Cheddite 100 meter shells test

[rjimmer]

Watch this space, three loaded, nobels 80+card+fibre wad+shot+split shot cup+roll crimp

Just right for putting in an alarm gun just inside the shed door.

[Underdog]

This is a bit different, and more affective than pouring molten wax in amongst the shot, though.

never done that, never needed to and probably never will.

 

Just right for putting in an alarm gun just inside the shed door.

Not got a shed bud but I will bear it in mind.

[sitsinhedges]

There's no way I would use a cut shell and force half a cartridge case up the barrel. Not when you could just do something interesting with selotape much more safely. Not that I would ever do that either.

[Old farrier]

Hi😂

 

So have we now decided that there is sufficient energy in number 4 shot to punch a hole through a pallet at 100 yards ?

Just a note to the utube watchers if you actually try them you will find they work better through a open choke

Just a thought 😋😋

All the best

Of

Edited January 22, 2016 by Old farrier

[swingit]

Hi

 

So have we now decided that there is sufficient energy in number 4 shot to punch a hole through a pallet at 100 yards ?

Just a note to the utube watchers if you actually try them you will find they work better through a open choke

Just a thought

All the best

Of

But your statement is flawed though.......

 

Will a single No4 shot go through a pallet at 100 yards.......NO!

[Old farrier]

But your statement is flawed though.......

 

Will a single No4 shot go through a pallet at 100 yards.......NO!

the cartridge loaded with number 4 shot punched a hole through It 😋

the shot held together = pattern all be it tight from the test gun 😋

Both I was told earlier in the week couldn't happen due to insufficient energy 😋

Buy and try a few

 

All the best

Of

Note I prefer the 60 meter version 😋

[neutron619]

the cartridge loaded with number 4 shot punched a hole through It

the shot held together = pattern all be it tight from the test gun

Both I was told earlier in the week couldn't happen due to insufficient energy

Buy and try a few

 

All the best

Of

Note I prefer the 60 meter version

 

"Shot held together" - i.e. as one projectile. This is not a #4 pellet - it's a whole load of #2 / #4 / whatever behaving as a 35 gram slug and you know it.

 

Or are you going to tell us that people's home made slugs manufactured from an ounce of #6 shot and candle wax are a scientific demonstration of the penetrative ability of a #6 pellet?

 

The only things with which you should be shooting birds at 120 metres are rifles or cameras.

[swingit]

the cartridge loaded with number 4 shot punched a hole through It

the shot held together = pattern all be it tight from the test gun

Both I was told earlier in the week couldn't happen due to insufficient energy

Buy and try a few

 

All the best

Of

Note I prefer the 60 meter version

Would you agree though that a single No4 shot "would not punch a hole through it" ?.

 

I may take my .222 on the pheasant tomorrow

Edited January 22, 2016 by swingit

[dipper]

the cartridge loaded with number 4 shot punched a hole through It

the shot held together = pattern all be it tight from the test gun

Both I was told earlier in the week couldn't happen due to insufficient energy

Buy and try a few

All the best

Of

Note I prefer the 60 meter version

You've just watched a video useing a cartridge loaded with no 2 shot throu 1/4 choke how do 60 metri cartridges differ? Dipper.

[Old farrier]

You've just watched a video useing a cartridge loaded with no 2 shot throu 1/4 choke how do 60 metri cartridges differ? Dipper.

They open out sooner a slightly different design and load

 

So have we have established that the wad and shot don't nessesarily seperate as we think or have been told

If the cartridge is loaded in a slightly different manner or with different components it behaves differently

No 4 shot will go 100 yards

And if you hit a bird with one of these cartridges it won't nessesarily be wounded

As I see it

Anyway as said before

Buy a few and try them

 

Just my thoughts

All the best

Of

[rjimmer]

The pellets went through paper at 120 yrds, but how far into the timber did it penetrate? I suspect it may have behaved/penetrated like a pellet from a traditional cartridge at a much shorter range, but no evidence in the video.

[neutron619]

What I want to know is what happens when the cartridge doesn't behave as designed and seperate at all. The video above isn't at all clear that it's simply distance that causes the "cap" part to turn and release the shot and the creator clearly acknowledges that at 120 yards the wad / shot hit the ground and splattered onto the board. Shoot enough of them and I bet you find one that goes up and comes down intact. God forbid that happens when there's a line of beaters 500 yards in front of the guns and someone gets killed.

[Guest stevo]

What I want to know is what happens when the cartridge doesn't behave as designed and seperate at all. The video above isn't at all clear that it's simply distance that causes the "cap" part to turn and release the shot and the creator clearly acknowledges that at 120 yards the wad / shot hit the ground and splattered onto the board. Shoot enough of them and I bet you find one that goes up and comes down intact. God forbid that happens when there's a line of beaters 500 yards in front of the guns and someone gets killed.

You could always contact cheddite about your concerns ?

Edited January 23, 2016 by stevo

[B25Modelman]

IMHO useless for flying game or vermin.

 

I can't even see the target other than when he is standing next to it.

 

Beware of microlites, hang gliders, Boing 737, 747, 757 etc in the background.

[Hamster]

What I want to know is what happens when the cartridge doesn't behave as designed and seperate at all. The video above isn't at all clear that it's simply distance that causes the "cap" part to turn and release the shot and the creator clearly acknowledges that at 120 yards the wad / shot hit the ground and splattered onto the board. Shoot enough of them and I bet you find one that goes up and comes down intact. God forbid that happens when there's a line of beaters 500 yards in front of the guns and someone gets killed.

