Brexit - Merged Threads

[Danger-Mouse]

As I know Granett is fond of economics . . .

 

http://qz.com/721089/the-case-for-brexit/

[12gauge82]

Really interesting read DM 👍

[UKPoacher]

Very well put Neil. Especially point 3. Yorkshire has a duty to lead the UK and not use its excellence and superiority for self-serving purposes. It would be a crying shame for Yorkshire to become independent from the rest of the UK and deny them the benefits of and access to the rich culture in food, art and technology that the broad acres are renowned for.

[Savhmr]

I'm still utterly bemused why anyone still thinks that European central government democracy and centralised Federalism is healthier than UK based sovereign government. Have these people actually done any sort of in depth research into what that actually means and what we stand to lose? Forget the hype over May's snooper's charter, that's small-fry compared with the rights we all stand to lose by becoming assimilated within a federal Europe. Laws dating back to Magna Carta would be stripped from the UK for a start, particularly within the central criminal justice system that the UK operates. Habeas Corpus does not apply in continental Europe either. Fundamental protections, assumed innocence, trial by jury and the right to appear before a court have all been sacrificed on the altar of the EU superstate. That's just the tip of a very large iceberg.

 

Then there's industrial protectionism. Britain has suffered greatly over the past two decades, not from fair competition, but from protectionism and moving the goal posts when bidding for EU contracts. There are countless examples where we have crossed the finishing posts only to have the French or German governments, with the full collusion of the EU Commission, move the goal posts and invent new conditions which invalidate British contracts in favour of French or German ones (anyone remember the bendy-bus scandal for one?).

 

We have been asset stripped industrially as part of a super-state move to try and leave us no choice but to remain but to no longer be of any industrial threat. It is very convenient when looking back to see that it has helped smooth the path towards federalism, too convenient. The French have bought up countless British Utilities from water companies to power supply companies but manipulating the same EU competition laws and with EU funding and backing, yet our own monopolies and mergers commission has been powerless to prevent the whole of the South cost water companies falling to to the French, and really this is an area where the government ought to have stepped in to re-nationalise those industries. Successive UK governments have acted too slow to protect our national industrial interests and as a result we have lost everything from our car industries to our steel industries to the companies that supply our water, our light, our heating. It has been insidious and all the time Europe protects its own and builds its industrial strength, especially Germany who have seen the most remarkable post war industrial growth of any nation. Had we stayed within a common market and had Bliar not signed away so much that Thatcher won back from that idiot Heath and subsequent labour governments, then the EU would have looked possibly a little different today. That or we'd have left long ago.

 

What does it take to get through to some people so hell bent on destroying UK democracy and traditions, our identity and the protection of our remaining industry that they'd rather sell out to federalism, burn the Union Jack in favour of the blue flag and stars, and these people purport to be loyal Britons? Really? It's about high time that those hell bent on a European superstate future packed their bags and moved to mainland continental Europe and left the UK to re-build itself. Oh, and close the door behind yourselves and don't come crawling back when the EU implodes. It is good enough for you now, then it will be plenty good enough for you then. Wake up and see the truth. The UK is not anti-European...the grief we all shared with our French brothers and sisters after the terrible atrocities of the past few days show that. We are though very anti-EU government which is nothing but a deeply corrupt and delusional group of unemployable super-state federalists.

 

As someone who is "half Yorkshire", can I add my name to the list of creating a Yorkshire super-state? We could have a UK centralised government held at the George and Dragon at Hudswell. That's a good old fashioned British pub and pub name, perhaps we can adopt the pub sign as our national flag?

Edited July 16, 2016 by Savhmr

[Vince Green]

The only region of the country that could become financially independent is London and the SE. Didn't the Monty Python do a thing about Yorkshire independence calling it the Land of Hecky Thump? You can have independence as long as we can have our Railway Museum back

 

I'm still utterly bemused why anyone still thinks that European central government democracy and centralised Federalism is healthier than UK based sovereign government. Have these people actually done any sort of in depth research into what that actually means and what we stand to lose? Forget the hype over May's snooper's charter, that's small-fry compared with the rights we all stand to lose by becoming assimilated within a federal Europe. Laws dating back to Magna Carta would be stripped from the UK for a start, particularly within the central criminal justice system that the UK operates. Habeas Corpus does not apply in continental Europe either. Fundamental protections, assumed innocence, trial by jury and the right to appear before a court have all been sacrificed on the altar of the EU superstate. That's just the tip of a very large iceberg.

