JDog Posted August 14, 2016 Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 Matone, if the employers cared not a jot about the moors they would not employ gamekeepers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 14, 2016 Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 One step forward and two back....again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted August 14, 2016 Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 Matone, if the employers cared not a jot about the moors they would not employ gamekeepers. You are entitled to that opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 14, 2016 Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 Unfortunately this is a fight that should have been heavily funded by the wealthy members of the shooting community for the last 30 years or so but most of them don`t really give a stuff about grouse shooting or anything else ,other than themselves . That we now see ourselves on the back foot ,so to speak ,is no great surprise. Moorkeepers and gamekeepers in general,have far more passion for their ground and birds than any of their employers. Whatever we think of the antis ,they are passionate for their cause. Do you actually realise how much it costs to own and run a grouse moor. Sorry to disillusion you but you have to be passionate about grouse shooting to pump that sort of cash into it without any guarantee that you will even have sufficient surplus to shoot one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted August 14, 2016 Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 (edited) Unfortunately this is a fight that should have been heavily funded by the wealthy members of the shooting community for the last 30 years or so but most of them don`t really give a stuff about grouse shooting or anything else ,other than themselves . That we now see ourselves on the back foot ,so to speak ,is no great surprise. Moorkeepers and gamekeepers in general,have far more passion for their ground and birds than any of their employers. Whatever we think of the antis ,they are passionate for their cause. I also think ur wrong. Do u actually know any moorland owners with large grouse shoots? Most of the 1's i know are very decent folk, almost every owner i've ever met has been very knowledegable and passionate about it (sure some keepers would say too knowledgable when they try to tell them which drives they should be doing) Some are complete snobs but are so well bred and rich they don't have to prove it or boast about it if u know wot i mean. Not like some of the noveua? rich types Slightly different in eng but I can think of quite a few moors employing grouse keepers that will realistically will never shoot grouse, but still pay there wages. The vast majority of moors in scotland will not make money even some of the big ones, yet owners still spend the cash and employ keepers and all the expenses that means houses, motors, atvs, argos etc I do a bit of picking up and beating on various moors from N eng right up to N scot if i can fit them in, and by in large the people who shot grouse are far more knowledegable shots than most guns i've experienced on lowland shoots, if they say they're is 5, 10 birds down more often than not there is. Some of the marking they do is brilliant, marking birds down within m's 200m behind butts. I usually very impressed with them. Some may claim that is the norm on lowland shoots but not any i've been to, a lot of guns have no idea how many birds they have down never mind where. Had many a long walk looking for a 'dead' or pricked bird that was never hit Edited August 14, 2016 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Done 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 I also think ur wrong. Do u actually know any moorland owners with large grouse shoots? Most of the 1's i know are very decent folk, almost every owner i've ever met has been very knowledegable and passionate about it (sure some keepers would say too knowledgable when they try to tell them which drives they should be doing) Some are complete snobs but are so well bred and rich they don't have to prove it or boast about it if u know wot i mean. Not like some of the noveua? rich types Slightly different in eng but I can think of quite a few moors employing grouse keepers that will realistically will never shoot grouse, but still pay there wages. The vast majority of moors in scotland will not make money even some of the big ones, yet owners still spend the cash and employ keepers and all the expenses that means houses, motors, atvs, argos etc I do a bit of picking up and beating on various moors from N eng right up to N scot if i can fit them in, and by in large the people who shot grouse are far more knowledegable shots than most guns i've experienced on lowland shoots, if they say they're is 5, 10 birds down more often than not there is. Some of the marking they do is brilliant, marking birds down within m's 200m behind butts. I usually very impressed with them. Some may claim that is the norm on lowland shoots but not any i've been to, a lot of guns have no idea how many birds they have down never mind where. Had many a long walk looking for a 'dead' or pricked bird that was never hit I don't think he's disputing the costs to run a grouse moor but rather the 'fight' he is referring to is the one of PR. That's how I read it anyhow. I also think those involved are passionate about what they're doing, but the politics of shooting have increased dramatically over the last 50 years, and I think Mattone possibly believes ( as do I ) that having the wealth to indulge in grouse moors maybe isn't all it will take to ensure the survival of shooting on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brixsmaid Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Interesting, for the Guardian! https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/13/countryside-guardians-merit-praise-not-censure !