THE EU - IN OR OUT AND SHOOTING MATTERS

[four-wheel-drive]

Why strange , the EU has dragged us up from a poor broken country in the 1970s to the rich country we have today. Its sheer madness to turn your back on that.

 

Just think back to the days when we had a 3 day working week and power cuts almost weekly , for one spell daily. Our country was deeply in the red , very high unemployment , high taxes , very high inflation. Now we have good wages, low inflation , full employment . Are a very grumbles we have with the EU worth the risk of returning to that. Even the wildfowling is better than it was back in the 1970s. Though the EU cant take any credit for that, or perhaps the money that went into Special areas of Conservation and special protection areas all funded by the EU have assisted in the improvment in our sport.

not that I am a fan but I think that you will find that it was Magy Thacher and her cronies who deregulated the banks and everything so that they could build this crooked banking system that turned us in to the UK bank that everyone in the world uses to move there crooked money around that is how we made our money not the EU.

[Rewulf]

Rewolf both those countries had massive backing from the US and other countries of billions of aid to get them up and standing on their own two feet. As for Greece their problems come from very left wing internal policy and then when things go wrong they then expect the EU to bail them out which they are doing , but only with strings attached to make sure they do not return to their old ways.

 

I understand that,but money alone does not re build a country.

Hard work and the right mindset are essential.

You mention Greece,literally hundreds of billions are being pumped into Greece in 'bail outs'

Bailing them out of what ,apathy ?

Blame it on their governments left wing ideology if you like,and no disrespect here to your thinking but, the EU central command has just the same type of left wing ideals.

Lets hope we can watch from the sidelines,as the whole sorry mess collapses.

[oowee]

 

I understand that,but money alone does not re build a country.

Hard work and the right mindset are essential.

You mention Greece,literally hundreds of billions are being pumped into Greece in 'bail outs'

Bailing them out of what ,apathy ?

Blame it on their governments left wing ideology if you like,and no disrespect here to your thinking but, the EU central command has just the same type of left wing ideals.

Lets hope we can watch from the sidelines,as the whole sorry mess collapses.

Bailing out Greece is maybe part of balancing the economy overall. The problems in parts of the euro zone keep the currency value more competitive than the DM would be, helping Germany make greater profits. Its only right they they should then support less prosperous areas. Similar to what happens in a nation state. The UK is constantly putting money (pumping even) into less advantaged areas of the country to try and improve living standards and competitiveness at the expense of even greater prosperity in other parts. I would not label the Greeks as apathetic, nor less advantaged areas of the UK. Its more a matter of geography, traditional infrastructure and services. Areas in decline now were once the power houses of the economy. Goes around comes around. Power and wealth come and go. China and India in ascendancy.... maybe?

Edited June 18, 2016 by oowee

[Savhmr]

Of course we do not have the power to control things in Europe we have a the same say as the other 27 nations and thats how democracy works.

 

This would suggest that something in the region of 10-20% would be a fair guess for the UK as well (a range that has the added benefit of being backed up by the British Chambers of Commerce’s recent study of regulations).No one agrees on how much legislation and regulation stems from the EU. The 9.1% figure stated by the House of Commons Library is too low, as it only covers Statutory Instruments, not ALL laws; the higher figures of 84%, 75% and even 50% claimed by the likes of Hannan, Farrage and Cameron are based on miscalculations, misunderstandings, or sources unknown, and often derive from parts of the EU other than just the UK – and so with no hard evidence to support them must be dismissed as either too high or inapplicable to the British situation.

What is the true figure? No one knows. So any claims that state hard and fast percentages should – if we’re being intellectually honest – be treated with equal suspicion.

Not that any of this is likely to change the opinions of those eurosceptics convinced of the malicious and all-pervading influence of the EU on our daily lives, of course. But still. I’ve looked for the evidence, and this is what I’ve tracked down. . http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/06/what-percentage-of-laws-come-from-the-eu/

 

No. I do take issue with this misunderstanding about how the EU works which is rolled out time and time again like the old chestnut it is! We actually have NO say in EU policy or law making. I repeat, that stems from the halls of the Un-elected European Council. It is the EC which dictates the direction in which Europe is to head, not any member state. Why is that so hard to understand? It is one of the prime reasons that many Brexiters are voting to leave, and not the issue over immigration which is just another area where we have to take action as we are already the most densely populated country of all the member states. Also, you simply cannot use an out -dated argument about where the UK was in the 1970's an era of unrest.

