bigbird Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Never be afraid to ask for help! Which is what I'm doing right now. Ok guys, I need you to help me think outside the box. I have a 7 month old cracking springer bitch, bought a couple of months ago. The problem? Her recall. Recall is The Most Important thing as you know. This little bitch (hate that word) will stand off three or four feet waiting for me to do something exciting. I should add that as soon as I realised she did this that all retrieving was cut out as she's even worse with a tennis ball. Tried treats. Tried treats and gradually touching her more and more so she realised I wasn't going to grab her. Doesn't work. Didn't grab her, didn't put any pressure on. She simply took the treat and retreated to about four ft away. Tried long line. Worried her. Tried tennis ball between my knees and bouncing another. She told me she wasn't that daft. Jumps all over you when inside or in dog run but otherwise plays 'keep away' with delight and a waggy tail I might add. Been like this since I had her. She's one of the most challenging dogs I have had and if she weren't mine I'm sure I could come up with all sorts of ideas. She is however and it's driving me nuts (but she has no idea) Yes I help other people with dogs but we never know it all and any advice welcome! I think she has had tennis balls chucked for her willy nilly where she came from. Hence the stand off. Tried being uninteresting. Tried turning my back. Tried everything I can think of. She has also been to a trainer friend of mine the last two weeks because he was saying he didn't have anything to train so told him he could take her to have a play with. (Have utmost respect for friend and 100% knew he wouldn't spoil her) Made no difference whatsoever. Edited December 4, 2015 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) What's recall ? you must have sold the wrong dog ! Does she like her food ? perhaps try giving her all her daily rations as rewards rather than just treats , a good hand full of kibble every time she comes near you ?? Edited December 4, 2015 by fenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Tried it Food nowhere near as exciting as exploring... And she knows the difference between a long line and off it btw... Edited December 4, 2015 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Only one other option then -------- buy another Lab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Nope I'm going to get this girl going if it kills me!!!she has shizzle like I've never seen before Edited December 4, 2015 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 small confined space would be my choice for a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yup tried it, she knows the difference the little horror!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Only one other option then -------- buy another Lab Nobody could ever match up to Edward <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I don't know a lot about proper training. but my present dog ( a lab) is very stand off ish on retrieves always has been soft as grease (spineless)which makes things hard training wise. the only thing I could do was ignore her to get her in, loves attention. this is I know not correct really but horses for courses, every dog is different, they lack in some areas and make up for it in others, she is the most athletic driven dog I've ever had, ATB in your quest. Chuck out the rule book and have fun with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) This one loves attention and desperately wants to be with you but when it comes to that 'personal space' it's a different matter! She is a conundrum but I do like a challenge, it's very interesting trying to find out what makes her tick. Give me training other people's dogs / other dog's people any day, it's far easier lol Edited December 4, 2015 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Have u tried lieing flat out on the ground and let it climb over u? Or turnng back/side on and kneeling down ignoring her? Has she bonded with any other dog in ur kennel? Any of the above with another dog hoping she will follow the other dog in or get jealous? possibly kennel her with another dog to see if that would help with the above? Possibly add the other dog in the kennel/run environment where it is happy being close, play with both a few times daily for a week or 2 and try to move slowly out into more open areas? My pointer is a bit like that all other dogs are enjoying a good clap/play while he'll often just lie watching every thing chewing his bone Otherwise do u do any lead work with them at that age? Possibly let it heel on a lead carrying a dummy? Or higher value treat? piece of meat or somehing truely irresitable, ideally something u could keep a hold of as she ate itor licked it?. Could u feed her in the open and slowly over time creep nearer her while she feeds until eventually close and clapping? Think out of totally random ideas, doubt they are much good, probably something that u need her to come to u rather than trying to get close to her ad force the issue,may just take time and patience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 how about curling up in a ball with the treat/ball etc near you. Later by your tummy etc, don't look at her during this time - just face the floor but do communicate with her ....... feel free to ignore if this is a mad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 This one loves attention and desperately wants to be with you but when it comes to that 'personal space' it's a different matter! She is a conundrum but I do like a challenge, it's very interesting trying to find out what makes her tick. Give me training other people's dogs / other dog's people any day, it's far easier lol We have spocker bitch just like this - I thought it was me and was toying with comming to you - so when you find the answer let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Hi Big bird Sorry your having a problem 😖 Only walks on the lead for ages Until it accepts your ok ( may work ) High value treat like chocolate spread smeared on your hand so it has to lick it off or something it realy likes But i would try scots lads ideas first 