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Interesting, for the Guardian! https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/13/countryside-guardians-merit-praise-not-censure !!Excellent article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Very good article but straight away anitis pointing fingers in the comments.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Excellent article. But once again the antis are in full flow in the comments section. As a result I think the overall impact of any article about grouse shooting in The Guardian is negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) One **** claims there were no hen harriers fledged on English grouse moors this year? I find that hard to believe! Perhaps she means no hen harriers were fledged on English non gamekeeper managed ex grouse moors this year?..........That I can believe! Edited August 15, 2016 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brixsmaid Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Somebody is trying a counter petition, long way to go, but every little bit (vote) helps, I hope, to catch up and overtake Packham's one! Protect grouse Moors and grouse shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Signed.. At 153 at moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 One **** claims there were no hen harriers fledged on English grouse moors this year? I find that hard to believe! Perhaps she means no hen harriers were fledged on English non gamekeeper managed ex grouse moors this year?..........That I can believe! So can I. What would there be to eat on non keepered moors where foxes, stoats and corvids run riot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Somebody is trying a counter petition, long way to go, but every little bit (vote) helps, I hope, to catch up and overtake Packham's one! Protect grouse Moors and grouse shooting Good luck with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Very good article but straight away anitis pointing fingers in the comments.... So have you replied to their comments? But once again the antis are in full flow in the comments section. As a result I think the overall impact of any article about grouse shooting in The Guardian is negative. Or you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 I don't think he's disputing the costs to run a grouse moor but rather the 'fight' he is referring to is the one of PR. That's how I read it anyhow. I also think those involved are passionate about what they're doing, but the politics of shooting have increased dramatically over the last 50 years, and I think Mattone possibly believes ( as do I ) that having the wealth to indulge in grouse moors maybe isn't all it will take to ensure the survival of shooting on them. Thankyou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 So have you replied to their comments? Or you? I dont use comments sections on internet articles. And all it will do is get childish derogatory comments back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 I have compiled a letter to the Charities Commission pointing out that the head honcho of LACS has openly lied for the sake of bias towards his agenda of ending shooting, and specifically in this instance regarding grouse shooting, by claiming that there are only two breeding pairs of HH in the UK, when in fact the RSPB estimates there to be over six hundred breeding pairs of HH in the UK. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't bothered now, as I have since discovered that the BTO has claimed that the high numbers of Lapwings, Curlews etc, as stated as present on a 'Pennines' grouse moor and verified by the BTO is in fact false. The BTO have stated those figures did not derive from them. I couldn't find any Pennine moors which had stated these figures, but after trawling social media have now discovered those figures were quoted by Ian Botham in his radio interview with Chris Packham! Much is being made of his 'lies' on the BTO's Twitter feed. The only good thing to come of the 'Ban grouse shooting' petition is that now it has topped the required 100,000, (20,000 in the space of a couple of days and still rising, and was over 108,000) last time I looked!) it will hopefully be debated in parliament, where the FACTS will be aired. I dont use comments sections on internet articles. And all it will do is get childish derogatory comments back... Well they've won then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felly100 Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 I dont use comments sections on internet articles. And all it will do is get childish derogatory comments back... That is a shame as BTL on the Guardian is excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Scully You may also wish to point out and question why has the RSPB walked away from the DEFRA Hen Harrier joint action plan having pushed so hard for government action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felly100 Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 http://www.rspb.org.uk/community/ourwork/b/martinharper/archive/2016/07/25/withdrawal-from-the-hhap.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Well they've won then. I know what you are saying, but getting into online slanging matches or putting a point of view across and just getting shouted down gains nothing. Nothing we say will change the anti's minds, that is unfortunately the sad truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felly100 Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 You're right but the vast majority of folk are fairly open minded. That's why we have to avoid coming across as loons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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