rjimmer Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 If the wad had spilled the shot in flight you would not expect the wad to arrive at the pattern plate 120m away at the same time as the shot and certainly not with enough force to splash up a load of mud. The wad would slow massively in flight once the shot has been spilled. Besides that on the video there is a splash of mud then the pellets hit the plate which says to me the wad/shot hit low and then the shot was spilled. Watch it again, and listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 To me it looks like the loaded wad hit the mud then spilled the shot. As said above it would not have made that distance had it spilled shot earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Watch it again, and listen. I am speculating of course and it could be that the rest of the shot kicked up the mud and the shot had already spilled from the wad. The wad did look very clean and undamaged. As many have commented I think it is probably a fairly worthless cartridge for bird shooting, but an awesome choice for fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 The kicked up grass and turf appeared to be just behind the target after the 100mtr shot , so the projectile was dropping quite a bit at that range. If the wad from the 120mtr shot did not open until at least 100mtrs, it could easily have reached the target. Most plaswads travel 20+yrds, after opening up as they leave the barrel. The earlier deviation due to wind is born out by the position of the pattern and the wad, I would say. I agree that the only real use would appear be at static targets at over 100 mtrs. Using lighter-than-lead shot might mean that they were spilled at a different range, perhaps. Punt-gunners might be able to shed some light on that. The commentary was in an English accent, so perhaps we could find out how far the pellets penetrated the wood. Mentioning Yards in earlier posts was by mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 It’s not the cartridge that I see as the issue, it’s the shooter that will be calculating the down-range integrity of their backstop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 I tried three I loaded last night. Never patterned them but out of the three I got two birds at normal distances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 I tried three I loaded last night. Never patterned them but out of the three I got two birds at normal distances. 😋 Thank you All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hi Just to add a little to this most of you that have watched the utube thing are assuming that the cartridge when fired horizontal behaves the same way when fired vertical 😊 Amazing realy last week a 45 yard bird was out of 12 bore range and a fluke pellet may wound it now by adding a wad to a cartridge you won't stand within 300 yards and the cartridge will kill starling size birds at 120 yards Cheddite don't make these 10 at a time they make thousands and only if there is a mass market Just a thought All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 You're right Nigel, without trying it out then how can we know. I shall see if I can find a box for curiosity sake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingit Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Each to their own and all that but. These are certainly not for me and I really don't see the point in using the 60 meter shell when a good quality 32grm 5 will do the job at that range. If they work for you Old farrier then that's all that matters. Best wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Hi Just to add a little to this most of you that have watched the utube thing are assuming that the cartridge when fired horizontal behaves the same way when fired vertical Amazing realy last week a 45 yard bird was out of 12 bore range and a fluke pellet may wound it now by adding a wad to a cartridge you won't stand within 300 yards and the cartridge will kill starling size birds at 120 yards Cheddite don't make these 10 at a time they make thousands and only if there is a mass market Just a thought All the best Of Good point, how much are they for a box of 10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Good point, how much are they for a box of 10? £10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB1954 Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 I assume these cartridges have warnings on the box about extended range etc and that it makes it clear the wad does not open and release the shot on leaving the barrel but at some point down range. If that is the case I really do not see what all the fuss was about on PW earlier. However I would say given the way they work they have no place on a driven shoot, extended range walk up rough and vermin shooting, maybe if that's what you want. For myself I will stick with lead HV size 4 or 5 for my long range shotgun vermin [crows etc]. I would be interested to see how these Cheddites work with larger shot say 0.160" to 0.200" dia [bB - AAA] that may make an effective extended range fox load but until that happens I will stick with my 1.25oz of lead 0.180" dia shot for further out fox. A shotgun is a 30 - 40 yard tool for most folk anything further requires practice and load development then more and more practice before going for live game/vermin. We are all responsible for our own and others safety. Be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 While not for one minute doubting what OF and UD have said regarding the shorter range performance, but simply taking into account the shot size - could have erred here in my earlier post and the size could well be English #4 as I used the Continental size comparison as opposed to the Italian - and the manufacturers' specified usage at the distance detailed, I can't seem to stop the word, 'browning' springing to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Fox drive stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Fox