dabbers Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 bbc said today that the Eu is ,quote,,, cracking down on firearms movement in eu,,,so they still cant grasp its the illegal movements of guns ,so they are taking the easy option,yet again on hammering the law abiding shooter,,,total **** as usual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I haven't seen the news but possibly a sound bite to placate the general public? 'Look, we're doing something.......it won't make a **** of difference to the activities of well armed terrorists, but we're doing 'something'. 😎 Why am I so cynical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) From the few bits and pieces that I have read it the stated intent of harmonising firearm legislation across the EU is to make it easier to identify where there may be illegality and to act upon that much more decisively. The current mishmash of legislation in an area where there are no border controls means there is a huge amount of opportunity for things to slip between the cracks. Obviously a car full of fully automatic AK47's would seem to be a no brainer no matter where it is discovered, but I daresay that beyond face value there is a significant number of loopholes that can be exploited. Although slightly different to the point at hand harmonising the laws should also make it less likely for an otherwise law abiding shooter to fall foul of inconsistency in the laws between member states. Not so dissimilar to the potential scenarios that we will see with the stupid Scottish air weapon bill. I wonder if any new EU rule could supersede that particular bit of legislation? That would be really interesting. Would any new laws make any material difference to the bad guys with machine guns? I would say not a jot, but it does offer a bit of stage management as Scully suggests. Edited November 20, 2015 by grrclark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Have just received an email from the CA on this very matter, and their response. Am on phone at minute but will post it later today after getting home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossberg-operator Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 You are right of course but aren’t tighter gun laws as mentioned only designed to restrict the activities of the already law-abiding whilst leaving the criminal/terrorist element among society to operate with impunity until caught/neutralized, and while they are at it what about tightening the law on suicide vests?? here you go: http://www.guns.com/2015/11/19/petition-started-to-pass-suicide-vest-control-laws/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=564ee4a504d3016326567efb&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Meh! So that's the sound of a military coo And, just to keep the thread on track, I, for one, would not like civilians wandering around with concealed weapons - it is bad enough in Hackney as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlewis Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Found this on my gun club forum thought it might be of use here. https://www.change.org/p/council-of-the-european-union-eu-you-cannot-stop-terrorism-by-restricting-legal-gun-ownership?recruiter=false&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink Have a look and sign if you feel strong about us being hard done by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 here you go scully.... "In the wake of the horrific events in Paris last week, the European Commission has this week announced that it will be amending the Firearms Directive to make it more difficult to acquire firearms, including deactivated firearms, with the aim of improving traceability and stronger co-operation between member states.The Countryside Alliance is concerned that at least some of the proposals seem to have little to do with addressing the deplorable acts of terrorism in Paris and will simply create additional unnecessary burdens for national police forces and legal firearm holders.Many of the recommendations are sensible and show where improvements can be made. However, others appear to be hastily made decisions which could backfire on the legal firearm holders of the UK.The UK is world renowned for its strict firearms licensing laws and we lead on many of the issues which the EU Commission is discussing, such as deactivation and standardised marking. However, some of these proposals would seem unlikely to have an effect on terrorist activity.We strongly believe that the way forward is a separate directive dealing with terrorism and military arms, not amending the Firearms Directive. If, though, the Commission is determined to push forward with amendments they must be clearly aimed at the increasing threat of terrorism and illegal trafficking. Tim BonnerChief ExecutiveFollow on Twitter @CA_TimBEuropean sporting umbrella body FACE, of which the Countryside Alliance is part, issued a press release where it declared: "FACE supports the European Commission’s initiatives in the fight against terrorism and illegal practices. FACE nonetheless questions how the Commission’s proposal to further restrict the lawful possession of firearms by hunters and sports shooters would prevent terrorists from committing atrocities. Illegally manufactured and/or trafficked firearms are readily available from the black market within the EU or from outside its borders." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Cheers Brett1985. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 no worries fella. the EU bods never fail to amaze me with some of the insane ideas that they come up with. this being just the tip of the iceberg really. good to see that the CA have jumped on it. anyone heard anything from BASC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) anyone heard anything from BASC? http://basc.org.uk/blog/press-releases/latest-news/basc-acts-on-eu-firearms-review/ Edited November 20, 2015 by BrowningB525 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 bbc said today that the Eu is ,quote,,, cracking down on firearms movement in eu,,,so they still cant grasp its the illegal movements of guns ,so they are taking the easy option,yet again on hammering the law abiding shooter,,,total **** as usual “Nero fiddled while Rome burned” comes to mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 The problem is that to make this effective and worthwhile you would need to train a seriously large number of people. Anyway studies have shown that unless the person has extremely good training the vast majority of folks who carry, mainly in the USA eithet cant draw their concealed carry in time to make it a difference without getting themselves killed or without making a hash of it. The studies were in the form of simulations and the majority failed to be at all effective at responding to a gun man It has been done in the states, with multiple concealed weapon permits. I am certain that what happened in Paris wouldn't get off the ground with so many carrying legal weapons. It is probably why they haven't tried it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 This is another case of "look at what we have done to protect you all aren't we good!" Ok so the terrorist used full auto ak 47s and explosives but they are already banned so we can't ban them