Stop this injustice NOW!

[Rewulf]

 

 

Ah, gentlemen the dialogue of the deaf is alive and well on PWs as per usual. I respond to only two points and then leave you to it for a bit. It's the children issue. Many are unaccompanied and that is well documented and they are unaccompanied for a whole variety of reasons. Second point, if you have to ask the question 'what did we do?' Then you must be living in a bubble. The middle East has imploded and we 'the west' largely lead by our closest friend 'uncle sam' have been up to our eyes in it. Its all well and good to conduct a 'just war'. But with war comes moral responsibilities. And as I said from the outset, this does not mean I disagree with the economic migrant argument per se. I simply think a moment of reflection before blanket stereotyping would add some balance.

 

Hundreds of thousands of people don't do this lightly.

 

There but for the grace of God my friends.

 

No ,thats not good enough.

If you are going to use the children to try and make me feel guilty about these 'desperate ' men throwing rocks at people who are trying to help them.

You need to tell me your opinion about why these kids are 'unaccompanied' ,and why its 'well documented'.

I seem to remember a 'well documented' incident last year off the coast of Kos.

Yes, you know the one,a young boy washed up on a beach drowned.

A terrible picture.

Ask yourself this,would you be more interested in taking the picture ,or would you be rushing over to see if there was any hope for life?

Anyway that image got beamed round the world quick time.

 

Cue much hand wringing and guilt, and a rather foolish offer from Mrs Merkel to take in a million poor people.

Now the bodies are washing up on beaches every day,and it barely makes news.

Media mission accomplished.

 

If you think I sound unsympathetic ,you are very wrong.

But I wouldnt put my children in a rubber dinghy with 20 miles of rough sea to battle through.

I wouldnt leave my children unaccompanied in a foreign country no matter what.

 

These images and reports are designed to pull at the heart strings,and with a lot of people it blinds you to the truth.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Rewulf

[Dougy]

The thing is that most of British people will not see, and that's by there own choice....

Is the poverty in our own country, chuck up on the Internet as many pictures of stricken children from all over the world, starving kids, diseased and dying and drowned on the beach,,,

Yes it's heart wrenching it's supposed to be. It's the power of pictures set up by the press.

They should get round the cities in the UK open there eye's a little more and look under there own noses.

But Oh! No we're all fine, bloody codswallop.

If they are letting immigrants in vet them 1st. There's just been a a court case near us, 5 Polish involved in a drug related murder, there's loads of similar stories like this all over the UK.

[oowee]

So here's the thing.

 

1. It is a 'rights' issue. But that doesn't mean they have the 'right' to come to the UK. More importantly, for many it is a humanitarian law issue and those who are refugees should be protected at their first stop outside of the relevant war zone. But setting that aside I would worry at the one size fits all judgement!

2. You would need to be blind not to see the unaccompanied children! Surely everyone's humanity would want to protect them?

3. France needs to do more, but so does the UK. After all, we not blameless for the tide sweeping Europe at the minute.

4. Yes there are economic migrants, but there are also people leaving the above situation and they sure as hell arn't fleeing simply for the 'good life'.

 

Sometimes the simplistic rubbish spouted is beyond belief

Only too true. I wonder where some on here get their news.

[secretagentmole]

So here's the thing.

 

1. It is a 'rights' issue. But that doesn't mean they have the 'right' to come to the UK. More importantly, for many it is a humanitarian law issue and those who are refugees should be protected at their first stop outside of the relevant war zone. But setting that aside I would worry at the one size fits all judgement!

2. You would need to be blind not to see the unaccompanied children! Surely everyone's humanity would want to protect them?

3. France needs to do more, but so does the UK. After all, we not blameless for the tide sweeping Europe at the minute.

4. Yes there are economic migrants, but there are also people leaving the above situation and they sure as hell arn't fleeing simply for the 'good life'.

 

Sometimes the simplistic rubbish spouted is beyond belief.

1) They have passed through several safe countries to get to France, what was wrong with seeking Asylum in any of those then?

2) How the hell did a child get through several countries unaccompanied? They did not, there are relatives with them, they pretend to be alone then suddenly all the relatives start appearing and claiming the right to a family life, known trick, sometimes the kids are not kids either but 18 or 19 years old and refusing any tests that can accurately give their age such as bone density scans etc.

