EU In or out

[KFC]

Does anyone know if there has been an official projection of what UK defence would look like out of the EU?

 

ATB

 

Matt

My opinion is that the UK's defence is now inextricably linked with the US.

Trident, type 45 destroyers, F35, Reapers, so much software. For years now we've been a US aircraft carrier anchored off of europe so our 'special relationship' with the US will ensure our defence.

Until we're of no strategic use to them of course.

[old'un]

Does anyone have a guess what might happen to interest rates if we leave? I'm guessing they'd go up...?

Good!

[AVB]

Does anyone have a guess what might happen to interest rates if we leave? I'm guessing they'd go up...?

 

Depends on how much sterling falls by and whether the BoE raises rates to protect it. My prediction is a minor uptick in rates. Perhaps 50 basis points in the short term. Rates are low across the globe so they won't leap overnight.

[paulnix]

 

I also see farmers are saying they would prefer to remain IN the EU, is that because of farm subsidies they receive or the large numbers of cheap foreign labour they use on the land or both?

 

I'm voting out, let the chips fall where they may regarding farming, i'd rather think I voted to try and make things better for my children than worry about getting subsidies when we should be able to earn a living without them, one thing it can't get much worse that's for sure before there are none left.

I read defra got 2 teams of smart people working on future projects but no one working on any idea's about what would replace Cap and the labour issue isn't so much cheap labour ( because it isn't, if i hired in harvest labour it would be more than £9 hr through some agencies over £11 hr) but labour, there isn't enough British people willing to work if it could mean them getting wet, cold, dirty, out of bed before 9am, they'd rather be home claiming benefits, often the only British ones willing to work are those already juggling other jobs about working all hours they can.

[KFC]

It wouldn't surprise me if the financial markets drive down the price of GBP, using the threat of a Brexit, then buy GBP at a low price and make a speculative profit.

[AVB]

It wouldn't surprise me if the financial markets drive down the price of GBP, using the threat of a Brexit, then buy GBP at a low price and make a speculative profit.

If you think that's the case then do it as well.

[Paul223]

Does anyone have a guess what might happen to interest rates if we leave? I'm guessing they'd go up...?

That would make a change been too low for far too long...

[hedge]

I'm now very much thinking of an OUT vote.

 

Most of the current discussions/arguments are politically motivated and not really about economic impacts.

 

The EU is not a private club and it's members will still trade with us if it makes economic sense.

 

Sure, the market might be a bit volatile for a while (although arguably, the uncertainty before the vote can actually do more harm). It will recover and life goes on.

 

The EU has cost the UK £££££'s and more ££££'s and what did we get in return?

 

There's only one way to find out.....

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I'm now very much thinking of an OUT vote.

 

Most of the current discussions/arguments are politically motivated and not really about economic impacts.

 

The EU is not a private club and it's members will still trade with us if it makes economic sense.

 

Sure, the market might be a bit volatile for a while (although arguably, the uncertainty before the vote can actually do more harm). It will recover and life goes on.

 

The EU has cost the UK £££££'s and more ££££'s and what did we get in return?

 

There's only one way to find out.....

 

 

An awful lot of unwanted visitors!

[KFC]

As per usual, another thing that Dave is trying to sell us may turn out be another chocolate teapot.

 

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/23/emergency-brake-a-damp-squib-as-minimum-wage-rise-will-outstrip-benefit-loss/

[Rewulf]

 

I'm voting out, let the chips fall where they may regarding farming, i'd rather think I voted to try and make things better for my children than worry about getting subsidies when we should be able to earn a living without them, one thing it can't get much worse that's for sure before there are none left.

I read defra got 2 teams of smart people working on future projects but no one working on any idea's about what would replace Cap and the labour issue isn't so much cheap labour ( because it isn't, if i hired in harvest labour it would be more than £9 hr through some agencies over £11 hr) but labour, there isn't enough British people willing to work if it could mean them getting wet, cold, dirty, out of bed before 9am, they'd rather be home claiming benefits, often the only British ones willing to work are those already juggling other jobs about working all hours they can.

 

Never a truer word said.

And successive governments wont take the hard road to change it.

Theres a good reason there are so many EU migrants here,and its because there are jobs in the UK that home grown brits are too lazy to do,or they consider it demeaning.

