Are we being ripped off

[deershooter]

Did a bit of investergation tonight how about this take a look at the four cartridges on the left is an express English Sporter , next on the right is is a Hull soveringn , Next on the right is a Hull pro one then last a Hull Pro one DTL .All the same powder ,All the same wad, all Hull the same primer .

 

The price are per 1000

 

1, Express English Sporter £139

2, Hull Soverign £236

3, Hull Pro-one £225

4, Hull DTL300. £220

 

 

Do you think we are being ripped off ?

 

Can a primer and 6 mm more brass make £97 difference

Edited April 18, 2016 by deershooter

[motty]

The people who are being ripped off are the ones silly enough to pay for premium shells.

[bluesj]

Pattern test them and see

[johnnytheboy]

Holy Smoke!

[MGMPEST]

people will pay more for the high brass, where it has no advantage whatsoever,

[rbrowning2]

English Sporter at £139 is a great price cheapest I have seen them for is £159

 

Good marketing by hull if they can get a lot more for the same that's brand marketing at its best is it not? Good luck to them if they can find the customers loyal to their brand and happy to pay that sort of money for 6mm of bling.

 

Most will never take a cartridge to bits and have no idea how often the same powder or wad is used within different types or makes of cartridges, ignorance is bliss.

[Whitebridges]

Any noticeable difference in the quality of the shot?

[johnnytheboy]

1, Express English Sporter £139 1268fps

2, Hull Soverign £236 1379fps

3, Hull Pro-one £225 1323fps

4, Hull DTL300. £220 1234fps

 

That's the chrono speeds for them! Sporter are quicker than the DTL300!

[figgy]

What's the quantity of powder in each cartridge. Looking on Express cartridges the English sporter is a less powder softer slightly slower shooting Power Red.

 

Superfasts will be the same as other cartridges by Hull and as for one gram less lead shot, the tolerances allowed can leave a 28g cart at 27g or 29g

Edited April 18, 2016 by figgy

[fenboy]

With the top end competition shells chances are there will be far less variance in shot weight / count and powder charges.

I would also expect the shot to be more consistent in size and of a better quality.

 

Is it worth the extra ------ no not for us average joe's but if you are at the top of your game then yes it quite likely is.

[figgy]

Fenboy you make a good point, has anyone stripped carts from different batches to check the consistency of them.

Edited April 18, 2016 by figgy

[widgeon man]

Just because it 'looks' the same doesn't mean it is! However I could be wrong! Quality of shot is v. Important and powder blend. DTL 300 are made slow, DTL targets do not require speed, they require consistent patterns and velocity for consistent shooting.

Even budget cartridges performed more consistently than most shots as we miss the target not the cartridges! A lot of manufacturers share components, with only one small change to the load. Fiocchi Golden Trap are very similar to Official Trap, but pattern tighter with the gold wash, polished shot in my gun

[sitsinhedges]

What's the quantity of powder in each cartridge.

 

Funnily enough I bought 1000 English Sporting yesterday. At £145 from Kibworth SG how could I not. I took one to bits to find 1.66grams of a D20 type powder, 28.2 grams of nice shiny shot slightly smaller than 7.5 with 420 to the ounce and a z24 wad. I shot really well with them too. You really couldn't make them at that price.

[sitsinhedges]

With the top end competition shells chances are there will be far less variance in shot weight / count and powder charges.

I would also expect the shot to be more consistent in size and of a better quality.

 

Is it worth the extra ------ no not for us average joe's but if you are at the top of your game then yes it quite likely is.

 

I think there is a lot of wishful thinking going on here

[fenboy]

 

I think there is a lot of wishful thinking going on here

I don't think there is

[sitsinhedges]

I don't think there is

 

If Deershooter got a pair of pin nosed pliers he could squeeze a few bits of shot. Differences in hardness would be very apparent.

 

I say they are no more or less consistent than each other but I am surprised the cheap English Sporters have such a large powder dose as I was expecting a faster budget powder.