3) Why should France do more? Why should we do more, plenty of safe countries they don't want to live in that they have passed through, some Muslim as well!

4) They are all economic migrants, all of them, a true asylum seeker seeks asylum in the first safe country they get to! They don't keep running across continents!

[rodp]

Truth though isn't it, I defy you to tell me just one thing that makes any of it anything to do with me

Still waiting !!

[old'un]

Ah, gentlemen the dialogue of the deaf is alive and well on PWs as per usual. I respond to only two points and then leave you to it for a bit. It's the children issue. Many are unaccompanied and that is well documented and they are unaccompanied for a whole variety of reasons. Second point, if you have to ask the question 'what did we do?' Then you must be living in a bubble. The middle East has imploded and we 'the west' largely lead by our closest friend 'uncle sam' have been up to our eyes in it. Its all well and good to conduct a 'just war'. But with war comes moral responsibilities. And as I said from the outset, this does not mean I disagree with the economic migrant argument per se. I simply think a moment of reflection before blanket stereotyping would add some balance.

 

Hundreds of thousands of people don't do this lightly.

 

There but for the grace of God my friends.

 

They also know how to use the media, just watch how they hold young kids up for the cameras or push them to the front of any rioting they do, then when the eyes of the kids are streaming with tears from the effects of tear gas they then push them in front of the media saying "look what you are doing to our children" lots of these people seem to have iPhones and you can bet your life they are well clued-up on what works with the media.

[Vince Green]

When I worked in Africa and Asia, it was easy to spot the poor - they were thin, wearing rags, and with few possessions.

 

The would-be immigrants who feature on every TV new bulletin appear to be better fed than I am, better clothed than I am, and carrying mobile electronic devices that are vastly more expensive than mine.

 

What conclusions should I draw?

Thats because the really needy ones are still in the refugee camps on the Syrian border. They haven't got the money to pay the people trafficers. The ones that can make it to Calais almost always are the fittest and the fastest and for the most part aren't Syrian.

[old'un]

Ah, gentlemen the dialogue of the deaf is alive and well on PWs as per usual. I respond to only two points and then leave you to it for a bit. It's the children issue. Many are unaccompanied and that is well documented and they are unaccompanied for a whole variety of reasons. Second point, if you have to ask the question 'what did we do?' Then you must be living in a bubble. The middle East has imploded and we 'the west' largely lead by our closest friend 'uncle sam' have been up to our eyes in it. Its all well and good to conduct a 'just war'. But with war comes moral responsibilities. And as I said from the outset, this does not mean I disagree with the economic migrant argument per se. I simply think a moment of reflection before blanket stereotyping would add some balance.

 

Hundreds of thousands of people don't do this lightly.

 

There but for the grace of God my friends.

 

Typical use a picture of a child and you think the original thread is dissolved, this is not what its about, stop using emotional blackmail we have seen enough of this from the media.

 

Just Google 'refugees rioting in Europe' then come back and tell us its about children, think you will find that most people sympathise with the plight of the children but this is not what they are concerned about, its the thousands of fit young men flooding into European cities and causing problems such as thieving, rioting and rape.

[Gordon R]

old'un - your valid points will be wasted. There are those who just wish to preach and make us feel guilty for something which is not our fault.

 

Where are these apologists when people get beheaded or blown up?

[ordnance]

 

The middle East has imploded and we 'the west' largely lead by our closest friend 'uncle sam' have been up to our eyes in it. Its all well and good to conduct a 'just war'. But with war comes moral responsibilities.

A lot are form pakistan and other countries that are not at war, and nothing to do with uncle sam. The health service etc in the UK caint cope wiyh UK citizens needs charity begins at home. Its the do gooders that are encouraging some to make the dangerous sea crossings that are causting children their lives, if they know that economic migrants will be turned back less will try. PS As for all the celebrities being wheeled out asking us for money i will do a deal with any of them i will give all the money i have in my banck account to charity if they do the same.

Edited March 1, 2016 by ordnance

[chris1961]

 

Typical use a picture of a child and you think the original thread is dissolved, this is not what its about, stop using emotional blackmail we have seen enough of this from the media.

 

Just Google 'refugees rioting in Europe' then come back and tell us its about children, think you will find that most people sympathise with the plight of the children but this is not what they are concerned about, its the thousands of fit young men flooding into European cities and causing problems such as thieving, rioting and rape.