again can we! Why not up hold the current law you say? but that would mean we would have to do the job you are paying us to do! One way the attacks could have been stopped is if car where banned! the terrorist would not have been able to get to paris with their guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 This is another case of "look at what we have done to protect you all aren't we good!" Ok so the terrorist used full auto ak 47s and explosives but they are already banned so we can't ban them again can we! Why not up hold the current law you say? but that would mean we would have to do the job you are paying us to do! One way the attacks could have been stopped is if cars where banned! the terrorist would not have been able to get to paris with their guns What about handcarts? I know that the government are aware that you can get to hell in one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 It has been done in the states, with multiple concealed weapon permits. I am certain that what happened in Paris wouldn't get off the ground with so many carrying legal weapons. It is probably why they haven't tried it there. Are you seriously suggesting that the fanatical crazed terrorists that are happy to die for their misguided cause and are largely trained in warfare by sympathetic countries and mercenaries are going to be afraid of a few ordinary people who may be carrying a handgun.Perhaps it does not happen in America so much is unlike our ridiculous government their borders are very secure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Are you seriously suggesting that the fanatical crazed terrorists that are happy to die for their misguided cause and are largely trained in warfare by sympathetic countries and mercenaries are going to be afraid of a few ordinary people who may be carrying a handgun.Perhaps it does not happen in America so much is unlike our ridiculous government their borders are very secure. Maybe not frightened but if it stopped their ambition then why do it. No point trying to achieve something you know is unachievable. Mind you, makes you wonder what they would try then, and perhaps the governments are thinking what they do now is the lesser of two evils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Are you seriously suggesting that the fanatical crazed terrorists that are happy to die for their misguided cause and are largely trained in warfare by sympathetic countries and mercenaries are going to be afraid of a few ordinary people who may be carrying a handgun. People carrying firearms would not stop similar terrorist attacks occurring, but it could give you a better chance of surviving. I am sure given the choice to have or not have a firearm in a similar situation most people would choose to have a firearm, unless you are jeremy corbyn. As seen already the brainless reaction is to further limit law abiding citizens access to firearms and types of firearms. Edited November 21, 2015 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 To be honest, given the choice of being shot in the back running away or someone taking a pot shot at said terrorist I know which I would go for. One way you have a decent chance, the other no chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tx4cabbie Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I don't think the handgun has yet been invented that will stand toe to toe with an ak variant, and person properly trained in military tactics will have a significant advantage in combat over someone with no training. These things are pretty much cast in stone. There have been incidents which show,however, that an armed citizen, with anything from a gutting knife to a single shot liberator pistol to a mauser rifle, can do much in the cause of good. The boers, the French resistance, armed civilians can make a difference, even against trained military opponents. I think both above posts are right - this doesn't happen in the states partly because their borders are guarded with pathological intensity, and partly because even a well armed well equipped force will be inconvenienced by accurate small arms fire, from MANY sources, 360 degrees around. Switzerland and Israel have a similar defence - you know that if you kick off there, you're going to be under fire from everyone, from everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Despite the fact the U.S. hasnt yet seen an attack like this that can't be anything to do with the armed population as spree shooters, often working alone, have massacred countless victims even in the last ten years. If one shooter can take out thirty or so people before they are taken out, a determined group could claim just as many as Paris so I'd say the fact an attack on the U.S. hasnt happened must be purely down to chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Despite the fact the U.S. hasnt yet seen an attack like this that can't be anything to do with the armed population as spree shooters, often working alone, have massacred countless victims even in the last ten years. If one shooter can take out thirty or so people before they are taken out, a determined group could claim just as many as Paris so I'd say the fact an attack on the U.S. hasnt happened must be purely down to chance Exactly. Althou pherhaps there security or intellegance services are also a bit better at picking up on things like this, posibly had an awakening after 9/11 as i'm sure the french/europeans have after this, Why have they targeted france (and at moment belgium) where all police are armed over the UK where police are not armed, if having handguns was a big concern. The simple fact is chances are u could carry a gun every day of ur life and never ever need it, so wots the point. yes its there in the slim chance u need it but it is also there to be stolen or forgotten about too. If police can leave guns behind so can anyone. And if u are unfortunate enough to actually need it u would probably be more of a hinderance than a help I really do not believe having more guns about solves anything, well in the UK atleast, esp in untrained hands, more chance of them fallling into the wrong hands Alwya remember read a book written by a bouncer years ago, think he ran a lot of doors in the Newcastle area back in the day, a proper old school bouncer, 1 of his quotes/philosiphes was "Run from a knife and run to a gun," as u will never outrun a bullet. But he would be a proper hard man, and i doubt he would run from a knife either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 And if u are unfortunate enough to actually need it u would probably be more of a hinderance than a help. How. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 a sky news report is saying the un has sanctioned the destruction of IS by the rest of the world.lets hope they get their act together and destroy this evil for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 a sky news report is saying the un has sanctioned the destruction of IS by the rest of the world.lets hope they get their act together and destroy this evil for good. Lets hope so, linstead of bringing in stricter controls on law abiding citizens firearms that will do nothing to stop attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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