😋 Best of luck Of Ps I know chocolate is bad for them but I'm sure you'll get the idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Thanks all! Tried all ( and got very muddy in the process)!! Being with / without another dog makes no odds, have tried her being with / without others of varying temperaments. Still not working. She's a strange one alright, not come across anything like it before Think I may just handcuff her to my wrist so she's with me 24/7, the pest will have to acquiesce then surely lol Edited December 4, 2015 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I have a springer bitch who was similar at that age (although not quite as bad). She too is mad about tennis balls and I used this to bring her closer i.e. she only got the next retrieve until she was at my side. With mine, she always wanted the tennis ball that I had in my hand, even if she had one in her mouth already, which meant that I could sent her for a retrieve and if she stayed away I could produce another ball from my pocket which would draw her in. I was then able to work on delivery to hand and then sit at side before the next retrieve was thrown. I know you said that all retrieving has been stopped, but in my case it was a lever I could use to develop the behaviour I wanted. No idea if this would work for yours but thought I'd share in case it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Thanks Andy but previously I think she's had a lot of tennis balls thrown for her so instead of coming in she will hang back and be very looky. Anyway, I've had an idea. It's a bit of a bonkers idea so I'm not going to share it yet in case it doesn't work!! Fingers crossed!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinach Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Bigbird, Wow good luck. Sounds like she's trying to break you. Battle of wills. I can see why your trying she sounds bright and determined. John. Edited December 5, 2015 by spinach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wj939 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 2 things I might try myself, both based on a positive distraction. Is she relatively steady to a tennis ball? I would try and recall her then give her a distraction , retrieve, bang at the other end of the field, whatever ticks her interest. Then slowly approach her and try and condition her to being along side you. It does sound like this might be a similar scenario to what you've tried. Alternatively, have you thought of using a clicker? I'm a massive fan for very specific behavioural problems. I would by what ever means necessary, including pressure which I might add if all else failed, get her sat along side me from a recall whistle. Then click and chuck a ball. It sounds like she's ball keen. Won't do the steadiness much good but you can get that back. So whistle in, get close, click, throw. She should learn the process pretty quickly and it should modify her behaviour to come closer on the recall but as you know you need consistency in what you decide is close enough. It may also be she trying her luck? Although difficult to say without seeing it, but I'm sure you'd recognise that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Was thinking of try to do something inside the run/kenel that u could transfer to outside and the dog would associate it, (my idea with another dog) WJ's suggestion of a clicker could be the ideal thing for it. Another wildcard possibly take her/bring a decent dog behaviorist type person in. May have a completely different way of looking at the problem to a gundog trainer. Possibly the different mindset or a different pair of eyes will pick up on some body language or smething? When u watch that dog whisper tv programme it amazes me how quickly he brings some dogs/owners round, all to do with different energies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Keep us posted bigbird. Keen to hear how you resolve this one - which I'm sure you will, judging by your reputation on here :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Have you tried heeling with rapid multiple direction changes or similar to get her to follow you and not able think about other "exciting" things. Basically keeping her so busy she has to concentrate on you and no time to anticipate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Thank you all for your suggestions! Going to start work proper with her on Monday, I'll let you know how i get on x Keep us posted bigbird. Keen to hear how you resolve this one - which I'm sure you will, judging by your reputation on here :-) How kind, I hope I do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I'll start another topic if that would be helpful so everyone can learn by my failures and (fingers crossed!!!) success Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 2 things I might try myself, both based on a positive distraction. Is she relatively steady to a tennis ball? I would try and recall her then give her a distraction , retrieve, bang at the other end of the field, whatever ticks her interest. Then slowly approach her and try and condition her to being along side you. It does sound like this might be a similar scenario to what you've tried. Alternatively, have you thought of using a clicker? I'm a massive fan for very specific behavioural problems. I would by what ever means necessary, including pressure which I might add if all else failed, get her sat along side me from a recall whistle. Then click and chuck a ball. It sounds like she's ball keen. Won't do the steadiness much good but you can get that back. So whistle in, get close, click, throw. She should learn the process pretty quickly and it should modify her behaviour to come closer on the recall but as you know you need consistency in what you decide is close enough. It may also be she trying her luck? Although difficult to say without seeing it, but I'm sure you'd recognise that. Hiya nope not steady to anything we have just started 'training'. I had three other pups from the same place and they all absolutely fine with recall whether in the run of out of it It's just her the little cow lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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