drive stuff. Ten seconds before I limped away as fast as possible from the one and only fox drive I've ever been on, it was my turn to be a standing gun. Someone shouted, "hare" and someone else, "don't shoot" and someone else shot me in the feet. One of these would have blown my leg off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Flock shooting song birds .Dipper That's what i thought unfortunately .... really no point for such a politically correct country such as UK to speak of something you got no knowledge or experience of .... is it? you guys should really try then decide if it's more sport to shot songbirds or driven birds.... Out of curiosity, how many of you have ever seen migrating thrush, skylark or blackbirds? and how many have shot them at all in olive trees field? i am sure you wouldn't even be able to see them....never mind having a pop at shooting them....as, unlike these big poultry that fly with their wing open overhead, this songbirds will come at you at 60 Km/h and you only have a couple of meters to fire before they hide behind the next olive tree.... Also, just to highlight the nonsense of the previous sentence about the Italian offering: pellet size 2 is 0.25 gr 36 gr: 144 pellets Thrushes, likewise blakbirds migrate in groups of up to 6 birds very exceptionally reaching 10 individuals .... they normally fly up to 50 mt .... how effective would you think that load would be? also, given a skylark is abot 5 cm and a thrush 8 cm, looking at the shot taken at 120 mt what are the chances of hitting few birds? I think sometimes people should switch to 'on' before sentencing .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Each to their own. I don't really see the point of shooting songbirds. Is there any bird life left in Italy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyflier Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 That might explain the disappearance of the Thrush, skylark, blackbird, starling etc. Just to think................we had blamed it on changes to farming methods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry931 Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Could work well on big open fields if you aim to hit the ground just in front of the target and spill the shot like in the video. Some people still chase foxes at night on the back of a landrover pickup with shotgun, could work well for that. Too dangerous to use with other people around though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Personally, I can't see it as in any way an acceptable cartridge for UK sport shooting or for vermin control. It looks like the pattern is inconsistent, downrange energy when the wad eventually does flip is questionable, and for all the touted uses (eg fox) there's a already a FAR better alternative in just about any CF rifle you care to mention. I woudn't dream of using these on anything. Each to their own though. As for shooting song birds... Edited January 24, 2016 by Savhmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 That's what i thought unfortunately .... really no point for such a politically correct country such as UK to speak of something you got no knowledge or experience of .... is it? you guys should really try then decide if it's more sport to shot songbirds or driven birds.... Out of curiosity, how many of you have ever seen migrating thrush, skylark or blackbirds? and how many have shot them at all in olive trees field? i am sure you wouldn't even be able to see them....never mind having a pop at shooting them....as, unlike these big poultry that fly with their wing open overhead, this songbirds will come at you at 60 Km/h and you only have a couple of meters to fire before they hide behind the next olive tree.... Also, just to highlight the nonsense of the previous sentence about the Italian offering: pellet size 2 is 0.25 gr 36 gr: 144 pellets Thrushes, likewise blakbirds migrate in groups of up to 6 birds very exceptionally reaching 10 individuals .... they normally fly up to 50 mt .... how effective would you think that load would be? also, given a skylark is abot 5 cm and a thrush 8 cm, looking at the shot taken at 120 mt what are the chances of hitting few birds? I think sometimes people should switch to 'on' before sentencing .... Regret the delay in answering your question - although Dipper kindly and correctly did it for me - but I've been trying in vain to sort this out as it does not make sense: "Essentially, the table shows that the smaller the pellet the quicker it'll lose speed at distance, hence effectiveness. a 30 mt the 4.5 mm pellet will retain a speed of 265 m/s whereas the 2 mm pellet will travel at a speed of 167 m/s" With regard to the "nonsense" quoted above, please refer to Posts #29 - 33 and 35. Pellet size No 2 is c3.9gr. Cannot, though, fault your final quoted remark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala59 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 To resurrect this thread rather than start another, I was browsing Clay and Game for components and saw the Fibre Shot Cup, which, to be fair, is stated "should be cut almost full length with a sharp blade" It occurred to me that "Not" cutting would achieve a similar effect to that which has been detailed on this thread, a sort of "Birdshot Slug" or BS, I await for my naivety to be corrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 It wouldn't work that way. Lots of carts don't open properly or not at all when fired. The long range carts have another cup put on opposite way a type of cap to keep it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 It wouldn't work that way. Lots of carts don't open properly or not at all when fired. The long range carts have another cup put on opposite way a type of cap to keep it together. And the magic part is how it knows when to seperate and spread the pellets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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