 

Then there's industrial protectionism. Britain has suffered greatly over the past two decades, not from fair competition, but from protectionism and moving the goal posts when bidding for EU contracts. There are countless examples where we have crossed the finishing posts only to have the French or German governments, with the full collusion of the EU Commission, move the goal posts and invent new conditions which invalidate British contracts in favour of French or German ones (anyone remember the bendy-bus scandal for one?).

 

We have been asset stripped industrially as part of a super-state move to try and leave us no choice but to remain but to no longer be of any industrial threat. It is very convenient when looking back to see that it has helped smooth the path towards federalism, too convenient. The French have bought up countless British Utilities from water companies to power supply companies but manipulating the same EU competition laws and with EU funding and backing, yet our own monopolies and mergers commission has been powerless to prevent the whole of the South cost water companies falling to to the French, and really this is an area where the government ought to have stepped in to re-nationalise those industries. Successive UK governments have acted too slow to protect our national industrial interests and as a result we have lost everything from our car industries to our steel industries to the companies that supply our water, our light, our heating. It has been insidious and all the time Europe protects its own and builds its industrial strength, especially Germany who have seen the most remarkable post war industrial growth of any nation. Had we stayed within a common market and had Bliar not signed away so much that Thatcher won back from that idiot Heath and subsequent labour governments, then the EU would have looked possibly a little different today. That or we'd have left long ago.

 

What does it take to get through to some people so hell bent on destroying UK democracy and traditions, our identity and the protection of our remaining industry that they'd rather sell out to federalism, burn the Union Jack in favour of the blue flag and stars, and these people purport to be loyal Britons? Really? It's about high time that those hell bent on a European superstate future packed their bags and moved to mainland continental Europe and left the UK to re-build itself. Oh, and close the door behind yourselves and don't come crawling back when the EU implodes. It is good enough for you now, then it will be plenty good enough for you then. Wake up and see the truth. The UK is not anti-European...the grief we all shared with our French brothers and sisters after the terrible atrocities of the past few days show that. We are though very anti-EU government which is nothing but a deeply corrupt and delusional group of unemployable super-state federalists.

 

As someone who is "half Yorkshire", can I add my name to the list of creating a Yorkshire super-state? We could have a UK centralised government held at the George and Dragon at Hudswell. That's a good old fashioned British pub and pub name, perhaps we can adopt the pub sign as our national flag?

Dead on (apart from the Yorkshire bit)

Edited July 16, 2016 by Vince Green

[12gauge82]

My biggest fear with brexit, in the short term, is losing the current monopoly we seem to have on the banking sector within the EU. Our manufacturing industries have fallen to practically nothing and building the country's economy back up if we lost revenue from the banking sector could take a long time. With that said I'm still currently in no doubt brexit was right for the uk. Anyone with knowledge in this area views or opinions?

[Gordon R]

Savhmr - nothing to argue with. Even as a Lancastrian, I don't begrudge you the Railway Museum at York.

 

Anyone who has tasted proper Yorkshire (fried in beef dripping) fish and chips would back the move for Leeds to become the capital of UK. I think a Yorkshire super state would just be a small step too far.

[guest1957]

I'll just leave this here for some comic relief: http://m.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/britain-to-get-absolutely-everything-it-wants-from-brexit-negotiations-20160715110899

[Gordon R]

Are Granett and Nathan Muir the same person? I have never seen them on-line at the exact same moment.

[Savhmr]

Savhmr - nothing to argue with. Even as a Lancastrian, I don't begrudge you the Railway Museum at York.

 

Anyone who has tasted proper Yorkshire (fried in beef dripping) fish and chips would back the move for Leeds to become the capital of UK. I think a Yorkshire super state would just be a small step too far.

 

Aye, but a Yorkshire Supper State is another thing entirely

[oowee]

 

Yes, you are.....600,000 were "mistakenly" allowed to vote!

Evidence please. I am aware of some postal votes sent out by mistake but I have nt seen anything on this scale.

[Danger-Mouse]

Back of the queue said Obama. Hmmm seems the truth is completely the opposite.