So poignantly put they are just scrum they want to get to UK sole purpose is for benefits I had a heart attack a couple of years ago damaged the left side of my heart been told not sick enough for sick pay to sick for work how Barmy does it get yet you see them at dole office turn up in taxis get paid in cash and from what I've seen more than I do they can't even speak english

Edited March 1, 2016 by chris1961

[scutt]

In my opinion the media are not reporting the unbiased truth but are feeding on the events and escalating what they deem to be the issue and that is the uk is not taken its share of these people so when the gov caves in and accepts a few thousand more refugees it may spark riots in the uk and so keep the hacks in a job win win situation for the media.If we decide to take the kids inn what's the betting the family will turn up to be with them.The young men of Syria who are fighting for a better life get my respect .

[UKPoacher]

A lot are form pakistan and other countries that are not at war, and nothing to do with uncle sam. The health service etc in the UK caint cope wiyh UK citizens needs charity begins at home.

 

There is and has been has been distinctions between the genuine refugees fleeing war from places such as Syria and Iraq and economic migrants from Pakisatan, Nth Africa and other countries. For me we should be acting with France, Germany and Uncle Sam to help the genuine refugees from war zones. And sending the others back. Of course that is the simplistic answer as many of those we would send back won't tell us where they came from. So where do you send them to? No country will willingly accept them unless their identity can be established beyond doubt. Once you have sorted the true refugees from the others there is a massive problem as to what to do with the others. That is the dilemma that the EU cannot solve. And Uncle Sam seems unwilling to help.

[Dr D]

Still waiting !!

I have returned!!!

 

So, I assume you are a UK citizen? In which case HM government, represents you and I. When they act they do so in our name! Embarrassing quite often, but nonetheless there is the truth.

 

Their actions helped cause this crisis. Their inactions have failed to resolve it.

We (the UK), therefore have some responsibility to act to assist refugees on at least two counts.

 

And incidentally refugees legally are not exactly the same as asylum seekers, but there you go.

 

Children are innocent's regardless of the blame game and whataboutery! I live in a compassionate democracy that has a proud history of helping the most vulnerable.

 

I don't think we should open the gates or let economic migrants in. But I sure as hell don't think the UK should do a Pontius Pilate.

[secretagentmole]

 

There is and has been has been distinctions between the genuine refugees fleeing war from places such as Syria and Iraq and economic migrants from Pakisatan, Nth Africa and other countries. For me we should be acting with France, Germany and Uncle Sam to help the genuine refugees from war zones. And sending the others back. Of course that is the simplistic answer as many of those we would send back won't tell us where they came from. So where do you send them to? No country will willingly accept them unless their identity can be established beyond doubt. Once you have sorted the true refugees from the others there is a massive problem as to what to do with the others. That is the dilemma that the EU cannot solve. And Uncle Sam seems unwilling to help.

Simple, all over Europe there are lots of unused military bases, men and women to be segregated, three plain meals a day, any mobile phones to be surrendered and sold or scrapped, any goods, jewellery or money over £125 worth to be seized to help pay for their keep, they are to be made to work, sewing mailbags, making number plates, breaking rocks, anything manual and requiring zero talent so no slacking off, they are to be told that is where they will stay for the rest of their lives, or they can tell where they came from and go back!

 

They will be kept safe, housed and fed, they don't like that they can go home!

Edited March 1, 2016 by secretagentmole

[Dr D]

A lot are form pakistan and other countries that are not at war, and nothing to do with uncle sam. The health service etc in the UK caint cope wiyh UK citizens needs charity begins at home. Its the do gooders that are encouraging some to make the dangerous sea crossings that are causting children their lives, if they know that economic migrants will be turned back less will try.

I was in Pakistan not to long ago and if you think there are not genuine asylum (not refugees) coming from there, then I would invite you to visit a church in islamabad on a Sunday and speak to few members of the congregation. And if you think pakistan's problem has nothing to do with the usa, well what can I say.

[ordnance]

 

Their actions helped cause this crisis. Their inactions have failed to resolve it.

We (the UK), therefore have some responsibility to act to assist refugees on at least two counts.

Which refugees are because of actions of the UK. ?