Forcing the layabouts of this country to work should be top of the agenda after Brexit,it should have been done 20 years ago,but no government,left or right dare risk it.

Every new generation now sees a life on benefits as an attractive option ,rather than a fall back.

And when theres people who do 40 + hrs of hard graft a week take home less money than family with a brood of kids on benefits,you know that system is messed up.

So who can blame a foreign family thinking that they wouldnt mind a piece of that pie ?

 

Lets get out of the EU, and with the new freedoms that gives us,try and put this country back together again.

[Vince Green]

 

Never a truer word said.

And successive governments wont take the hard road to change it.

Theres a good reason there are so many EU migrants here,and its because there are jobs in the UK that home grown brits are too lazy to do,or they consider it demeaning.

Forcing the layabouts of this country to work should be top of the agenda after Brexit,it should have been done 20 years ago,but no government,left or right dare risk it.

Every new generation now sees a life on benefits as an attractive option ,rather than a fall back.

And when theres people who do 40 + hrs of hard graft a week take home less money than family with a brood of kids on benefits,you know that system is messed up.

So who can blame a foreign family thinking that they wouldnt mind a piece of that pie ?

 

Lets get out of the EU, and with the new freedoms that gives us,try and put this country back together again.

I absolutely agree with you about the benefits culture and our home grown skivers living their whole lives without lifing a finger. The point is we do have to shut the door before too many EU skivers realise there is a better option than working in Britain and that option is NOT working in Britain.

[KFC]

Yes, there's some lazy bods in this country who don't want to work but loads of the East Europeans who come to work on the land live a dozen or more to a house, pay for their rent and transport out of a meagre wage and shop for a tribe.

Much of the UK agricultural and care work does not pay enough to be able to pay rent or mortgage for a single family so, yes, for some, they are better off on benefits but it's not always because of laziness.

[rjimmer]

The point is we do have to shut the door before too many EU skivers realise there is a better option than working in Britain and that option is NOT working in Britain.

Because they soon learn.

[Rewulf]

Yes, there's some lazy bods in this country who don't want to work but loads of the East Europeans who come to work on the land live a dozen or more to a house, pay for their rent and transport out of a meagre wage and shop for a tribe.

If thats the way they want to live ,thats up to them.

As long as they work andabide by the rules,I dont have a problem.

 

Much of the UK agricultural and care work does not pay enough to be able to pay rent or mortgage for a single family so, yes, for some, they are better off on benefits but it's not always because of laziness.

It seems to work well enough for the above mentioned people.

Ill give you an example of how messed up the benefits system is.

These are real people I know.

 

Person A works as a Post office manager, she is contracted to work at least 45 hrs a week,a high stress,high responsibility job dealing with amongst others abusive alcoholics claiming their booze benefits and various rude and abusive nationalities sending money home via moneygram.

Her gross wage is £23000 pa ,she takes home around £325 pw

She has a mortgage and runs a car,she receives no state money.

 

Person B works as a carer at a childrens nursery,she has one pre school child and works 16 hrs a week and is paid £95 pw,she takes home £95 pw but is paid nearly £200 in tax credits per week and receives 75% of her rent as housing benefit,the child is in the nursery she works at when she is on duty,also paid by the state.

 

So as you can see, the unskilled person B is better off than person A.

Person B does not want to work any more hours than 16 because otherwise the tax credits go down pro rata.

 

When Cameron tried to recently sort this ridiculous mess out,he was out voted in parliament by labour and the SNP.

 

So no,its not always about laziness,its quite often about economics,go figure.

[old'un]

Can the mods please tell me if the figure on the 'Off Topic' page for this thread is a total number of individual views or does that number include repeat views, I only ask as there have been about 11000 views and only 500 or so replies for IN or OUT.

[Rewulf]

Can the mods please tell me if the figure on the 'Off Topic' page for this thread is a total number of individual views or does that number include repeat views, I only ask as there have been about 11000 views and only 500 or so replies for IN or OUT.

 

I would think repeat views ,dont think we have 11000 members do we ?

 

I stand corrected ,just checked ,there is at least that many!

How many are active is debateable .

Edited February 24, 2016 by Rewulf

[Psyxologos]

 

The EU has cost the UK £££££'s and more ££££'s and what did we get in return?