Pattern test them and see

 

Bit late for that

[TONY R]

Get the same four, and send them at a pattern plate post up the patterns from the one and same gun.

I predict the Express english sporter will be the best pattern.

[deershooter]

If Deershooter got a pair of pin nosed pliers he could squeeze a few bits of shot. Differences in hardness would be very apparent.

 

I say they are no more or less consistent than each other but I am surprised the cheap English Sporters have such a large powder dose as I was expecting a faster budget powder.

 

Bit late for that

The problem is the shot size is all different I have a shot hardness tester but it's very simple ,a known weight is dropped from a fixed height to squash the lead shot by comparing the flattened shot gives you an idea of hardness .But shot needs to be the same size to work properly .

[deershooter]

None of the shot looks as good as Proper Cartridges lead shot , don't know where Hull get there lead from ,but I think express comes from Turkey , the express shot looked better than the others , Hull shot was not very shiny and quite black

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Did a bit of investergation tonight how about this take a look at the four cartridges on the left is an express English Sporter , next on the right is is a Hull soveringn , Next on the right is a Hull pro one then last a Hull Pro one DTL .All the same powder ,All the same wad, all Hull the same primer .

 

The price are per 1000

 

1, Express English Sporter £139

2, Hull Soverign £236

3, Hull Pro-one £225

4, Hull DTL300. £220

 

 

Do you think we are being ripped off ?

 

Can a primer and 6 mm more brass make £97 difference

 

NO!

[Guest cookoff013]

we are being ripped off.

[BrowningB525]

None of the shot looks as good as Proper Cartridges lead shot , don't know where Hull get there lead from ,but I think express comes from Turkey , the express shot looked better than the others , Hull shot was not very shiny and quite black

Graphite coating?

[Hamster]

This has been going on for decades but especially so in the new millennium which paved the way for manufacturers hiding their profiteering behind lead price fluctuations. In short they rapidly increased prices when lead was at a high but forgot to lower them when they dropped. The reason you see almost every manufacturers offer a so called budget option is simply because of the lost market share when people refuse to pay these absurdly inflated prices.

 

There is of course a difference between the grades of lead shot used but in no way can that be responsible for the vast difference in prices. The other rip off rarely discussed is the colossal disparity between Game and Clay loads the former usually contains bigger shot which is easier to manufacture and doesn't even need to be particularly hard yet simply because of the fibre wad element and pirty partridge pictures on the package they can cost double clay loads.

[Salopian]

I agree wholeheartedly with Hamster.

Game loads are a relatively small market and short production run, which the manufacturers sight as a reason for high price. BUT they know when clay competition season ends and Game season starts , so could tailor production runs accordingly. When Lead went up they immediately raised prices although they were using stocked lead at the cheaper price, went Lead went down , price remained high , because Oil used in production of plastic wads and cases was high , when oil prices fell , cartridge prices remained high.

Are we being ripped off? Of course we are , we need cartridges and will pay any inflated price.

Buy budget cartridges , enjoy your sport and let the premium market fail due to lack of demand.

Tailor your shooting to what your budget cartridge can effectively damage.

If Game shoots or Clay shoots present targets that require premium cartridges and expert skilled shots and don't get the footfall, watch them change , and very rapidly.

[rbrowning2]

Is not about choice and what the market will stand? How many of us have made a purchase from china via the bay for something that would have cost significantly more in the uk rip off uk? Or is it just the very high overheads companies face in the uk.

The postage alone in the uk would be more than the item and postage all the way from china.

 

Would you rather they charge more for a few game cartridges for a few months of the year or charge less for them and more for the clay cartridges all year round? I am told both the shops and manufactures make very little money from the club type clay cartridges so buy these rather than the status of buying a premium priced cartridge.

 

Like all businesses they are in business to make money and all their staff want a decent wage like any other working person wants and the owners want a return on their investment.

 

No different to any other manufacturing business how much does a car or a washing machine or top meal at a restaurant really cost to make but do we shout rip off?