 

"BELEAGUERED European Union (EU) chiefs were hit with a double-whammy today as the US cooled its interest in a trans-Atlantic trade deal without Britain and a blundering bureaucrat risked stoking tensions with China. American officials openly expressed frustration with Brussels over “painfully slow” negotiations on a proposed tariff-free agreement, hinting that the Brexit vote made the whole charade far less worthwhile to Washington. . .

 

Today it emerged that the EU’s beleaguered Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) has been placed under threat by the Brexit vote, with a senior US official comparing a Europe without Britain to an America without California.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/690046/European-Union-America-US-cools-TTIP-deal-Donald-Tusk-insults-China-Brexit-trade

[panoma1]

When I voted in the EU Referendum I voted "out" I did not vote for a "conditional" out!!

If the rest of the EU (led by Germany and the French) want to "bite off their noses to spite their faces" and try to play play hardball.....well so can the UK, non EU countries are falling over themselves to negotiate trade deals, it's about time the UK leadership showed the gonads the country has already shown by voting to leave the EU........seized the initiative and told the EU what our demands are............if they don't agree well...............we won't agree with any of their demands either, what are they gonna do? Start another war?

[UKPoacher]

When I voted in the EU Referendum I voted "out" I did not vote for a "conditional" out!!

If the rest of the EU (led by Germany and the French) want to "bite off their noses to spite their faces" and try to play play hardball.....well so can the UK, non EU countries are falling over themselves to negotiate trade deals, it's about time the UK leadership showed the gonads the country has already shown by voting to leave the EU........seized the initiative and told the EU what our demands are............if they don't agree well...............we won't agree with any of their demands either, what are they gonna do? Start another war?

 

It wouldn't come to that. 20% of all German car production is exported to the UK along with machinery and other industrial goods. Italy supplies £millions of domestic white goods and footwear. Spain has a thriving trade selling fresh fruit and veg' to the UK and the French supply virtually all the UK's milk and also do a fair trade in cars. These countries are not going to let an idealism such as free movement interfere with their trade. The EU has been wagging the dog for too long. Now the dog is starting to assert itself and as we have already seen, the Yanks and Aussies are already coming to terms with the reality of trading with the UK.

[Vince Green]

Canada has pitched in as well saying it wants a trade deal with the UK

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/yukon-premier-darrell-paslosk-brexit-1.3681633

Edited July 17, 2016 by Vince Green

[armsid]

_{india has been in talks for 9 yrs for trade deal with EU and could be trading with us in a year.we could do more trade with south america avast market but if we had stayed inEU would the slow pace of the trade negottiations from brussells put our economies in more decline instead weare out and that oppurtunity is ours. We should prepare our colleges to train the needed skills for surge in orders form abroad but will it happen i hope so.}

[poontang]

Canada has pitched in as well saying it wants a trade deal with the UK

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/yukon-premier-darrell-paslosk-brexit-1.3681633

 

And the Aussies.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36818055

[12gauge82]

This is all good news and confirms what the out campaign stated would happen, I am still concerned about the financial sector, what with the French trying their best to take it over and the amount its worth to our economy.

[Vince Green]

This is all good news and confirms what the out campaign stated would happen, I am still concerned about the financial sector, what with the French trying their best to take it over and the amount its worth to our economy.

Most of the City of London's business has nothing to do with the EU. It is the trusted broker for the world and the role it plays has been damaged if anything by membership of the EU who has tried to impose transaction taxes in the past (unsuccessfully).

Its role will not be diminished by Brexit, To understand its significance think of the financial equivalent of a telephone exchange. All the lines go in and all the lines go out again. Most of the transactions just pass straight through on route to the end destination.

[pinfireman]

My biggest fear with brexit, in the short term, is losing the current monopoly we seem to have on the banking sector within the EU. Our manufacturing industries have fallen to practically nothing and building the country's economy back up if we lost revenue from the banking sector could take a long time. With that said I'm still currently in no doubt brexit was right for the uk. Anyone with knowledge in this area views or opinions?

Our banking sector (i.e. The City) was huge before we joined the EU...Common Market. During the 90.s, the Germans tried to grab a huge chunk of our fiancial sector, by developing a financial sector in Frankfurt................they failed, as London is internationally renowned for expertise in this sector.....and our manufacturing sector, whilst nothing like the size it used to be, is still active. And will become more so as we move on from being strangled by EU red tape.....

Savhmr - nothing to argue with. Even as a Lancastrian, I don't begrudge you the Railway Museum at York.