 

For the record, it was not the EEC that bailed us out of the 3 day working week, it was Maggie Thatchers iron grip on the unions and her policies (including privatisation) which at the time were the right and only thing for this country. Whilst I think that she personally went too far with her privatisation reforms, those policies along with the change to banking regulation brought billions of pounds-worth of investment into the UK which had nothing to do with EEC policy. It was only once those policies came to fruition that we entered a period of sustained growth, and whilst the common market undoubtedly helped with that (as it did with the other member nations) it was not the sole reason nor was it a significant contributing factor.

 

As a member state, we only have a vote on whether to pass or reject what emanates from the European Council, we do not have any say in the final decision which is taken behind closed doors, and in some cases where the decision was already made on what will be passed or not, irrespective of how the MEPs voted. It is a form of democracy, just not the form that we recognise in the UK and it is far too open to corruption as we all very well know. The other thing that shouldn't elude anyone is that both the European Parliament and the European Council have point blank refused to have any independent audit of finances for over 10 years now. Why is that?

Edited June 18, 2016 by Savhmr

[secretagentmole]

Why strange , the EU has dragged us up from a poor broken country in the 1970s to the rich country we have today. Its sheer madness to turn your back on that.

 

Just think back to the days when we had a 3 day working week and power cuts almost weekly , for one spell daily. Our country was deeply in the red , very high unemployment , high taxes , very high inflation. Now we have good wages, low inflation , full employment . Are a very grumbles we have with the EU worth the risk of returning to that. Even the wildfowling is better than it was back in the 1970s. Though the EU cant take any credit for that, or perhaps the money that went into Special areas of Conservation and special protection areas all funded by the EU have assisted in the improvment in our sport.

Ooops some of the people are easily deceived, we were the 5th largest world economy before joining the EU and are currently er, the 5th largest world economy! Done a lot for us hasn't it?

 

If being in the EU was such a good thing why did this happen?

https://www.rt.com/news/346884-switzerland-eu-membership-application-rejected/

 

The Swiss are not stupid and know a good thing when they see one, which is why they did not join!

Edited June 18, 2016 by secretagentmole

[rjimmer]

During the LonRho affair, the fact that someone owning 51% of a company that owned 51% of another company that owned 51% of another company........... had a massive amount of control/power, was described as 'the unacceptable face of capitalism'. The way that the EU conducts its business is the 'unacceptable face of democracy', just like the union block votes.

It's like the town halls where the Officers can get the councilors to pass what ever they like.

Edited June 18, 2016 by rjimmer

[anser2]

I do not know why the Swiss voted not to join the EU , perhaps it was just inward looking small minded thinking rather like their banking system giving refuge to tax exiles , people who should be paying their fair share to society.

 

I have no love for the EU, infact dislike it , but you have to be in the club if you want to prosper in the modern world. It the same as if I want to go wildfowling then I have to join a wildfowling club, that is unless I am very, very rich then I can go my own way . That seem to remind me of someone else who wants to leave a club, Boris, Gould, Duncan Smith all rich and able to do their own thing regardless of the interests of the other members of the club.

 

Its time people looked away from the stupid elements of the EU. How much difference does it make to me if we cant deport some criminal ? very little , what does make a difference is that I may not have enough money to cover my bills ? A hell of a lot.

To stay in the EU ensures that is unlikely to happen, to leave means its very uncertain whether it will or will not happen.

Edited June 18, 2016 by anser2

[Scully]

I do not know why the Swiss voted not to join the EU , perhaps it was just inward looking small minded thinking rather like their banking system giving refuge to tax exiles , people who should be paying their fair share to society.

I have no love for the EU, infact dislike it , but you have to be in the club if you want to prosper in the modern world. It the same as if I want to go wildfowling then I have to join a wildfowling club, that is unless I am very, very rich then I can go my own way . That seem to remind me of someone else who wants to leave a club, Boris, Gould, Dunccan Smith all rich and able to do their own thing regardless of the interests of the other members of the club.

 

I don't understand this. I'm not wealthy at all but am voting to leave 'the club'. We were in 'the club' before during and after the recession. Being in the club didn't prevent myself and others from being made redundant...twice in the space of 15 years. We must have a different idea of the term 'to prosper'.

[Savhmr]

 

I do not know why the Swiss voted not to join the EU , perhaps it was just inward looking small minded thinking rather like their banking system giving refuge to tax exiles , people who should be paying their fair share to society.