 

That's my point, how can you be sure that if it hasn't seen fit to separate at 100 yards that it will do so at all ? On a separate thread I also mentioned about the implausibility of accuracy at such ranges, few of us would claim our shotguns to be pinpoint dead-on at 35 yards, most will be measurably off centre without us knowing, caring or it affecting every day performance.

 

I wouldn't take a large bet I could even hit a 30" pattern sheet 5x5 at 120 yards or even less with such a projectile which is clearly not designed with aerodynamics in mind unlike say real slugs which can be fairly accurate. If you can't hit a static sheet at the intended range what's to say you could hit a 30 mph bird at an angle you know not and a range you couldn't possibly know.

[rjimmer]

You could always contact cheddite about your concerns ?

+1

[Dougy]

The idea has been done before years ago, they called it "Double Impact" if my memory serves me correct. Not out to 120 though, a slight variation.

[Guest stevo]

We was doing this a long time ago for foxes . Using size 4 shot . Basicly reload a fibre wad shell but put a plaswad with the bottom cut off and slide over the shot. Was a bit of faffing around as there was a fair bit of trimming involved but once you had it sussed it was fine . At the time it was a cheep and legal way of making an effectice fox shell . And out to 50 maybe 60 yrds they were very very reliable .

 

So really its nothing new . Just an old idea tarted up .

Edited January 23, 2016 by stevo

[neutron619]

You could always contact cheddite about your concerns ?

 

Well I may ask the question, so to speak. The thing is, chap in the video took four shots as I recall - 50m, 75m, 100m and 120m. We didn't see any of those shots produce a pattern on the plate without some kind of interference from an external factor (i.e. the ground on the 120 yard shot).

 

The other thing I noticed, was that when he showed the box of cartridges after use, he seemed to have fewer shells left than shots on the video, which makes me wonder if it took more than one attempt to get on the paper for those longer shots?

 

I agree with the comment above that our guns can be a bit "off" even at 35 yards, but if you're firing what's effectively a 35 gram slug with potentially 2000ftlbs+ kinetic energy about the place, it's a bit irresponsible not to be "bang on" in my book. I don't think there's any way one could predict where that "slug" was going to end up, within any reasonable margin.

 

Take an equivalent example: if someone was firing a 6.5x55mm or a .25-06 around the place and was getting only accurate enough to get onto a target 3 feet wide, there would be a lot of eyebrows raised, because the vast majority of us would expect even a beginner to manage to shoot 3 ​inches at 100 metres with a properly zeroed rifle.

 

I'm not saying the shells can't do what they're advertised to do, but some of us would probably struggle to identify quarry at 120 metres given age and eyesight and most of us would have no chance of putting a pattern in the right place at that distance, even if they do what the manufacturer claims, 100% of the time.

Edited January 23, 2016 by neutron619

[wymberley]

Chatting to another member, it was calculated that if this load had the same BC as a well known quality single slug, then taking the range at which the load 'opened' to be 50 yards and in turn taking that velocity as that for the muzzle velocity of a single No 3 (odds on are that the Italian No 4 will be that English size) then at 100 yards the residual energy would be c1.9 ft/lbs. Problem is is that load will have a BC more akin to a house brick so that isn't going to happen. It's worth noting that this Italian offering is designed for passing migrating game which probably relates to something the size of a starling. Yep, that might work.

[Continental Shooter]

I wouldn't advise you lot to reload these type of shells, but then again, what do i know?

 

These shells are designed for target shooting more often than not, in fact, in continental Europe there are even competition for these (mostly in local fairs)

 

The trick is in the wad, it must be a specific wad with a design which generates enough turbulence at a specific speed to allow it to turn around and release the pellets.

 

of course, if you haven't proof tested your cartridge, you won't know the V0 - V1, then you can't calculate the exact distance at which your wad will turn or how to adjust the shell to make it turn at a specific distance.

 

Some people used to add flour in the wad so that, on turning, it would generate a visible cloud and they could adjust according to their needs, clay powder (the one on tennis court) would do as well.

 

To reload these shells you need slow, very consistent powders (tecna, A0, etc) and primers (so, no CX1000), and millions of test runs to fit the shells to your gun and choke.

 

These shells will be very sensitive to changes, so, even a change in choke will alter the balance of the shell and make it perform completely different.

 

So, reloading without the necessary knowledge will generate shells which my be overpressure, too slow/fast, turn at different distances or not turn at all.

 

The worries expressed in earlier post will find justification if these shells are used in crowded places or whilst shooting through obstacles, say the wad hits a rock or a trunk, then it will move around like bullet or, even worst, break and generate a cloud of deadly pellets.

 

So, whilst i am not entirely against using them or reloading them, i do stress the fact that you need to do lots of research of forums where there are qualified people whom will be able to advise on the safety of it all.

[Continental Shooter]

It's worth noting that this Italian offering is designed for passing migrating game which probably relates to something the size of a starling.

 

what do you mean??

[dipper]

what do you mean??

Flock shooting song birds .Dipper

[rjimmer]

Why are people assuming that the wad did not spill the shot until it hit the ground?

[grrclark]

Why are people assuming that the wad did not spill the shot until it hit the ground?

If the wad had spilled the shot in flight you would not expect the wad to arrive at the pattern plate 120m away at the same time as the shot and certainly not with enough force to splash up a load of mud. The wad would slow massively in flight once the shot has been spilled.

 

Besides that on the video there is a splash of mud then the pellets hit the plate which says to me the wad/shot hit low and then the shot was spilled.