 

Anyone who has tasted proper Yorkshire (fried in beef dripping) fish and chips would back the move for Leeds to become the capital of UK. I think a Yorkshire super state would just be a small step too far.

We are already a super state!

Are Granett and Nathan Muir the same person? I have never seen them on-line at the exact same moment.

Is Granett really Lord Lucan?

[pinfireman]

 

It wouldn't come to that. 20% of all German car production is exported to the UK along with machinery and other industrial goods. Italy supplies £millions of domestic white goods and footwear. Spain has a thriving trade selling fresh fruit and veg' to the UK and the French supply virtually all the UK's milk and also do a fair trade in cars. These countries are not going to let an idealism such as free movement interfere with their trade. The EU has been wagging the dog for too long. Now the dog is starting to assert itself and as we have already seen, the Yanks and Aussies are already coming to terms with the reality of trading with the UK.

New Zealand , Canada, and most importantly, China have been showing interest. India will soon follow (remember, English is the business language there, as it is across the world.)

This is all good news and confirms what the out campaign stated would happen, I am still concerned about the financial sector, what with the French trying their best to take it over and the amount its worth to our economy.

An attempt by the French is laughable! Their financial sector is tiny, and shows no sign of growing.

Most of the City of London's business has nothing to do with the EU. It is the trusted broker for the world and the role it plays has been damaged if anything by membership of the EU who has tried to impose transaction taxes in the past (unsuccessfully).

Its role will not be diminished by Brexit, To understand its significance think of the financial equivalent of a telephone exchange. All the lines go in and all the lines go out again. Most of the transactions just pass straight through on route to the end destination.

Good description!

[12gauge82]

Cheers for reply guys, has certainly put some of my concerns to bed. I'm really positive about brexit and what I feel it could allow the uk to do. I also personally feel we have honoured all those before us who paid for our freedoms and democracy in blood. I never liked May as a politician but she's making the right noises at the moment, what's people's thoughts on her at present? Do you think she's going to put our money where her mouth is?

New Zealand , Canada, and most importantly, China have been showing interest. India will soon follow (remember, English is the business language there, as it is across the world.)

 

An attempt by the French is laughable! Their financial sector is tiny, and shows no sign of growing.

 

Good description!

+1

[Danger-Mouse]

. I never liked May as a politician but she's making the right noises at the moment, what's people's thoughts on her at present? Do you think she's going to put our money where her mouth is?

+1

 

I believe she has every intention of carrying out our Brexit. She`s playing a clever game though by putting staunch Brexiteers in charge of negotiations. If everything goes well it`s her vision and choice of cabinet that allowed for the success and if it goes wrong then she can lay the blame on Davis et al.

 

And in other news it appears that Dave was correct about Turkey not joining anytime soon but not for the reasons he stated.

 

"Despite Turkey's apparent love of democracy and persistent claims that the nation could soon join the European Union, Ms Kandur revealed most Turks do not want to join the Brussels bloc.

She said: "I don't think Turkey is keen to join the EU.

"Why join a club that's failing? That's not something we would want.""

 

So a Turkey that won`t be voting for Christmas.

[Danger-Mouse]

When I voted in the EU Referendum I voted "out" I did not vote for a "conditional" out!!

If the rest of the EU (led by Germany and the French) want to "bite off their noses to spite their faces" and try to play play hardball.....well so can the UK, non EU countries are falling over themselves to negotiate trade deals, it's about time the UK leadership showed the gonads the country has already shown by voting to leave the EU........seized the initiative and told the EU what our demands are............if they don't agree well...............we won't agree with any of their demands either, what are they gonna do? Start another war?

 

The fact we`ll be negotiationg with individual governments rather than the commission will give us a lot of bargaining power. As we said during the referendum Germany won`t stand for tariffs on their motor industry and the French will still want to sell us their wine and cheese. I believe we have a very good chance of negotiating a very good deal.

[UKPoacher]

 

The fact we`ll be negotiationg with individual governments rather than the commission will give us a lot of bargaining power. As we said during the referendum Germany won`t stand for tariffs on their motor industry and the French will still want to sell us their wine and cheese. I believe we have a very good chance of negotiating a very good deal.

 

And Obama's favour to Dave was saying that the UK would be at the back of the queue regards trade deals with the US when in fact 1/4 of everything they sell to the EU goes to the UK. Already the words of Mr. President are being overturned.