taxation 2) to keep scientists employed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhunter Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Do not believe the global warming bull manure that is spread around. It exists for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only. 1) to raise revenue via taxation 2) to keep scientists employed. Can't believe I just read that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Can't believe I just read that!! I can, and I agree totally, I realise that the planets climate is changing as the climate changes(that's what climates do) but as for it being man made? When they can accurately forecast the weather for next week on a continual basis I might give them a little more credit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Can't believe I just read that!!Unfortunately I can. People love a conspiracy theory even if it is utterly bonkers, and PW'ers are prone to I-know-best outbursts. Going back a bit though, this story is largely about pollution and air quality and not climate change so it just muddies the waters bringing that into the mix. Edited September 29, 2015 by FalconFN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 It's not about pollution, it's about lying and cheating whilst at the same time promoting brand values in direct contrast to the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 It's not about pollution, it's about lying and cheating whilst at the same time promoting brand values in direct contrast to the truth.You're absolutely right, I was just making the broader point about what the fraud referred to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Global warming When the earth started it was hot We cooled down and had an ice age, it was cold We are now still recovering from the ice age and its getting warmer, Thank you No need for applause, no really.....no need It's common sense, When we have reached boiling point we will probably head off for another ice age Circle of life .....Makuna Matata or words to that effect (Other climate change theories are available) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Do not believe the global warming bull manure that is spread around. It exists for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only. 1) to raise revenue via taxation 2) to keep scientists employed. Spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Of course, this could just be a little diversion from a company they really want to finish, or damage. They may have to go through all the manufactures now and "stumble" across one. The likes of this could finish a company the size of JLR possibly, and they must be a right pain in the neck for some American manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1961 Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Wait till they have to tax them the government will love this 500 pound down the drain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Guess who VW have appointed to sort out this problem - Olaf Lies!! You just couldn't make it up could you. That should give us confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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