[ordnance]

I was in Pakistan not to long ago and if you think there are not genuine asylum (not refugees) coming from there, then I would invite you to visit a church in islamabad on a Sunday and speak to few members of the congregation. And if you think pakistan's problem has nothing to do with the usa, well what can I say.

Spell it out then, inform us all what America has to do with economic refugees from pakistan and india etc. ?

 

 

Only one in every five migrants claiming asylum in Europe is from Syria.

The EU logged 213,000 arrivals in April, May and June but only 44,000 of them were fleeing the Syrian civil war.

Edited March 1, 2016 by ordnance

[Dr D]

old'un - your valid points will be wasted. There are those who just wish to preach and make us feel guilty for something which is not our fault.

 

Where are these apologists when people get beheaded or blown up?

I am no apologist for terrorism, having experienced bit. Your remarks are pretty offensive buddy and uncalled for.

[Dr D]

Spell it out then, inform us all what America has to do with economic refugees from pakistan and india etc. ?

For dear sake. There is no such thing as a economic refugee! And as for Pakistan, I wouldn't no where to start. Come on, just look through the kyber pass. Start with the mugahadeen supported by the CIA and go from there. The web is long and messy, but don't think as serious view would deny the central role of the USA.

[ordnance]

I was in Pakistan not to long ago and if you think there are not genuine asylum (not refugees) coming from there, then I would invite you to visit a church in islamabad on a Sunday and speak to few members of the congregation. And if you think pakistan's problem has nothing to do with the usa, well what can I say.

Then they should be claiming asylum in the first safe country they arrive in.

[UKPoacher]

Simple, all over Europe there are lots of unused military bases, men and women to be segregated, three plain meals a day, any mobile phones to be surrendered and sold or scrapped, any goods, jewellery or money over £125 worth to be seized to help pay for their keep, they are to be made to work, sewing mailbags, making number plates, breaking rocks, anything manual and requiring zero talent so no slacking off, they are to be told that is where they will stay for the rest of their lives, or they can tell where they came from and go back!

 

They will be kept safe, housed and fed, they don't like that they can go home!

 

It might come to that. And trains carrying the unwanted in goods carriages all the way through Europe to the southern borders and onto ships.

 

Now where have I heard that before......................

[Dr D]

Then they should be claiming asylum in the first safe country they arrive in.

Fair enough. But they arn't. So would you send them back? I am talking about the refugees, not the economic migrants? Because sending families back to ISIS really is not an option. Or may be it is.

[rodp]

I have returned!!!

 

So, I assume you are a UK citizen? In which case HM government, represents you and I. When they act they do so in our name! Embarrassing quite often, but nonetheless there is the truth.

 

Their actions helped cause this crisis. Their inactions have failed to resolve it.

We (the UK), therefore have some responsibility to act to assist refugees on at least two counts.

 

And incidentally refugees legally are not exactly the same as asylum seekers, but there you go.

 

Children are innocent's regardless of the blame game and whataboutery! I live in a compassionate democracy that has a proud history of helping the most vulnerable.

 

I don't think we should open the gates or let economic migrants in. But I sure as hell don't think the UK should do a Pontius Pilate.

Wrong ! yes I'm a UK citizen and yes the Government is SUPPOSED to represent me, but they don't and you know that. I also want out of the eu but my government will not allow the out group to see any papers on my behalf ?

But, even if they did act on my behalf in this case why does that make me responsible for millions of "refugees" ? Nothing to do with me, let their own governments sort it.

On one hand we have these third world countries killing each other, the peasants living in poverty while the rulers live in palaces and I'm expected to help support the peasants? On the other hand we have folk breeding like crazy trying to defy nature and populate a country that's virtually incapable of supporting human life ? And you want me to support them as well.

 

Sorry, nothing to do with me, I don't owe any of them anything and don't want anything to do with them. Turn the dinghy's round before they reach the shore and tow them back out to sea, that way they'll soon stop coming.

[lincs1963]

For dear sake. There is no such thing as a economic refugee! And as for Pakistan, I wouldn't no where to start. Come on, just look through the kyber pass. Start with the mugahadeen supported by the CIA and go from there. The web is long and messy, but don't think as serious view would deny the central role of the USA.

What , exactly, are you suggesting we do to make amends for all our past 'sins'?

Do you have children or grandchildren? What do you think life will be like for them living here in twenty or so years?

High time we started looking after our own first, if there is anything left after that then by all means offer aid to those in need.