 

Here, here and here.Oh, and have a look at this.

[Scully]

Excuse me, i got a bit carried away in my previous post.

 

The point i wanted to make is that we were also threatend by our

government that staying out of the EU would be extremely bad for

our country and that jobs were to be lost etc etc etc.

 

Result :

 

elderly in retirement homes left alone, waiting till evening to get washed

after soiling themselves, because our government cuts in jobs for helping

the elderly.

 

health insurance and dental care is free for the refugees, we pay approx 100 quid

minimum per person each month

 

retirement age lifted from 65 yrs to 67 yrs, plams are to stretch to 70 yrs.

 

our prime minister shouting on friday: " no more money to greece " , on monday

We pay another 650 million euros.

 

that is why ultra right wing is the largest political party in the polls at this moment.

all the others scream that this right wing party is the wrong one to elect and that

people choosing this side are stupid.

 

Well, our political leaders are so full of themselves that they totally ignore what is

going on in the streets, where you and i live.

Instead of scratching their heads WHY right wing is getting the overhand, they just

go to bed and dream about a job in Brussels

 

these are just a few examples

No need to apologise; much of what you've written applies to the UK also.

[secretagentmole]

 

Here, here and here.Oh, and have a look at this.

Your links have more animal by-product fertiliser than truth.

We joined Europe to get a common market, where are goods, like cars, like steel, could sell.

 

Well that worked a storm didn't it. We started to import far more than we exported and in the end what little car industry we have left is, by and large, owned by European companies. Steel. shutting down due to power costs whilst German steel makers enjoy subsidised power prices.

[UKPoacher]

 

Here, here and here.Oh, and have a look at this.

The first is ********, the second makes the assumptions that the UK government would not have brought out similar laws and ignores the EU imposed laws that hamper businesses, the third is pure speculation, as is the fourth.

 

The 'right to retire in Europe' for example is dependent on which EU country you want to retire to. They all differ in respect of health care and taxes. Total ********!

[Scully]

 

Here, here and here.Oh, and have a look at this.

Like I said, let the scare mongering commence.

I don't care about the economic effect; especially based on projections ( guesswork ) engineered to arrive at a desired result for a body with an agenda, and it certainly can't be any worse than the effect the banks had on our economy.

I don't care that much about immigrants; that problem will take care of itself when other European countries start rioting in the streets as they aren't as apathetic as us Brit's, and besides, the banks had a much more dire effect on this country than even the immigrants ever have.

I really don't care if remaining in the EU will guarantee us jobs for life.

Being in the EU hasn't prevented me from being made redundant twice in the last 18 years, and being in the EU didn't prevent a huge local company from being bought by a French company who then made much of the workforce redundant.

I really don't care. What I do care about is not being able to vote in or out any of those faceless unaccountable bureaucrats in Brussels.

[McSpredder]

We joined Europe to get a common market, where are goods, like cars, like steel, could sell.....We started to import far more than we exported.....

Yup, at my school in the 1960s the teachers explained what would happen if we joined the Common Market. Downside was the effect on agriculture - abandoning our old friends in Australia and NZ, and allowing UK to be flooded with cheap food imports from peasant farmers in Europe. The great advantage (we were told) was that folk on the continent would want to buy large quantities of our manufactured goods, especially cars and motorbikes, resulting in great prosperity for places such as Coventry, and glorious times ahead for great names like Alvis, Armstrong Siddeley, Humber, Morris, Riley, Sunbeam, AJS, Ariel, BSA, Francis Barnett, James, Matchless, etc, etc.

 

Here we are again, half a century later. As President Bush might almost have said, "Do the French have an expression for déjà vu?"

[AVB]

 

Here, here and here.Oh, and have a look at this.

Some of these are true, some of this is just speculation from academics.

 

Yes the EU may have enabled cheaper mobile calls across Europe, or forced airlines to pay compensation for delayed flights. We pay net £33mln a day for the privilege. I'll happily live without these 'benefits' and bank the £33mln/day thanks.

[poontang]

 

Here, here and here.Oh, and have a look at this.

 

I'd rather have a look at this. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/24/hungary-viktor-orban-will-call-referendum-on-eu-refugee-quotas

 

You've got to hand it to Viktor... a leader with a pair of cahoona's the likes of which Cameron could only dream of.