 

I have no love for the EU, infact dislike it , but you have to be in the club if you want to prosper in the modern world. It the same as if I want to go wildfowling then I have to join a wildfowling club, that is unless I am very, very rich then I can go my own way . That seem to remind me of someone else who wants to leave a club, Boris, Gould, Duncan Smith all rich and able to do their own thing regardless of the interests of the other members of the club.

 

Its time people looked away from the stupid elements of the EU. How much difference does it make to me if we cant deport some criminal ? very little , what does make a difference is that I may not have enough money to cover my bills ? A hell of a lot.

To stay in the EU ensures that is unlikely to happen, to leave means its very uncertain whether it will or will not happen.

 

 

 

We are looking away from the stupid elements of the EU and no-one with any wit (except those with maybe half a one) would argue that deporting criminals is a prime reason for leaving the EU. Of course it isn't. Who says that you or I or everyone else wont be able to pay their bills? That's pure speculation based on nothing more than scaremongery. Lets wait and see, but we must take the long term view and not the short term view which is what a majority of those wanting to leave that I speak to are looking towards.

[rjimmer]

"The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe."

---- Mikhail Gorbachev

[Danger-Mouse]

 

I don't understand this. I'm not wealthy at all but am voting to leave 'the club'. We were in 'the club' before during and after the recession. Being in the club didn't prevent myself and others from being made redundant...twice in the space of 15 years. We must have a different idea of the term 'to prosper'.

 

Indeed. Back in 2002 I had a job I didn`t love but it was ok and with the minimum wage at £4.20 I was on £7.75 an hour. We worked long days or nights away from home but sometimes just a 4 day week. For a single guy with no responsibilities I was on a very decent whack. Fast forward to today and the same job now pays £7.20 an hour. The price of everything else has gone up but the wage has gone down. So to do the job today I would be scraping by.

 

Is it any coincidence that in 2004 we welcomed a whole host of countries into our labour market and since then wages in some sectors have remained the same or even fallen? Don`t get me wrong I`m sure there are other economic factors that have contributed to the situation but the mass supply of cheap labour must have contributed somewhat.

 

Even one of the Remainians commented that a Brexit would cause wages to rise. Of all the economic arguements I`ve heard that`s the one that means something to me. I really don`t give a damn if the GNP is down by x %age if there`s more money in my pocket at the end of the week. Call that selfish if you like, but you have to look out for yourself these days, no one else is going to.

 

So yes I want to prosper and that`s one reason I`ll be voting "Out" on Thurs.

[Dave-G]

Senior moment lol.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Dave-G

[anser2]

I am sorry DM and Scully that you have lost your jobs or are earning less than you did in the past , but country as a whole and the standard of living is far better than it was 40 years ago.

[Scully]

I am sorry DM and Scully that you have lost your jobs or are earning less than you did in the past , but country as a whole and the standard of living is far better than it was 40 years ago.

 

No apology needed, and I'd agree that the standard of living on the whole has improved, but that applies equally to many countries and not just those in the EU. There are countries within Europe ( and even more outside ) which are prospering without being a member of this 'club'. Refusing to join or wishing to leave doesn't necessarily mean they are 'inward looking' or 'small minded.'

[BRYAN3]

The country as a whole must be better off now,my tv-phone and broadband costs have doubled in 15 years. Unfortunately my income has not.

[Scully]

The country as a whole must be better off now,my tv-phone and broadband costs have doubled in 15 years. Unfortunately my income has not.

 

[ShootingEgg]

 

I have no love for the EU, infact dislike it , but you have to be in the club if you want to prosper in the modern world. It the same as if I want to go wildfowling then I have to join a wildfowling club, that is unless I am very, very rich then I can go my own way . That seem to remind me of someone else who wants to leave a club, Boris, Gould, Duncan Smith all rich and able to do their own thing regardless of the interests of the other members of the club.

 

 

I am no rich man but I go wildfowling and am not part of any club.. I have my own permissions that allow me to and get invited to other peoples land that have ponds. so that throws that out the water completely.. and if we "have" to be part of the "club" why is it that other countries arent... Completely false statement... Almost a scare tactic worthy of letting cameron have that line.

 

Edited June 19, 2016 by ShootingEgg

[Livefast123]

[panoma1]

Watch this and if you are still minded to "remain" you must be either daft or getting some sort of personal financial benefit from the EU!?

[oowee]

Watch this and if you are still minded to "remain" you must be either daft or getting some sort of personal financial benefit from the EU!?

Personal financial benefit. Yes that would be from trying to avoid the economic down turn that is likely to follow a brexit vote.

How brexitiers believe that the country can be better off negotiating with the EU from outside rather than in is beyond me. They must be either daft or getting have enough cash not to worry about the cost.

[Danger-Mouse]

Personal financial benefit. Yes that would be from trying to avoid the economic down turn that is likely to follow a brexit vote.

How brexitiers believe that the country can be better off negotiating with the EU from outside rather than in is beyond me. They must be either daft or getting have enough cash not to worry about the cost.

 

Higher wages are also likely following a Brexit, at least for some people. That would seem to be a personal financial benefit.

 

Better negotiating with them like Cameron did? Getting a few scraps from the table, if that, whilst also negotiating away some of our existing rights. They knew there was a referendum on the cards and still gave nothing of worth away. They are not willing to reform unless it is to the benefit of their ultimate cause, a Federal Europe.

 

I`m neither daft nor well off but I do value my sovereignty and democracy over the EU`s 30 pieces of silver.

[rjimmer]

It's not ALL about money.

[FalconFN]

Personal financial benefit. Yes that would be from trying to avoid the economic down turn that is likely to follow a brexit vote.

How brexitiers believe that the country can be better off negotiating with the EU from outside rather than in is beyond me. They must be either daft or getting have enough cash not to worry about the cost.

This is a valid point, although how much of a down turn there is likely to be and how long it would last is very far from clear. If we did leave then it is equally possible that the short term negative pressure on the economy would be offset against long term growth free from EU burdens - either forecast is really just guess work and hope as there really is no data to back up either claim. We really are sailing in uncharted waters.

[secretagentmole]

Why strange , the EU has dragged us up from a poor broken country in the 1970s to the rich country we have today. Its sheer madness to turn your back on that.

 

Just think back to the days when we had a 3 day working week and power cuts almost weekly , for one spell daily. Our country was deeply in the red , very high unemployment , high taxes , very high inflation. Now we have good wages, low inflation , full employment . Are a very grumbles we have with the EU worth the risk of returning to that. Even the wildfowling is better than it was back in the 1970s. Though the EU cant take any credit for that, or perhaps the money that went into Special areas of Conservation and special protection areas all funded by the EU have assisted in the improvment in our sport.

 

 

Ooops some of the people are easily deceived, we were the 5th largest world economy before joining the EU and are currently er, the 5th largest world economy! Done a lot for us hasn't it?

 

If being in the EU was such a good thing why did this happen?

https://www.rt.com/news/346884-switzerland-eu-membership-application-rejected/

 

The Swiss are not stupid and know a good thing when they see one, which is why they did not join!

 

 

 

I do not know why the Swiss voted not to join the EU , perhaps it was just inward looking small minded thinking rather like their banking system giving refuge to tax exiles , people who should be paying their fair share to society.

 

I have no love for the EU, infact dislike it , but you have to be in the club if you want to prosper in the modern world. It the same as if I want to go wildfowling then I have to join a wildfowling club, that is unless I am very, very rich then I can go my own way . That seem to remind me of someone else who wants to leave a club, Boris, Gould, Duncan Smith all rich and able to do their own thing regardless of the interests of the other members of the club.

 

Its time people looked away from the stupid elements of the EU. How much difference does it make to me if we cant deport some criminal ? very little , what does make a difference is that I may not have enough money to cover my bills ? A hell of a lot.

To stay in the EU ensures that is unlikely to happen, to leave means its very uncertain whether it will or will not happen.

 

Kind of forgot that the EU has not shifted the UKs position of the richest nations at all have you? I do hope that none of the criminals we are blocked from deporting attack your family too, we do not need to be a member of a club which costs us more than it benefits us!

Edited June 20, 2016 by secretagentmole

[panoma1]

Personal financial benefit. Yes that would be from trying to avoid the economic down turn that is likely to follow a brexit vote.

How brexitiers believe that the country can be better off negotiating with the EU from outside rather than in is beyond me. They must be either daft or getting have enough cash not to worry about the cost.

"Likely" you say? Surely that depends on which piece of guesswork you believe!

I would rather our country be free to negotiate deals for ourselves than have some faceless organisation with their own agenda do it for us!.....

The only people/organisations that want to "remain" are the few that are receiving grant/subsidy money from the EU................money that every UK taxpayer pays in!